No More Excuses, Our Interior Oline Is Terrible

[MrJL]

You know, I didn't know us getting emotional at the right time required other teams to roll over for us.  We still beat those teams.

 

 

 

I don't believe the read option disguised the flaw with this O-line last year, because it's essentially the same as the one the year before, which wasn't this bad.  But it might be time to see if Gettis can supplant Chester on the line.  I usually have  hard time picking out problems with linemen.  Chester's problems last night were easy to see.

[redskins4ever28]

We have to look at downsides and bright sides:

Downsides; oline still kinda sux, rg3 is not sting well but him playing bad is still better than 50% ofthe league, we need a number 1 receiver(would love Hakeem nicks through fa), our defense didnt play bad but Amerson got hurt n he will be a future stud so sux he's hurt, special teams is abysmal, we have no 1st rd pick

Brigtsidea; rg3 still just came off an acl injury and he's slowly getting his speed back but needs to learn to look through progressions, Morris is the man, Jordan Reed is amazing, and finally if rg3 doesn't work out which I think this seasons lost but we will see a lot of promise next year, then Captain Kirk will e fantastic

[WinSkinsWin83]

Yall talking about Mike getting a g and rt in FA. Yall know he gonna get anything but a good guard or tackle. Thats not his MO. He stuck in 95 and 96. Small no name olinemen is his fancy.

[RemoveSnyder]

Well, an easy switch, midseason, is to give Compton a crack, some snaps at RG. I always felt that he had some size more suited for bulk play on the interior.

[paloosa]

Our Oline isn't that much smaller than the starting Olines of the other teams that run the RO. Williams, Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, Chester, and Polumbus is 6-5 328, 6-2 284, 6-3 304, 6-3 309, 6-8 305. The 49ers is Staley, Lupati, Goodwin, Boone, and Davis is 6-5 315, 6-5 331, 6-3 318, 6-8 300, 6-5, 323. The Seahawks is McQuistan, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, and Bowie is 6-6 315, 6-5 321, 6-5 305, 6-5, 298, 6-4 332. The 49ers line is much heavier and slightly taller overall and so is the Seahawks.

 

The Denver Broncos Super Bowl back to back Championships in 1997 and 1998 had the same line except for two changes. The 1997 squad was Zimmerman, Schlereth, Nalen, Habib, and Jones which was 6-6 294, 6-3 282, 6-3 286, 6-7 315, and 6-5 290. The only changes were Swayne for Zimmerman and Neil for Habib and they were 6-5 295 and 6-2 283. But with all that our Oline is lighter than other lines which is a deterent only in how they are taught how to block. Our Oline did not change from last year and we were able to block just fine. So what happened? Did they forget to block? Pass blocking last year was not that bad. Did our Oline really get exposed or do we just need an upgrade at the interior line?

[Leonard Washington]

I don't buy the strength excuse.  They blocked against Detroit adequately.   Defenses have found a strategy to combat the oline's strength.  They just attack the middle of the formation.  This prevents a lineman from getting to his assigned block and/or creates a lane to either run down the play or harass the QB.

[WinSkinsWin83]

Our Oline isn't that much smaller than the starting Olines of the other teams that run the RO. Williams, Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, Chester, and Polumbus is 6-5 328, 6-2 284, 6-3 304, 6-3 309, 6-8 305. The 49ers is Staley, Lupati, Goodwin, Boone, and Davis is 6-5 315, 6-5 331, 6-3 318, 6-8 300, 6-5, 323. The Seahawks is McQuistan, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, and Bowie is 6-6 315, 6-5 321, 6-5 305, 6-5, 298, 6-4 332. The 49ers line is much heavier and slightly taller overall and so is the Seahawks.

The Denver Broncos Super Bowl back to back Championships in 1997 and 1998 had the same line except for two changes. The 1997 squad was Zimmerman, Schlereth, Nalen, Habib, and Jones which was 6-6 294, 6-3 282, 6-3 286, 6-7 315, and 6-5 290. The only changes were Swayne for Zimmerman and Neil for Habib and they were 6-5 295 and 6-2 283. But with all that our Oline is lighter than other lines which is a deterent only in how they are taught how to block. Our Oline did not change from last year and we were able to block just fine. So what happened? Did they forget to block? Pass blocking last year was not that bad. Did our Oline really get exposed or do we just need an upgrade at the interior line?

Our Linemen are small. Most of these dudes probably had to gain bulk to get to their weight now. I rather draft someone 330 and get him to shed pounds. He can still have power but some added light feet with weight loss.

[RandyHolt]

Not much smaller.... is still smaller. We have a guard at 284!  That limits what we can do. Don't over think it.

 

Can we measure where the girth is of an OL? Bugel liked the big ole butt, oh yeah.

 

I think graders are built lower, speed guys more have... chicken legs lets call it.

 

Where do our OL get their power. Do they have power... can they push that sled down field, or are we the worst in the league at it.

 

I assume all schools of OL are taught to block with leverage but assuming is the mother of all screwups.

 

Exactly what does Mike look for in an OL, and weight aside, why can they not move DL straight down field. Can Licht never get leverage on his guy?

 

I want to see a grader tried over Licht.  Lets summon LeRib all 350+ of him. Can our interior pass pro / straight run blocking get any worse with him in there? If so, it cannot be much worse. I think its worth the risk.

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

I can work with Williams, Kory, Chester and even Polumbus to an extent but Montgomery is just bad beyond belief. He allows so much interior pressure right up the gut that it compromises the entire line. Then he has trouble getting to the next level to make plays (The QB draw where he fails to get the LB) As much as I would like them to get a RT in free agency to replace Polumbus I think they need to put their resources into signing a Center.

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

And RG3 is terrible too

 

I think there is a RG3 thread for all you idiotic RG3 trolls to go and whine about how you don't like RG3 because he isn't a good old boy pocket passer and how you wish Kirk Cousins was the starter. Blah Blah Blah

[Mocountyskins]

Not just our O-line but also our lack of weapons.

[TheGoodBits]

Didn't Ribs step in and play pretty well last year for a game? I know he looked like crap in the preseason, I know he probably looks like crap in practice all the time, but maybe the guy is a gamer. Or maybe he's really just a 3rd round bust, who knows. He was taken on upside with a questionable work ethic so this shouldn't be shocking, but maybe a shot at the starting line up is what he needs for motivation. Can't be much worse than Lichtensteiger getting pushed back on every play he doesn't let his assignment run right past him.

[maskedsuperstar]

Well, nobody was complaining about the OL last year, when they were mauling defenses. When they get back to executing, then you'll see everything else work. Comes down to executing.

[RandyHolt]

I feel like they are executing. We are the exact same starting 11 as last year. Same coaches. 

 

I think the problem is that defenses just bull rush every time. If its a pass, great. If its a run, they don't let our mobile OL just run wherever they want. They are pushing them into the backfield. Our zone stretch runs wide aren't nearly as clean. That cutback lane is not clean. Morris has probably been stopped by one tackler more than all of last year. He is not getting up to speed before being engaged.

 

If I am wrong so be it. But lets speculate that I am correct.  Lets say defenses are simply attacking more / reading less.

 

Will better execution offset that?  Or, does Mike need to rethink rolling in the modern day game with a 284 pound guard. Or does Kyle need to adjust his play calling to limit plays that expose a very lightweight G.

 

About Monty getting blown up... I suspect it is not easy to play next to who must be the lightest guard in the NFL.

[Chachie]

OK shows me where Rg3 hit a wide open received oh wait he missed them all. Show me where his accuracy and decision making have improved in 5 games oh wait they haven't.. oh boy he can out run a fat d linemen. Yaaaay..he has shown no provresst and appears to be a can newton more then Aaron Rodgers...

 

 

 

Come back when you learn to spell and we'll take your unsubstantiated, accusational psycho-babble into consideration. 

[RedskinsInFebruary]

Step 1: Draft RG3

Step 2: Acquire OL to protect him and open running lanes while he develops.

OOPS!

[maskedsuperstar]

You have something there. When was the last time it didn't take a late season rally to get into the playoffs.

Giants did it. Lived by it.

[maskedsuperstar]

Its funny how fans have turned on RG3. Its so funny that its ridiculous. But remember all the finger pointing now. It just proves that many fans don't know the answer. Its easier to blame.

There was no way, coming into the season, DC weren't coming after RG3. It was going to happen. Period. He hasn't been a threat until this past Sunday night. RG3 is the most blitzed QB in the league. Why do you think? DC aren't stupid.

When RG3 is a threat again, teams will back off. Its been tough running the ball. Absolutely! But does the OL really suck? I mean, they are 5th in the league in terms of sacks given up with 10. Luck, Kapernick, and Wilson have hit the ground more. 1-4 sucks! I understand that.

Relax! Be patient!

Skins actually moved the ball well Sunday night but failed to take advantage. 2nd and long consistently will kill any offense.

[maskedsuperstar]

Not much smaller.... is still smaller. We have a guard at 284!  That limits what we can do. Don't over think it.

 

Can we measure where the girth is of an OL? Bugel liked the big ole butt, oh yeah.

 

I think graders are built lower, speed guys more have... chicken legs lets call it.

 

Where do our OL get their power. Do they have power... can they push that sled down field, or are we the worst in the league at it.

 

I assume all schools of OL are taught to block with leverage but assuming is the mother of all screwups.

 

Exactly what does Mike look for in an OL, and weight aside, why can they not move DL straight down field. Can Licht never get leverage on his guy?

 

I want to see a grader tried over Licht.  Lets summon LeRib all 350+ of him. Can our interior pass pro / straight run blocking get any worse with him in there? If so, it cannot be much worse. I think its worth the risk.

The problem the is Skins haven't run enough. This is the same team that led the league in rushing last year, with same OL. Zone blocking scheme is not about overpowering the defensive line. The OL is smaller because the scheme is about speed and the running back making one cut.

[DM72]

Giants did it. Lived by it.

And you think what the Giants did is the norm? Go right ahead and keep.relying on late season magic.

[maskedsuperstar]

Read option and RG3's legs save this line.  Remember this is the same line that Beck was sacked 12 times in 1 game. 

Also the same line that led the league in rushing and is currently 5th in sacks given up.

[lavar1156]

Any chance we can try Gettis and/or LeRibeus? They can't be any worse.

[Going Commando]

And it's because Shanahan BUILT the line that way.

 

Cheaper to build it that way.  And our scheme is one of the few that can make it work with undersized OLs at all.  I'm not sure it's totally accurate to say we're undersized.  Gettis and Lichtensteiger are smaller, but everyone else is over 300 pounds.  But I would definitely agree that we're underpowered.  No power players and no remarkable athletes aside from Trent, who is spectacularly different from the others.  We're not necessarily quick either, you saw our guards struggling to pull and they got beat to the point of attack by the Cowboys players.  You saw them strungle with interior speed and commit holds and false starts.

 

We've had limited resources and we've spent most of them at QB, OT, WR, and on the defense. I don't really have a problem with that, except we've made mistakes and haven't gotten the best return on investment at those positions.

 

We've probably spent more on the QB position than any other team during the last four offseasons.  McNabb + RGIII was a boatload of draft picks.  Then we spent a high pick on Trent and gave up some draft picks for Jammal Brown and that didn't work out.  Spent a lot of our FA money on defensive linemen and only Cofield has worked out really well.  Spent a lot of the rest of our money on the receivers and secondary, and only Garcon has really shined from that entire crop of DBs and WRs.  We spent a second rounder on a DE that we've gotten nothing from.  And we just spent a lot of draft picks on DBs and we probably won't see a proper return on that investment for a few years.

 

We've spent draft picks on the linebackers, and that's worked fairly well for us.  Though our work isn't done and the ILBs need work moving forward.

 

I still think that, outside of Kerrigan, our 2011 draft class was a failure.  One big sad missed opportunity.  We picked up a lot of draft picks to fill in all of these supposedly huge holes in the roster... and ended up with a lot of low quality depth chart filler that we're looking to upgrade as soon as possible.

 

You're never going to fix everything.  But we've just made too many mistakes with our personnel, been simultaneously screwed over by the NFL in unprecedented fashion, and we've paid the price by having to go cheap at spots and live with lesser talent.  Now our results aren't very good and it's a major disappointment.  I truly believe our problems are mostly personnel issues and we're not going to be able to start addressing them until the offseason.

[Leonard Washington]

Also the same line that led the league in rushing and is currently 5th in sacks given up.

They still weren't very good then or now.   

[Going Commando]

Yep....and he was mistaken.

 

I think he's gotten what he paid for, and that's fine.  LG-RG are all passable players that are making fair money and when everyone else is clicking, they do enough.

 

But he would have had much more money/picks to spend if he hadn't made so many mistakes at almost all the other position groups.  Too many missed opportunities and poorly spent draft picks in his first three offseasons here, too many FAs that haven't worked out as well as we've needed them to.  Didn't help that our two most talented and expensively acquired players when he got here were almost immediately burned out--Haynesworth and Landry.  We've went through almost 100% turnover within two years or so.  Plus traded off a bunch of picks, many of which on bad deals.  AND we got docked 18 million in cap money the past two offseasons.  Sucks.