TradeTheBeal! Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 The whole Stockton/Malone/stay in Utah for 15+ years deal is never gonna happen again. Never. Ever. Again. Jazz fan just needs to understand that and get used to it. Embrace their destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hersh said: That only would have guaranteed them ONE more season. That's not really being cheap nor would it likely change the ultimate outcome. They could have given him a five year deal. He was in Wall's draft class, yet he hit free agency two years earlier. It was stupid team building. Utah did a lot of that during his tenure. They wasted several high draft picks and got virtually nothing from Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap because they sat on their dicks and wouldn't deal them even though it was clear they weren't part of their future. They continuously let good role players walk, like DeMarre Carroll, in large part because they picked the wrong guys to keep (Alec Burks) and they had too much young talent on their team, couldn't figure out how to consolidate it and get value for it, so the league decided for them. They are the cautionary tale of what happens when you refuse to pick a direction in your rebuild and stick to it. You end up becoming something of a farm system for the rest of the league. Picking Enes Kanter was dumb when their three best players were Jefferson, Millsap, and Favors. He predictably washed out there and they got nothing for him. To make matters worse, they had given up their 2012 draft pick to get Jefferson two years before. So they just kind of abandoned any original plan for Jefferson in the Deron Williams fiasco. In 2013 they ****ed up by picking Trey Burke 9th overall. CJ McCollum went right after him. Luckily they caught lightning in a bottle with Gobert at the end of the first, else they'd still be a late lottery team today. In 2014 they ****ed up again by pick Dante Exum 5th overall. Another PG. And another bust. Granted, this draft class was horrible, but they made the worst pick of the lottery. They also ****ed up by signing Hayward to a stupid ass three year sub-max extension when they could have locked him up for five. 2015 they ****ed up by picking Trey Lyles 12th overall. Actually not a bad prospect, but again, they picked a guy with no avenue for playing time due to their roster construction, and he's withering on the vine. He'll probably be out of there sooner rather than later. They could have and should have picked Devin Booker instead. In 2016 they actually did something smart in trading their draft pick for George Hill. He finally rescued them from trash guard play and the team made the leap to the playoffs. But then they ****ed this up by letting him walk a year later. Which of course pissed Gordon Hayward off and was a significant factor in his decision to leave. So basically Utah has ****ed things up with awful front office decision making at every turn. They've hamstrung themselves by stacking up all their talent in the front court and letting it walk or wither for zero return. They've made terrible decisions in the backcourt, committing to JAGs like Alec Burks and Rodney Hood and passing over future All Stars like McCollum and Booker for draft busts. The only reason they were any good at all was because Hayward exceeded expectations, George Hill worked out big time, and they struck oil with Gobert. They're a ****ty franchise with awful management and I have no sympathy for their plight. Edited July 6, 2017 by stevemcqueen1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: They could have given him a five year deal. He was in Wall's draft class, yet he hit free agency two years earlier. It was stupid team building. The only reason they were any good at all was because Hayward exceeded expectations, George Hill worked out big time, and they struck oil with Gobert. They're a ****ty franchise with awful management and I have no sympathy for their plight. Okay. Not sure why you felt the need to do a write up, but that's fine. Not really sure which teams you think have great management in the NBA, but they certainly are better than most teams. That might not be saying much in this league. Edited July 6, 2017 by Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Stupid team building. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Why doesnt Gordon Hayward take a slightly below max deal? The Celtics are not that far away from keeping everyone together. 17 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: The only reason they were any good at all was because Hayward exceeded expectations, George Hill worked out big time, and they struck oil with Gobert. They're a ****ty franchise with awful management and I have no sympathy for their plight. Quinn Snyder is a good coach, but I dig your synopsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 23 hours ago, Renegade7 said: NBA needs a franchise tag or something. Utah literally just got the rug ripped out from under them just when they was starting to get right. I'm actually in favor of restricting player movement. But I think it should be done with a hard cap and the elimination of max contracts. Let making too much money be the reason players can't form super teams. I don't at all like the idea of giving a bad franchise like Utah a tool like the NFL franchise tag to save themselves from a history of awful decision. NFL contracts aren't guaranteed so everyone essentially plays on one year deals. It's a whole different matter to deny an NBA player (and presumably a max contract guy) the ability to sign a long term deal when he's in his prime. If the NBA instituted a franchise tag, then I think you'd have to do away with the draft to give players at least some say in which team is going to own them for the next decade+ of their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Why doesnt Gordon Hayward take a slightly below max deal? The Celtics are not that far away from keeping everyone together. Quinn Snyder is a good coach, but I dig your synopsis. Per the Jazz and team building, doesn't most every team that wins have to have players exceed expectations or strike oil with a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Clippers signed this dude his passing is insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Holy crap. That seems way too high for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Now we get to deal with him in our division...nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 40 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Holy crap. That seems way too high for him. Riley is paying out a lot of money to Olynyk, Tyler Johnson, and Dion Waiters. Weird. 4 hours ago, StillUnknown said: Clippers signed this dude his passing is insane Am I seeing things or is he putting spin on some of those bounce passes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Holy crap. That seems way too high for him. And yet Olynyk was the Celtics MVP. If he doesn't go 7 of 10 or whatever from 3 in game 7, Wiz win that series. Edited July 7, 2017 by TryTheBeal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Destino said: Riley is paying out a lot of money to Olynyk, Tyler Johnson, and Dion Waiters. Weird. I want to say he knows something that nobody else does, but I find that hard to believe. Feels an awful lot like he's throwing darts. Miami has a two year window with this group. Dragic, Johnson, and Whiteside all have player options for the '19-'20 season. I think they'll be pretty good, but I don't really see them being close to contention with this group. And the Olynyk and Waiters deals feel an awful lot like bad contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19876504/free-agent-vince-carter-agrees-one-year-deal-sacramento-kings Is Vince Carter a Hall of Famer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I wouldn't vote him in on a first ballot. But he'll probably get in. I can't believe he's already spent three seasons in Memphis. Feels like they just got him yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Tim Hardaway Jr got a big deal from the Knicks. So if I have this right, they traded him to the Hawks for Jerian Grant. Then they trade Jerian Grant to the Bulls for Derrick Rose. Now they pay through the nose for Hardaway to try and keep Atlanta from matching. This franchise man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19876504/free-agent-vince-carter-agrees-one-year-deal-sacramento-kings Is Vince Carter a Hall of Famer? yes He is one of the most famous players to ever play in the NBA. Was one of the best wing players of the decade. He also has nearly 25,000 points. 10 seasons at over 20 ppg. He should be first ballot based on his resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I'm seeing stuff about Derrick Rose ending up in Dallas to "mentor Dennis Smith Jr." Um... I don't think that's a good job for Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: yes He is one of the most famous players to ever play in the NBA. Was one of the best wing players of the decade. He also has nearly 25,000 points. 10 seasons at over 20 ppg. He should be first ballot based on his resume. I can see the arguments for and against. Definitely one of the most famous and popular players but that stems from the dunk contest he was on when playing for the Raptors. Hasn't won a ring (even though I think the ring fascination is a bit overblown) and no real memorable in game moments. His best in game moment, IMO, was when he dragged his nuts over that French guy's head in the Olympics and dunked hard. IMO, one of the most amazing things you'll ever see in any sport. I really like him and I hope he gets in. I just dunno if it'll be first ballot or not. I'd probably vote for him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Vinsanity HOF? Yes...easily. A more versatile and skillful version of Dominique. Hardaway 18M a year? How bout no... Edited July 7, 2017 by TryTheBeal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I can see the arguments for and against. Definitely one of the most famous and popular players but that stems from the dunk contest he was on when playing for the Raptors. Hasn't won a ring (even though I think the ring fascination is a bit overblown) and no real memorable in game moments. His best in game moment, IMO, was when he dragged his nuts over that French guy's head in the Olympics and dunked hard. IMO, one of the most amazing things you'll ever see in any sport. I really like him and I hope he gets in. I just dunno if it'll be first ballot or not. I'd probably vote for him though. Its the basketball HOF, not NBA HOF. That moment is arguably the most famous dunk in the history of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Just now, BenningRoadSkin said: Its the basketball HOF, not NBA HOF. That moment is arguably the most famous dunk in the history of the sport. True, the basketball HOF is different in that regard. It's one of the top 10, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Vince is easily a first ballot HOFer if voters do not weigh down how he left Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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