Nat'ljournal: North East Colorado Is Getting Ready To Secede [From The State Of Colorado, To Form A New State]

[Ellis]

This story has been making the rounds this week and I figured it was time to get the discussion going on ES.

 

In his last speech to the United States Senate, future short-lived President of the Confederate States of America Jefferson Davis, D-Miss., held up the honor of secession. "This is done, not in hostility to others; not to injure any section of the country, not even for our own pecuniary benefit," Davis declared in January 1861, "but from the high and solemn motive of defending and protecting the rights we inherited, and which it is our duty to transmit unshorn to our children."

Nearly a dozen counties in northeastern Colorado are now ready to take on that high and solemn motive.

On Monday, the city commissioners of Colorado's Weld and Phillips counties voted to approve a ballot measure asking voters if they want to secede from Colorado and create a 51st state. The idea to split from Colorado, which began to take root at a June conference, could include several other counties in the north of the state. Three other counties have already approved the ballot question, and three more will vote on the issue this week.

After the vote, Weld County Commissioner Sean Conway quoted Mahatma Gandhi: "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight for you, and then you win." Commission Chairman Bill Garcia, echoed a more recent leader before voting: "Si se puede—yes, we can." The Weld commissioners were unanimous in their decision to approve the ballot measure.

 

More at link: http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/northeastern-colorado-is-getting-ready-to-secede-20130820

 

Must watch video, details the motivation behind the secession.

[The Evil Genius]

So the counties in question are: Cheyenne, Kit Carson, Lincoln, Logan, Morgan, Phillips, Sedgwick, Washington, Weld and Yuma.

 

Here is a population map of Colorado (click to make it larger).

 

While I understand their concerns about not getting their way in a Dem controlled (Denver controlled) state..I don't think secession will ever be the right choice in this time. Nor will the State and/or US government ever allow it.

 

Have fun grandstanding for absolutely nothing, guys. 

 

[twa]

If population is a factor we need to merge a few 

 

I see this as nothing but a protest vote

[The Evil Genius]

Well, they would likely have the population of Rhode Island or smaller. So yeah, it's kind of pointless to secede because your 10 counties aren't getting their way in a state of 64 counties. 

[Rocky21]

When I first read the headline I was thinking secede from the U.S. instead of secede from the rest of the state of Colorado. 

[Kilmer17]

There's a process in place for this to happen.  Good luck to them.  There's a better chance of Texas seceding from the US than North Colorado becoming a state.  But hey, whatever makes your collie jolly!

Constitutional question- Could other counties from other states join them and form a single, non continuous state?

[PleaseBlitz]

My only thought is that I hope it works, but only because I would like there to be a precedence set so that NoVa can secede from the rest of Virginia, which I am highly in favor of, primarily for economic reasons.  

[Ellis]

My opinion... is that this is being driven by powerful financial forces in the fracking industry.   There are similar "grass roots" efforts occurring in western MD counties.

[PokerPacker]

My only thought is that I hope it works, but only because I would like there to be a precedence set so that NoVa can secede from the rest of Virginia, which I am highly in favor of, primarily for economic reasons.

Or at the very least, put the fear of secession into Richmond so they'll quit taking all of our money.

[The Evil Genius]

I think NorCal/SoCal is worthy of discussion too.

 

Of course, SoCal wouldn't have any drinking water left afterwards..so that might not be so beneficial to them.

 

[PleaseBlitz]

I'll let your initial post slide TEG, just b/c you are a Mountaineer.

[The Evil Genius]

I'll let your initial post slide TEG, just b/c you are a Mountaineer.

 

I've got reading comprehension issues today.

[sacase]

Well I think their thing is that they are not being represented in the government, which is a concern. People want to feel that their concerns matter.  Now if I was a DC resident I would be championing this right along with the Colorado folks. This is DC's best chance to get Statehood. Make a deal that Northern Colorado would become a State as long as DC becomes one. The way politics are right now, that's the only way this will happen as each part will feel that they get 2 senators each and an equal amount of congressmen. However you would probably have the north Colorado people become over represented since there are less than 100,000 people in those countries. So with all that said, the only outcome that I can see happening is either they stay apart of Colorado or they get annexed by Wyoming.

[PleaseBlitz]

In a perfect world, I think we should split NoVa and RoVa and NorCal and SoCal, combine North and South Dakota, make Alaska a territory like Puerto Rico, grant statehood to DC, kick Dallas out (just Dallas, not the rest of Texas), and put Philadelphia on probation with anti-asshole therapy a condition of its being allowed to stay, 

[Bang]

Well, the problem with that sacase is that they are getting representation, just not the representation they want, which is a result of our democratic process.

rather than try to win the vote, they seem to be more inclined to quit and go home.

That doesn't smell too savory.

Besides, as someone else pointed out, i'd be VERY leery of who is actually pulling the strings, and why.

 

if the majority of citizens are for it, and it's legal and peaceful, then more power to them. But to cry secession simply because their side loses elections..   that could come off a bit whiny.

 

~Bang

[Forehead]

One word made that Ghandi quote all wrong.  Isn't it "Then they fight you" not "then they fight for you?"  Man, if step three was people fighting for him, Ghandi's job would have been much easier.  I'd be proud to be led by Commissioner Conway!

[The Evil Genius]

These 10 counties get representation. They just get outvoted by the other 80+% of the state's population.

[sacase]

Well, the problem with that sacase is that they are getting representation, just not the representation they want, which is a result of our democratic process.

rather than try to win the vote, they seem to be more inclined to quit and go home.

That doesn't smell too savory.

Besides, as someone else pointed out, i'd be VERY leery of who is actually pulling the strings, and why.

 

if the majority of citizens are for it, and it's legal and peaceful, then more power to them. But to cry secession simply because their side loses elections..   that could come off a bit whiny.

 

~Bang

 

I actually think that they have issues. These are very rural counties. Some of them have less than 3000 people in them. All of the counties in total have less than 100,000 people.

 

I think what we are going to see more and more is that cities are dominating whole states. That's because more and more people are living in large cities. People who live in the country are not being represented as people in the cities have more representation. There tends to be higher education and more progressive ideas in the cities. So you have a situation like they have in Colorado where the city of Denver pretty much dictates what's going to happen in the State regardless of the concerns of the rural countries who have their own concerns. This is going to cause major problems in the future and there is no easy solution. You can't give the rural people more representation as they will be over represented and have to much influence for a small population. I don't know what the answer is for this other than the status quo. I suppose you could give every county a vote, but again you would have a county of 3000 people having the same influence as a county of 1 million people, which isn't right either.

 

Which leads to another question. Are we becoming to big to govern effectively?

 

Also rural people and city people think very different.

[Ellis]

In the video, the gentleman detailed that the districts are gerrymandered to creep in to highly populated areas where a Dem can get more votes than a Republican so no matter how hard the rural areas tries to have a voice, they can't beat the numbers game.

[Larry]

Yes, the cities dominate the political landscape.

But, shouldn't they? After all, they dominate the population, too. And they dominate the economy.

(And, in my experience, while the cities do dominate, politically, the rural areas are disproportionately subsidized. IMO, partially, that's because the rural, the underpopulated, the poorer, areas of a country/state/whatever are the places that NEED the support more.

There's a topic that comes up, often, in political discussions, about some states in the US receiving more from the feds than others. And people love to blame said disparities on political parties. But, part of the reason for that disparity is the relative incomes of the areas.

(And I think that's a legitimate way to distribute governmental support and resources. I think that part of the way to elevate a society is by trying to raise the lowest segments of that society. And if said people happen to be Republican or poor or less educated or whatever, then that's the way it should go.)

[Kilmer17]

States and Federal Govts all need to add districts and representatives.

[Larry]

In the video, the gentleman detailed that the districts are gerrymandered to creep in to highly populated areas where a Dem can get more votes than a Republican so no matter how hard the rural areas tries to have a voice, they can't beat the numbers game.

A legitimate complaint. (Assuming it's true.)

Gerrymandering sucks.

Really wish there was some way to make districting impartial. I'd love the idea of, say, mandating that the state go to Google Districts, or some such. Have districts drawn by a computer which is not allowed to be told how a particular neighborhood votes.

(Granted, proportional representation can at least alleviate some of that problem, by eliminating districts completely.)

States and Federal Govts all need to add districts and representatives.

 

Yeah, more politicians would make things better.

[Kilmer17]

A legitimate complaint. (Assuming it's true.)

Gerrymandering sucks.

Really wish there was some way to make districting impartial. I'd love the idea of, say, mandating that the state go to Google Districts, or some such. Have districts drawn by a computer which is not allowed to be told how a particular neighborhood votes.

(Granted, proportional representation can at least alleviate some of that problem, by eliminating districts completely.)

 

Yeah, more politicians would make things better.

Not more politicians, more elected officials.  Increasing the number of Congressional and statewide house districts would DECREASE the power and influence of career policiticians and allow for more moderate people making decisions AND better represenation for the constituents.

[@DCGoldPants]

I do wonder how states would be set up today if everybody had a vote on different proposals. I think in the DMV you'd see Western MD break off and join maybe WV. The rest might join with NoVa and create a new state with D.C. included.

 

The Dakota's might join together. Cali might split. Texas too. East and West PA? I don't know.

Either way, if people really want to break off. Then all the power to them. If its another astroturfed movement....then cram it. 

[Stadium-Armory]

This is not happening, and is getting absolutely zero coverage locally because nobody really wants it.