Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The Redskins stink at it. So does everybody else. I just find this fascinating so bear with me. The Cowboys stink at clock management. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/16/jason-garrett-takes-the-blame-for-cowboys-clock-management/ http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7317155/dallas-cowboys-jason-garrett-explains-late-game-clock-management-loss-arizona-cardinals The Steelers stink at clock management: http://www.steelersfever.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81726 http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/showthread.php?1016-Poor-Clock-Management-end-of-first-half The Jets stink at clock management: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/16068/rex-admits-clock-management-faux-pas http://nypost.com/2013/09/09/seconds-guessing-rex-avoids-questions-on-jets-clumsy-clock-use/ The Eagles were notoriously bad at clock management under Reid, but at least he knew the basic rules: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000245750/article/chip-kelly-ill-learn-from-clockmanagement-decision The Saints stink at clock management: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/14/4835738/nfl-2013-week-6-schedule-results-tom-brady-sean-payton-patriots-saints-eagles The Patriots stink at clock management: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4738963/belichick-brady-on-clock-management The Ravens stink at clock management: http://www.csnbaltimore.com/blog/ravens-talk/ravens-need-solve-clock-management The Colts stink at clock management: http://forums.colts.com/topic/21439-poor-clock-management-end-of-the-first-half/ I could do this for every team probably - with the possible exception of the Giants who just plain stink. So....my question is....why is this? Why is every NFL coach and QB bad at clock management? In high school, teams practice the two minute drill and real game situations. Pro teams, I assume, have access to Stanford studies on this sort of thing. Yet, every fanbase ****es about it, and the best person in the NFL at clock management seems to be Al Michaels. I tend to think clock management is simply the easiest complaint to throw at a head coach because it's something fans think they understand, and it seems so easy. It's like complaining that a QB is "not clutch" except with some 5th grade math. When I want to pretend I'm smart, I go to Pro Football Outsiders,but they don't write much about clock management except for a book review for a book I did not read: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/reviews/2004/book-review-football-clock-management Instead of yet another discussion on how Mike Shanahan screws up the ends of halfs, I would be curious to discuss why it seems like every team does this poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 It's clearly not easy. But there must be coaches that are good at. Heck, all us fans are. So, how do the good coaches do it? Who is best at it? I often agree with the announcers. I think it is a coach that just trusts his instincts. There is no magic formula. You hear things like, "we need to save a timeout to get the FG unit out (madden?)" Or "we can't score too quickly!" But that is from coaches that play afraid. The task at hand is to score, and I think you cannot over think that. Go score. If you score quick they may too and you get the ball right back. The play calling must be coordinated WRT timeout count, time left, and field position. Maybe its too much for a coach to call those plays and keep it all together. One area I have been seeing problems is end of half, we are on defense. A team is first down goal to go, 1:50 left. They run on first down for 1 yard. I often feel like it would be wise to burn a timeout on D, yet it seems most coaches don't, but a few will. Bellichek. Make the offense realize, we are going to try and score on you. Perhaps that makes a norvous OC call another run, and focus on burning our timeouts, over scoring. Pressure the offense. You may score, but be governed accordingly, I am getting that ball back with time. Why not try and eek out another possession against a team guaranteed to be in prevent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldysknzfn1 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I did not realize so many teams suck at clock management...wow... It seems to be something so elementary but I'm sure there's a lot that goes into it...I'd be curious also why teams are so bad at this... You would think at the NFL level they'd have it down to a science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 It's clearly not easy. But there must be coaches that are good at. Heck, all us fans are. Tom Coughlin is very good at it. Generally speaking, Belichick is good at it, though his team completely screwed the pooch at the end of the first half of the AFC title game last year. So...that's bad. Al Michaels is good at it, but he's an alcoholic announcer with a gambling problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I think in general if what they do works they are deemed good at it, if it doesn't they suck at it. It really is as simple as Coach Gibbs used to say, winning is the ONLY thing to make the negative talk go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Not really interested in how other teams/ staff struggle in this regard. Just my own. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 You hear things like, "we need to save a timeout to get the FG unit out (madden?)" Or "we can't score too quickly!" But that is from coaches that play afraid. The task at hand is to score, and I think you cannot over think that. Go score. If you score quick they may too and you get the ball right back. The play calling must be coordinated WRT timeout count, time left, and field position. Maybe its too much for a coach to call those plays and keep it all together. I think the main issue in the NFL is the number of mistakes made on every play - even for the good teams. In baseball, there is no clock so the only decision for a manager is getting the most favorable matchups in high leverage situations. In basketball, unless you are a truly terrible team, you generally can get the right execution of a play in those situations. So, you can play the timeout-foul game and be confident that you are going to get something resembling the shot you want. You can coach pro-actively. In football, I think every coach coaches every play with the idea that 20 things can go wrong and 15 will. So, it becomes a situation of managing mistakes. I'm sure every coach in a First and Goal from the 1, down 5 with a minute to go, lives in abject fear of a holding penalty. So...while it would make sense to milk the clock and score with under 15 seconds, they don't want to give their team multiple opportunities to screw up. In general, I think fear is the primary motivation of coaches at the NFL level - moreso than in any other sport. It's hard to do three-dimensional thinking or use advanced game strategies when you don't trust your #2 receiver to break of his route if he's the hot read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I think it helps a coach to run an offense that is experienced in hurry up. NE always seems ahead of the curve. How many times have we seem them hustle down the field, and then sure enough, there is Tom Brady milking down that play clock. A team must be able to equally play fast and slow. That really helps a coach appear good at time management. Belly simply practices and employs hurry up. We are complete noobs in running hurry up and struggle in time management. I think there is something there. Hurry up for us, is one no huddle play. Baby steps. Sadly, our team seems very poorly run in the 2 minute drill. Last year, it always appeared to be RG3 heroics that saved the day. I do not pin any failures at all on him. Heck he is waiting for Kyle to call in every play. I think a coach that trusts his QB to call a play or two saves a lot of time, which saves timeouts, which in itself should improve clock management. GIve the kid the keys to the car for a drive, what do you say Mike? Just one drive. Give Garcon a chance to tell RG3 what that corner is doing mid drive, and line up in that same formation, and make them pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 It is a simple matter of mathematics Most football coaches, save for guys like Belliechick, don't have any type of math background. They are instead spending their off time at FCA conventions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 All teams have at least isolated incidents of glaring gaffes. Few teams have the consistency that we do. From not running "no huddle" or "hurry-up" or even running "sugar huddle" to letting precious time tick away. Andy Pollin brought up that Danny Smith helped out with this the last 3 years... well, it wasn't great over that time span either. What's worse with this team is that we fail to admit where we were wrong and we fail to learn from these mistakes. The excuses suck, too. The only guy consistenly worse than Shanahan at this is LSU Head Coach Les Miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Watching the game against Dallas, one clip showed Mike's neck about to explode as he was yelling at the official for a time out. Kinda funny IMO. But, during the ends of the half or end of a game, plays are called, and the results differ, then you throw in the thought of whether the coach believes/sees his QB call a TO or whether the coach needs to do it, it gets hectic down there. Of course this problem is never seen when the plays called are executed to perfection, its only when they fall short or some other incident happens which creates confusion. The Dallas game, I could have sworn I saw the clock continuing to run even after the player stepped out of bounds and during calls for TO; it was only a few seconds, but those secondfs do add up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I think the one time we had good clock management at the end of the game was when Robert's helmet receiver went out.... Ironically... Looks like a lot of impromtu "sugar huddle" and masterful presence of mind by a rookie Robert Griffin, III. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t4w_M-7Qbg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 All teams have at least isolated incidents of glaring gaffes. Few teams have the consistency that we do. From not running "no huddle" or "hurry-up" or even running "sugar huddle" to letting precious time tick away. Are you sure about this? Do you think you could post this question on a Dallas board and they would agree that SmartyPants' gaffes are isolated? It's early with Chip Kelly, but poor clock management will be mentioned in Andy Reid's obituary. So, in our division last three, 3 of the 4 coaches were apparently dreadful at this - if we agree that Shanahan is dreadful. It is a simple matter of mathematics Most football coaches, save for guys like Belliechick, don't have any type of math background. They are instead spending their off time at FCA conventions And Belichick may have cost his team a trip to the Super Bowl last year with lousy clock management. That Football Outsiders book I mentioned also refers to the Patriots screwing up in the final drive in the Super Bowl against the Rams. No one mentions that because they won the game and kicked off their dynasty. We should also mention that in that game, legendary coach and legendary broadcaster John Madden suggested that the Pats run out the clock on that last drive. So, apparently, everyone stunk at this in the 70s too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Are you sure about this? Do you think you could post this question on a Dallas board and they would agree that SmartyPants' gaffes are isolated? It's early with Chip Kelly, but poor clock management will be mentioned in Andy Reid's obituary. So, in our division last three, 3 of the 4 coaches were apparently dreadful at this - if we agree that Shanahan is dreadful. Everyone is more aware of their own mishaps and failings. Ried and Kelly are from the same cloth in that they aren't necissarily bad at "clock management", they just hate running the football and would rather run their offense. That just happens to lead to bad clock management. I've seen Garrett make some boneheaded clock management decisions as well as some pretty good ones. In Shanny's mind... he should ideally be salting the game away on the ground to end it. That's how he's made his bones in Denver and hasn't necissarily had to learn the art of clock management. And it's on display an awful lot. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Wingman Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I also think it has some to do with the players on the field. Our players never seem to run back to the line and quickly get back in formation. It's more of a no huddle then a hurry up offense. You can run no huddle but still use all the play clock to look at the defense and call audibles. This is peyton manning's style. Hurry up is more chip kelly style where you just try to get the next play off as fast as you can. We're finally starting to run a little no huddle, but not a hurry up.. if that makes sense. edit: just want to add that just because a coach knows whats going on, the players on the field cant really focus on clock management. its probably hard to relay the message to your team in the heat of the moment whats going through your head as far as what needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I'm not sure they look at the game clock as often as the play clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 In response to Skins Wingman...you would think that it would be generally easy to get the players to be "good at" two minute situations. If the coaches stress it during the week, I think the 10 guys NOT responsible for calling plays are capable of running to the new LOS and getting in a pre-determined position. From there, it's a matter of listening to/watching Griffin relay the next play. So, this comes down to the coaches or quarterback to me. Either they haven't bothered to instruct the rest of the offense of their 2-3 main responsibilities (get to the line, get lined up, look at 10) or they are the culprits (not ready to call in a play, not communicating well to the QB, the QB not quickly processing the play and communicating it to the team, etc.). If we continue to lose, I would like to see us work on things like this so that our team and our franchise QB get comfortable in quick-paced situations. It's understandable that they are rusty, but it should be ironed out this year. Hell, we might have 8 meaningless games during which to practice it. Why not get our players out of their comfort zone during a lost season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I saw recently, you guessed it, the Pats and Brady run (ok he tried to run) up to the line for the spike lee. Only it was a designed quick pass to the WR who ran out of bounds after a 5 yard gain. The corner playing off as usual late in the half / prevent was helpless. This is the type of play I just feel like we will never see from Shanahan, that its a type of vision we lack, something missing from our preparation since we rarely to never see that ingenuity. We seem to want to huddle up at every chance, even if it means we have to spike the ball. NE was able to huddle up after that very very simple play call, that Mike would consider a gimmick or risky or... lord knows what. There was literally nothing to risk there but a few seconds. Edit OK, our WR may have cut inside to gain that extra yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Edit OK, our WR may have cut inside to gain that extra yard. . I could see Moss doing his patented spin-move cutting up inside the field. I love me some Moss, but that ain't foolin' anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 . I could see Moss doing his patented spin-move cutting up inside the field. I love me some Moss, but that ain't foolin' anybody. LOL, i think we have all seen far too many WRs spacing and not getting out of bounds. Helu did a few weeks back. SM now stands for Spin Move. He spins or at least tries before every single tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think it's more consistency than anything. Every team is going to have a less than ideal clock management from time to time. It's how frequently are you having them. I'm just guessing, but I would imagine Brady/Belichek or Brees/Payton or Peyton/whomever his coach is at the time, have fewer than most. But it's not that they don't have them at all, as the OP's list clearly illustrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Wonder how much having a savvy, veteran QB changes clock management (if at all)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I assume letting the vet QB run the show saves time every single snap. It would have to improve over all time management because you can eek out an extra play or 2, presumably, if you need them. I bet a savvy rookie could do it, too. In fact, I bet they did it all through high school and college. The coach can then focus on calling timeouts, and not worry about formations personnel and getting the play in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I mean, if shanahan played some madden ... it couldn't hurt. It would only improve his time management skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 ... Pats ... Brady ... up to the line for the spike ... Only it was a designed quick pass to the WR ... That's the 'ole Dan Marino play ... circa 1992(?). That's a little risque for our Boss Hoss, Señor Mike, in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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