twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's fun. But don't worry. Natural gas is going to save the state. And I'm sure nothing tragic will happen with that. every source has it's risks, including solar and wind production http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/31/bankrupt-solar-panel-firm-took-stimulus-money-left-toxic-mess-says-report/ negligence and stupidity certainly increases them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 anyways I feel like I am wasting time here trying to explain so I will stop An excellent example of a sound "mental" health choice in a given environment. A well-fracked environment. Not that such isn't perfectly fine and a boon to our needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 New developments to make everyone even more happy: Freedom Industries has only existed since December 31, 2013 as the result of a merger, and filed for bankruptcy on January 17, 2014. A company by the name of "Mountaineer Funding, LLC" will be providing Freedom Industries with its bankruptcy financing. Mountaineer Funding, LLC didn't exist before January 17, 2014, when it was incorporated by a man named J. Clifford Forrest, who just happens to share the name of the current owner of the now bankrupt Freedom Industries. According to the takeover paperwork, however, the negotiations occurred in "good faith and at arm's length." So basically this guy gets to keep the company and all its assets, and all the lawsuits and liability just magically go away because of the bankruptcy. Your job creators in action, America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 So basically this guy gets to keep the company and all its assets, and all the lawsuits and liability just magically go away because of the bankruptcy. Your job creators in action, America. You sure about that? it certainly doesn't read that way from the cradle to grave docs I've read http://www.pepperlaw.com/publications_article.aspx?ArticleKey=161 For example, an environmental protection agency’s claim for reimbursement of money it spent during a Chapter 11 case to abate ongoing pollution caused by the debtor usually will be allowed as an administrative expense of the debtor’s estate. Since administrative expense claims generally must be paid in full when the debtor’s Chapter 11 plan is confirmed, the agency probably won’t care that its reimbursement claim will also be "discharged" under the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Sounds about right predicto. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 New developments to make everyone even more happy: Freedom Industries has only existed since December 31, 2013 as the result of a merger, and filed for bankruptcy on January 17, 2014. A company by the name of "Mountaineer Funding, LLC" will be providing Freedom Industries with its bankruptcy financing. Mountaineer Funding, LLC didn't exist before January 17, 2014, when it was incorporated by a man named J. Clifford Forrest, who just happens to share the name of the current owner of the now bankrupt Freedom Industries. According to the takeover paperwork, however, the negotiations occurred in "good faith and at arm's length." So basically this guy gets to keep the company and all its assets, and all the lawsuits and liability just magically go away because of the bankruptcy. Your job creators in action, America. I was reading this at lunch. Just stunning, but so pure West Virginia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 You sure about that? it certainly doesn't read that way from the cradle to grave docs I've read http://www.pepperlaw.com/publications_article.aspx?ArticleKey=161 For example, an environmental protection agency’s claim for reimbursement of money it spent during a Chapter 11 case to abate ongoing pollution caused by the debtor usually will be allowed as an administrative expense of the debtor’s estate. Since administrative expense claims generally must be paid in full when the debtor’s Chapter 11 plan is confirmed, the agency probably won’t care that its reimbursement claim will also be "discharged" under the plan. I'm not a bankruptcy guy, and I'm not sure that it will work. But it is clearly what Forrest is TRYING to pull off, and up until now, he has had the political power brokers in West Virginia on his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not a bankruptcy guy, and I'm not sure that it will work. But it is clearly what Forrest is TRYING to pull off, and up until now, he has had the political power brokers in West Virginia on his side. Corps certainly get more protection than individuals in environmental related bankruptcy claims, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Corps certainly get more protection than individuals in environmental related bankruptcy claims, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. Why? J Clifford Forrest is worth tens of millions of dollars. He bought his son William Perry's superbowl ring, so his son could return it to Perry. That company is going down the toilet but the personal worth that he has probably will not be touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Should his personal wealth be touched ?....or just the corps His shoes don't fit me ....I'm odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 that lack of inspection seems shocking,I'm assuming the secondary containment wasn't inspected either. Hard to believe a colored and odoriferous chemical would escape detection for so long and even make it through the water treatment plant itself. makes ya wonder what else they overlook. I was also told that the tank was built just after the turn of last century...it wasn't even welded. Rivets West Virginia is in an incredibly tough spot politically. Do they side with the pro coal, anti union Republicans who are probably fine with private enterprise dumping chemicals into the water as long as they provide jobs... Or... Do they side with the pro union, anti coal left who think that this country can get all the power they need from windmills and harvesting unicorn farts, but think that what companies like Freedom Industries need is more regulation and oversight? If I were in West Virginia I believe I wouldn't vote at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 it is just hard for me to believe(not that I doubt you), here in unregulated Texas I get inspected at least annually even underground tanks that were filled and abandoned in place decades ago on property I own are checked every few yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 it is just hard for me to believe(not that I doubt you), here in unregulated Texas I get inspected at least annually even underground tanks that were filled and abandoned in place decades ago on property I own are checked every few yrs. They've read your posting history. They're checking to make sure you aren't converting them into bunkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 New developments to make everyone even more happy: Freedom Industries has only existed since December 31, 2013 as the result of a merger, and filed for bankruptcy on January 17, 2014. A company by the name of "Mountaineer Funding, LLC" will be providing Freedom Industries with its bankruptcy financing. Mountaineer Funding, LLC didn't exist before January 17, 2014, when it was incorporated by a man named J. Clifford Forrest, who just happens to share the name of the current owner of the now bankrupt Freedom Industries. According to the takeover paperwork, however, the negotiations occurred in "good faith and at arm's length." So basically this guy gets to keep the company and all its assets, and all the lawsuits and liability just magically go away because of the bankruptcy. Your job creators in action, America. You know, if only the markets were free we could solve the worlds problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 They've read your posting history. They're checking to make sure you aren't converting them into bunkers. well I was just referencing the regulatory agencies, not DHS and the suits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 it is just hard for me to believe(not that I doubt you), here in unregulated Texas I get inspected at least annually even underground tanks that were filled and abandoned in place decades ago on property I own are checked every few yrs. West Virginia's DEP is understaffed and in the pocket of the mining companies. Its main function over the past few decades has been to keep the EPA out of West Virginia. DEP is on the record as saying that if it enforced the law, it would pretty much shut down the coal industry in West Virginia. I'm sure that same sentiment applies to the chemical industry as well. http://www.timeswv.com/westvirginia/x493359320/Feds-asked-to-investigate-mining-oversight And - believe it or not - no laws were broken by no inspections of the facility. Inspections are not required by state law. You can store toxic chemicals on the river upstream from a water treatment plan in a Radio Flyer Little Red Wagon if you want, I guess. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/us/critics-say-chemical-spill-highlights-lax-west-virginia-regulations.html?_r=0 West Virginia law does not require inspections for chemical storage facilities — only for production facilities. The good news is that the state didn't have enough inspectors to handle all the oil and gas permits a decade ago - before the oil and gas industry exploded. So, they ain't inspectin' anything right now. http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201111150238 Today, just 19 state inspectors police thousands of natural gas wells across West Virginia. That's just four more than DEP had two decades ago, before the race to tap the Marcellus Shale's vast reserves greatly increased and complicated the inspection force's workload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 By the way, this all you need to know about West Virginia. This week, the state senate started the process of WEAKENING water standards at the urging of the coal industry. Again, the DEP is essentially a lobbyist group for the coal industry. http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201401220087 CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Two weeks after a chemical spill contaminated the drinking water supply for 300,000 West Virginians, state lawmakers moved forward with legislation that environmental groups say weakens stream protections. The move came during a Senate Natural Resources Committee in which lawmakers also began work on legislation proposed in response to the spill at the Freedom Industries tank farm just up the Elk River from West Virginia American Water's regional intake. Don Garvin, lead lobbyist for the West Virginia Environmental Council, said the legislation is the fourth time since 1996 that the state has moved to soften its water quality standard for aluminum. "It kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it?" Garvin said later. "This was an opportunity for them to vote for clean water, rather than allowing our water to be dirtied." The legislation is a coal industry-backed move to rewrite the way West Virginia calculates its limits for aluminum. It was proposed by the state Department of Environmental Protection, which says its sliding scale that ties allowable aluminum concentrations to the water's mineral content is justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 By the way, this all you need to know about West Virginia. This week, the state senate started the process of WEAKENING water standards at the urging of the coal industry. Again, the DEP is essentially a lobbyist group for the coal industry. http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201401220087 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Despite Not Using Water, West Virginians Say Water Bills Have Spiked Since Chemical Spill Many West Virginians have not been using their water since a massive chemical spill tainted their water last month. Despite this, some say their water bills are outrageously high. The bills, according to the West Virginia Citizen Action Group, are worth more than the credits that West Virginia American Water has offered to people who had to flush their water systems several time since 10,000 gallons of a chemical called Crude MCHM (and potential a few other chemicals) leaked into the Elk River. During those flushes, customers leave their water on for 25 minutes, a process that WVAM says should use a maximum of 500 gallons of water. WVAM has promised a 1,000-gallon credit for residents on their water bills, and a 2,000-gallon credit for small businesses. But many customers have not yet seen that credit on their bills. The credits, according to WVAM President Jeff McIntyre, are supposed to be included on bills that were sent out Friday. Charleston resident Patrick S. Lawson Sr., however, sent ThinkProgress a bill he received Friday, with no credit to be found. The bill also showed a meter reading saying he used 600 gallons of water since Jan. 30, which Lawson said is untrue. He has not flushed his water since the 30th, nor has he been drinking or cooking with it. He has limited his showers to twice a week, has done two loads of laundry, and has run his dishwasher twice. “They are claiming I have used 600 gallons in the past 6 days and that I don’t have any leaks,” Lawson said by e-mail. “This also means my sewage bill will go up, due to it being figured by your water usage. It is becoming painfully obvious that I’m in a no-win situation, if I don’t pay the bill they shut off my water. They leave the burden of proof on the homeowner.” Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Well somebody has to pay for the clean up. Makes sense to hold the people responsible for the spill accountable.....oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Well somebody has to pay for the clean up. Makes sense to hold the people responsible for the spill accountable.....oops Well, remember rule #1 of the one-percenters: "Privatize all profit, and socialize all risk." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Voting in wv is tough. Mainly because you always know who's winning. Democrats always win here, except they're not democrats like the rest of the country know. If you really want someone who takes the environment seriously, you throw way a vote. But that will be what I do from now on. *post was generally speaking* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Voting in wv is tough. Mainly because you always know who's winning. Democrats always win here, except they're not democrats like the rest of the country know. If you really want someone who takes the environment seriously, you throw way a vote. But that will be what I do from now on. *post was generally speaking* You're voting for what Democrats were in the 1950s. Not that you are really voting. The local Democratic committees pick the candidates, then they become incumbents, and then they stay in office until someone dies and everyone gets to rotate. I like to believe that this disaster impacting Kanawha County would change things, but I hoped that Massey would change things, and it didn't. At some point, West Virginians have to recognize that they are not getting any real monetary benefit from being serfs to coal, gas, and chemical companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I like to believe that this disaster impacting Kanawha County would change things, but I hoped that Massey would change things, and it didn't. At some point, West Virginians have to recognize that they are not getting any real monetary benefit from being serfs to coal, gas, and chemical companies. Today: 'Significant' coal slurry spill blackens Kanawha County creek CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- More than 100,000 gallons of coal slurry poured into an eastern Kanawha County stream Tuesday in what officials were calling a "significant spill" from a Patriot Coal processing facility. Emergency officials and environmental inspectors said that roughly six miles of Fields Creek had been blackened and that a smaller amount of the slurry made it into the Kanawha River near Chesapeake. "There has been a significant environmental impact," said Harold Ward, acting director of the state Department of Environmental Protection's Division of Mining and Reclamation. The incident occurred at Patriot Coal's Kanawha Eagle operation, Ward said. Click on the link for the full article To your point LKB: Earlier on Tuesday, Kanawha County emergency officials referred questions about the incident to the state Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety. Jimmy Gianato, director of the MAPS Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, said he didn't have a lot of details on the incident, but was under the impression it wasn't that serious. "I don't think there's really anything to it," Gianato said. "It turned out to be much of nothing." Yeah, 100,000 gallons of coal slurry in the watershed, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You're voting for what Democrats were in the 1950s. Not that you are really voting. The local Democratic committees pick the candidates, then they become incumbents, and then they stay in office until someone dies and everyone gets to rotate. I like to believe that this disaster impacting Kanawha County would change things, but I hoped that Massey would change things, and it didn't. At some point, West Virginians have to recognize that they are not getting any real monetary benefit from being serfs to coal, gas, and chemical companies. I am not holding my breath. At least not until I have to go to charleston in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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