btfoom Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Gee, this looks like the same information somebody pointed at, recently, when it was revealed that GASES (which travel faster than liquids) HAVE made it to the drinking water. Ummm, are there times when liquids travel faster than gasses? What does it mean that gasses travel 'faster' than liquids?? Hint: Not at all pressures/tempertures/states are the same. Also, as asked, what would the relative measure of travel have any issue with contamination? What do you mean when you say that Gasses 'travel' faster than liquids? Are they more easily absorbed? Is the relative velocity affected one way or the other (if you don't know the difference between speed of travel and velocity, then how do you know how their relative affects equate?) with respects to absorption rate into local water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 deleted post. Will respond later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Some states confirm water pollution from oil and gas drilling PITTSBURGH - In at least four states that have nurtured the nation's energy boom, hundreds of complaints have been made about well-water contamination from oil or gas drilling, and pollution was confirmed in a number of them, according to a review that casts doubt on industry suggestions that such problems rarely happen. The Associated Press requested data on drilling-related complaints in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia and Texas and found major differences in how the states report such problems. Texas provided the most detail, while the other states provided only general outlines. And while the confirmed problems represent only a tiny portion of the thousands of oil and gas wells drilled each year in the U.S., the lack of detail in some state reports could help fuel public confusion and mistrust. The AP found that Pennsylvania received 398 complaints in 2013 alleging that oil or natural gas drilling polluted or otherwise affected private water wells, compared with 499 in 2012. The Pennsylvania complaints can include allegations of short-term diminished water flow, as well as pollution from stray gas or other substances. More than 100 cases of pollution were confirmed over the past five years. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm sure there is some pollution. There are always trade-offs for energy. The question is not whether there will be some pollution, but how much will there be and how do we reasonably minimize that pollution without losing the benefits of the energy. In making that assessment, we should attempt to block out the white noise created by both 1) the anti-fracking hysterics who automatically exaggerate everything and 2) the oil industry shills who automatically downplay or deny everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 not worth it's own thread but certainly amusing to me. any opinion from those that live around there?.....or do you prefer it built somewhere else? Politics A Big Fracking LiePresident Obama isn’t just not fixing climate change—he’s making it worse. Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/fracking-natural-gas-exports-climate-change-102452.html#ixzz2rBZq912u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Speaking of chemicals I am in Charleston WV tonight. It is bad, very bad. Travesty it isn't more of a story Tap water in my room smells like licorice. I will not be taking a shower tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I was rather surprised it didn't rate a thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm sure there is some pollution. There are always trade-offs for energy. The question is not whether there will be some pollution, but how much will there be and how do we reasonably minimize that pollution without losing the benefits of the energy. In making that assessment, we should attempt to block out the white noise created by both 1) the anti-fracking hysterics who automatically exaggerate everything and 2) the oil industry shills who automatically downplay or deny everything. A lot of NG wells going in around me. You're right, people are fixated in fracking and the truth about it is somewhere in the middle. People who signed leases minimize the possible dangers and "hysterics", as you put it, is a good word for it. I believe Pennsylvania sold us out. IMO, we should be getting much more but the whole attitude was trickle—down lease payments to the landowners will filter out to the surrounding ocmmunity. Except, now little known/read clauses are kicking in so lease payments are much lower than expected. You move out to an area like this because of the bucolic quality of life and surroundings. Now the landscape is scarred by earth movers, hillsides adorned with vulgar "pads", deforestation, noise pollution, light pollution, visual pollution. Ironically, gas prices haven't budged much. I asked the president of the local Chamber of Commerce about the real benefits that the NG industry has brought in and he danced around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 You move out to an area like this because of the bucolic quality of life and surroundings. Now the landscape is scarred by earth movers, hillsides adorned with vulgar "pads", deforestation, noise pollution, light pollution, visual pollution. Ironically, gas prices haven't budged much. I asked the president of the local Chamber of Commerce about the real benefits that the NG industry has brought in and he danced around it. Energy is better produced somewhere else has always seemed selfish to me. of course I've never been away from it.....maybe if I had more bucolic it would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-04/study-shows-fracking-is-bad-for-babies.html "While the study strongly indicates that fracking is bad for infant health, more work is needed to understand why. Surprisingly, water contamination does not appear to be the culprit: The researchers found similar results for mothers who had access to regularly monitored public water systems and mothers who relied on the kind of private wells that fracking is most likely to affect. Another possibility is that infants are being harmed by air pollution associated with fracking activity." Related earlier work on fracking and air pollution: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/20/local/la-me-gs-fracking-increases-air-pollution-health-risks-to-residents-20120320 http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/01/05/some-states-confirm-water-pollution-from-drilling/4328859/ "In at least four states that have nurtured the nation's energy boom, hundreds of complaints have been made about well-water contamination from oil or gas drilling, and pollution was confirmed in a number of them, according to a review that casts doubt on industry suggestions that such problems rarely happen." And I have just been saying and am continuing to say, we don't need to stop fracking, we just have to slow down some. How bad are the problems, how far out are they going to be problems, and what are the mitigating issues (most wells don't seem to have problems in terms of drinking water so why do some areas/sites have issues and not others?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Speaking of chemicals I am in Charleston WV tonight. It is bad, very bad. Travesty it isn't more of a story Tap water in my room smells like licorice. I will not be taking a shower tomorrow Amazed people aren't looting and rioting and blaming the president, right? Outside of that, enjoy your stay in almost heaven. Te people there will probably still manage to be very nice and hospitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-04/study-shows-fracking-is-bad-for-babies.html "While the study strongly indicates that fracking is bad for infant health, more work is needed to understand why. Surprisingly, water contamination does not appear to be the culprit: The researchers found similar results for mothers who had access to regularly monitored public water systems and mothers who relied on the kind of private wells that fracking is most likely to affect. Another possibility is that infants are being harmed by air pollution associated with fracking activity." Related earlier work on fracking and air pollution: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/20/local/la-me-gs-fracking-increases-air-pollution-health-risks-to-residents-20120320 http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/01/05/some-states-confirm-water-pollution-from-drilling/4328859/ "In at least four states that have nurtured the nation's energy boom, hundreds of complaints have been made about well-water contamination from oil or gas drilling, and pollution was confirmed in a number of them, according to a review that casts doubt on industry suggestions that such problems rarely happen." And I have just been saying and am continuing to say, we don't need to stop fracking, we just have to slow down some. How bad are the problems, how far out are they going to be problems, and what are the mitigating issues (most wells don't seem to have problems in terms of drinking water so why do some areas/sites have issues and not others?). Even in this day and age, it really bothers me that we're allowed to go full steam ahead even before we have a good idea of how the action will affect the surrounding area. No, I'm not saying we need a definitive answer but to have a solid understanding of the possible risks. Parties involved always seem at polar opposites—either it's tainted well water or it's perfectly safe. The truth is somewhere in the middle and I just really want to know which end of the middle that needle is trending toward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Amazed people aren't looting and rioting and blaming the president, right? I am opposed to looting and rioting, but there should be some guillotines in front of the state capitol building. It just amazes me how many times a corporation can utterly rape the state with little consequence. I've been texting with friends in Charleston, and it is a nightmare. The water is allegedly safe, yet it smells like licorice, tastes funny, and has a weird bluish color. I have friends who have flushed their water lines four and five times and still have the same problem. They also can't get a straight answer for what is actually considered "safe." In a few months, the bankruptcies will start be filed by the restaurants and other businesses that have been closed this entire time. It's fun. But don't worry. Natural gas is going to save the state. And I'm sure nothing tragic will happen with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Amazed people aren't looting and rioting and blaming the president, right? Outside of that, enjoy your stay in almost heaven. Te people there will probably still manage to be very nice and hospitable. They are severely pissed at the chemical company and the local politicians who took money from the company I was told last night over dinner that the holding tank hadn't been inspected since 1991 Coal didn't need another shot like this the state is reeling. I was at a coal mine yesterday it is grim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Don't disagree at all, LKB. My post was more tongue in cheek regarding the states residents. We all know our state government is ****ed. They are severely pissed at the chemical company and the local politicians who took money from the company I was told last night over dinner that the holding tank hadn't been inspected since 1991 Coal didn't need another shot like this the state is reeling. I was at a coal mine yesterday it is grim What are you in Charleston for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Speaking of chemicals I am in Charleston WV tonight. It is bad, very bad. Travesty it isn't more of a story Tap water in my room smells like licorice. I will not be taking a shower tomorrow Produced a feature story on this earlier in the week. The guy sounded really tired and frustrated. Described the same problems. Says his group is trying to help, distribute water, etc. but the problem is still large and folks are still getting sick due to water and fumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Lets be honest Zoony, you weren't taking a shower anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I was told last night over dinner that the holding tank hadn't been inspected since 1991 Coal didn't need another shot like this the state is reeling. I was at a coal mine yesterday it is grim Coal is dead in WV. What you are seeing is a corpse that is being propped up to look alive. West Virginia will do anything and everything to keep those 40,000 jobs going. Mountain top removal, unsafe working conditions, poisoning the rivers? It's all worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Don't disagree at all, LKB. My post was more tongue in cheek regarding the states residents. We all know our state government is ****ed. What are you in Charleston for? Coal related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Produced a feature story on this earlier in the week. The guy sounded really tired and frustrated. Described the same problems. Says his group is trying to help, distribute water, etc. but the problem is still large and folks are still getting sick due to water and fumes. Yea. The people I know are not the types looking for some kind of payout off this (though, in fairness, a few of them are attorneys). One of them flushed the water line to his ice maker four times after he was given the all clear, made ice, put it in a soda, and was almost immediately ill. People can handle tragedy, accidents, and adversity. What everyone seems angry about is the lack of answers. No one seems to be clear on what "safe" would even be defined as at this point. Coal related You and Don Blankenship going to paint the town? (Which - in Charleston - means going to the mall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Lets be honest Zoony, you weren't taking a shower anyway. Well it is Thursday. I'm due I bathed with bottled water and a washcloth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yea. The people I know are not the types looking for some kind of payout off this (though, in fairness, a few of them are attorneys). One of them flushed the water line to his ice maker four times after he was given the all clear, made ice, put it in a soda, and was almost immediately ill. People can handle tragedy, accidents, and adversity. What everyone seems angry about is the lack of answers. No one seems to be clear on what "safe" would even be defined as at this point. You and Don Blankenship going to paint the town? (Which - in Charleston - means going to the mall). Unless the circus is in town, then it's civic center or bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 With respect to WV, they've had multiple issues in the same area over the years (this one easily being the biggest). They (state, voters, etc) haven't done anything signficant to fix the problems and if they don't, they will keep happening. That's the nature of the beast. Everybody knows about the Cuyahoga River fire, but it wasn't something that happened suddenly, and in fact there were several fires over the years until the one made the cover of Time magazine (and that wasn't even a big one), but it brought national attention and then an effort to clean it up. Yea. The people I know are not the types looking for some kind of payout off this (though, in fairness, a few of them are attorneys). One of them flushed the water line to his ice maker four times after he was given the all clear, made ice, put it in a soda, and was almost immediately ill. People can handle tragedy, accidents, and adversity. What everyone seems angry about is the lack of answers. No one seems to be clear on what "safe" would even be defined as at this point. The problem is that there are essentially no studies in terms of human health (or close to being relevant organisms) on the chemical that was spilled or really much how it will react/interact with the environment (how much does it "stick" to things like sediments,what is likely to cause its release), and there are even questions about what all was spilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Coal related]Is adamandeve researching coal operated sex toys? With respect to WV, they've had multiple issues in the same area over the years (this one easily being the biggest). They (state, voters, etc) haven't done anything signficant to fix the problems and if they don't, they will keep happening. That's the nature of the beast.One of the biggest rules in wv politics is that incumbents rarely lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They are severely pissed at the chemical company and the local politicians who took money from the company I was told last night over dinner that the holding tank hadn't been inspected since 1991 Coal didn't need another shot like this the state is reeling. I was at a coal mine yesterday it is grim that lack of inspection seems shocking,I'm assuming the secondary containment wasn't inspected either. Hard to believe a colored and odoriferous chemical would escape detection for so long and even make it through the water treatment plant itself. makes ya wonder what else they overlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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