***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Going Commando]

People are acting like Ginobili ain't never pipe on anybody...

Look how weird Nene looks without any hair.

I wonder if people were still calling him Maybyner at that point.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Isn't Ginobli pretty good evidence that we shouldn't start dancing on Wade's grave yet?

 

Ginobli looked like a corpse through most of the playoffs last year. Wade looked great two weeks ago. Who knows why these guys suddenly look mortal at different points?

 

By the way, if I am Lebron, I am coming back to Miami for the long haul. However, more than younger teammates....more than more shooters...the one thing I demand from the Heat is some relief on minutes.

 

He's played 3628 minutes over the past four playoffs and 11,168 regular season minutes. That's nearly 15,000 minutes over 4 years....with an Olympics in the middle.

 

(An NBA season is 3936 minutes long for comparison).

Edited June 16, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[MattFancy]

Isn't Ginobli pretty good evidence that we shouldn't start dancing on Wade's grave yet?

 

Ginobli looked like a corpse through most of the playoffs last year. Wade looked great two weeks ago. Who knows why these guys suddenly look mortal at different points?

 

By the way, if I am Lebron, I am coming back to Miami for the long haul. However, more than younger teammates....more than more shooters...the one thing I demand from the Heat is some relief on minutes.

 

He's played 3628 minutes over the past four playoffs and 11,168 regular season minutes. That's nearly 15,000 minutes over 4 years....with an Olympics in the middle.

 

(An NBA season is 3936 minutes long for comparison).

 

So basically if you include the Olympics in there, he's played 5 seasons the last 4 years.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So basically if you include the Olympics in there, he's played 5 seasons the last 4 years.

 

More than that, really. Because he's 300 minutes shy of playing all 48 minutes for every game of an 82-game season just in the playoffs.

[Destino]

What San Antonio did to the Heat is more than just Wade burning out. It felt much like what the Thunder did to the Spurs two years ago, where after the first two games the Thunder solved the puzzle on how to beat them. Game 1 and 2 really had the heat in control late and the broken AC combined with a Lebrons propensity to cramp up helped the Spurs in game 1. But game 3-5 was an entirely different situation. The Heat got CRUSHED three games straight, two of which were in Miami, and they couldn't do a thing about it.

Did they solve the Heat puzzle, particularly how to beat the Heat's defense, or were they just a much better team? I ask because they had a lot of blow out victories against the blazers and thunder as well.

[Sticksboi05]

Isn't Ginobli pretty good evidence that we shouldn't start dancing on Wade's grave yet?

 

Ginobli looked like a corpse through most of the playoffs last year. Wade looked great two weeks ago. Who knows why these guys suddenly look mortal at different points?

 

By the way, if I am Lebron, I am coming back to Miami for the long haul. However, more than younger teammates....more than more shooters...the one thing I demand from the Heat is some relief on minutes.

 

He's played 3628 minutes over the past four playoffs and 11,168 regular season minutes. That's nearly 15,000 minutes over 4 years....with an Olympics in the middle.

 

(An NBA season is 3936 minutes long for comparison).

 

Ginobili is a finesse player, Wade made a career abusing his body.

 

Edited June 16, 2014 by Sticksboi05

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Did they solve the Heat puzzle, particularly how to beat the Heat's defense, or were they just a much better team? I ask because they had a lot of blow out victories against the blazers and thunder as well.

 

I think the offense they run is designed by God to beat the Heat's defense, and they executed it flawlessly.

 

The Heat's defense is not a gimmick by any stretch, but it's exhausting and puts as much pressure on the Heat as it does their opponents. It counts on you to make a mistake before they do. Most teams will make those mistakes. The Spurs made those mistakes in Game 1 and still got a W.

 

(In football it's like those Dick Lebeau/Rex Ryan type defenses that will leave something exposed on every play, but count on making a big play before you connect on the 10 consecutive slant patterns it takes to score against it).

 

When you are constantly abandoing someone to trap and then counting on your athleticism to get back, quick precise passes to guys who can shoot are the key. The Heat want the ball to stick - even if it is for a second.

 

They want you to be like the Pacers where everyone is a willing passwer but they all take about half a second longer than they should to make the pass. The Spurs know where the next pass is going before it arrives to them. And they all can shoot. And they all are willing to pass up a shot if they knew a better one is coming.

 

There really aren't many teams capable of taking advantage of this. I don't think any in the East are.

[Sticksboi05]

Numbers Never Lie put up an interesting stat comparing Jordan, Duncan, Kobe and LeBron.

 

Duncan: 5 NBA Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, 2 NBA MVP's

 

Kobe: 5 NBA Championships, 2 Finals MVP's, 1 NBA MVP

 

is Tim Duncan better than Kobe?

 

Getting posterized by Ginobili confirms that. GINOBILI!?!?

 

 

I always had Duncan as the best player of this generation over Kobe, 5th title or not.  Kobe was never at any point the best player in the NBA.  In his early years it was Jordan, then it was Shaq, by the mid-2000s it was probably Duncan or Dirk and by the late 2000's it was LeBron and has been since.

 

The one MVP he got he didn't even deserve.

 

That said the obsession with rings to judge how good a player is has gotten out of control, mainly in basketball.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Numbers Never Lie put up an interesting stat comparing Jordan, Duncan, Kobe and LeBron.

 

Duncan: 5 NBA Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, 2 NBA MVP's

 

Kobe: 5 NBA Championships, 2 Finals MVP's, 1 NBA MVP

 

is Tim Duncan better than Kobe?

 

 

At power forward/center, absolutely.  At shooting guard, absolutely not.  

[Going Commando]

Ginobili is a finesse player, Wade made a career abusing his body.

Yeah that's a big difference for them. Wade has always been a bull and his absurd change of direction and quickness were how he got space and scoring opportunities. Ginobili can shoot, Wade can't. Wade's an awesome ball handler and has all kinds of moves for scoring around the rim. Including a post game. But the lack of shooting really hurts his longevity. He's not a terrifying downhill player any more.

[RonArtest15]

Remember Wade's converse commercial?  Fall down 7 times, get up 8?  He's 32 going on 52. 

[Going Commando]

Re: Bosh trade comments,

It's clear to me now that the trade doesn't work. Doesn't make sense for the Wizards to give up much of anything for him given how funky the last two years of his contract are. Ariza and Nene is probably the most they can offer, and Ariza is a FA right now.

And if they aren't winning the trade, Miami doesn't need to deal Bosh because they know he'll take a paycut to stay in Miami eventually. They're better off just hanging tight with him and waiting for his contract to end.

But I still think Miami has a Bosh problem in that they aren't utilizing him as well as they should. Bosh spending so much time spotting up from 18 to 23 feet is weak. He's not a good three point shooter. They'd be better off with a Ryan Anderson or Ersan Ilyasova in that role if that's all they need.

I think Miami definitely runs a gimmicky system with no traditional 5 and a perimeter oriented SF playing up at PF on defense and PG on offense. Their defense isn't good. That's the issue. If you're going to swarm ball handlers on the perimeter then you need a big that can defend in space, protect the rim from the weakside, AND a big to play man in the post to plug all the holes, and that's something they don't have in the slightest. They got abused by a good passing and shooting team in SA and they get abused by teams with bigs that can score.

Their offense is gimmicky too because they have no 4 or 5. They go for maximum floor spacing by putting everyone on the perimeter, and entirely rely on LeBron to make things happen. If the transition game isn't working, then they don't have a variety of easy offensive looks to fall back on, just LeBron drive and kicks. Their only natural big man PnR finisher is Birdman, who is a 15 MPG player. LeBron should be running PnRs as the roll man, but he's the one who has to handle the ball the whole time because their guards are not ball handlers anymore. And they don't have someone to just dump it to in the post to steady the team, slow down the tempo, go out and create a look and end that opposing run.

From the beginnig, Miami was very very reliant on the fact that Wade and LeBron were All NBA offensive creators and All NBA defenders to make it work. Now that Wade isn't that any more, it's not really going to work at a championship caliber level any more.

[PeterMP]

I don't think other teams are necessarily going to be able to do what the Spurs did as well as they did to the Heat.

 

other teams don't put 5 guys on the floor that are offensive factors the way the Spurs can and aren't ball movement killers.

 

For the Heat against the Spurs, it is constantly help-rotate-help-rotate-help-rotate-etc.

 

Against most other teams, it is help-rotate-help-rotate-pass to a guy that is offensively a limited player (where he has received the pass) and/or is a ball movement killer and will stand there with the ball for a few seconds and let the Heat defense to recover and reset.

 

Now, I'm sure some of them will look at it and try and duplicate and they will do so with varying degrees of success.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

From the beginnig, Miami was very very reliant on the fact that Wade and LeBron were All NBA offensive creators and All NBA defenders to make it work. Now that Wade isn't that any more, it's not really going to work at a championship caliber level any more.

 

Miami will be lucky to ever win another game.

[PeterMP]

Miami will be lucky to ever win another game.

 

With this group, do you see them winning another championship?

 

I think he's right.

 

(I do think they can win with their defense the way it is without a real big man if they can add another perimeter defender that is a threat in a half court offense (in particular shoot).  

 

If you gave them Bruce Bowen in his prime, I think they'd be okay.

 

But realistically, then you are inserting another starter into this line up.

 

They have too many people that aren't very good defenders (and so you have to help) or aren't particularly threatening offensive players.

 

None of that means they won't win a ton of games and even be considered one of the best teams in the NBA next year.

Edited June 17, 2014 by PeterMP

[Chew]

 

None of that means they won't win a ton of games and even be considered one of the best teams in the NBA next year.

 

Lucky for Miami they're in the east. 

 

Lebron and the Heat have been dominating an eastern conference that's the weakest its been in a while.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Chew

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

With this group, do you see them winning another championship?

 

Depends on what you mean by "group?"

 

Obviously, they are going to make big changes. Nearly every player on that team was on a one-year deal. Battier is retiring. Chalmers, Allen, Anderson, Lewis, Beasley, Oden, Jones, and Douglas are all free agents and will all probably be gone.

 

Right now, the Miami Heat are Udonis Haslem and Norris Cole.

 

In reality, it's kind of silly to talk about their options until we see if Wade opts in to the final two years of his deal. If he does, they are either going to be doing more of the same.....or they are going to be moving forward without Lebron.

 

Having said all that, The Big Three and scraps would still be favored to win the East. The Pacers can't really get better with their cap situation. Neither can the Wizards. Neither can the Nets. I never considered Toronto a threat.

 

The one team that could be interesting is Chicago, but that team probably needs shaken up too.

 

And I don't know what the West is going to look like next year. Hell, the Spurs nearly lost to the Mavs this year.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

Depends on what you mean by "group?"

 

Obviously, they are going to make big changes. Nearly every player on that team was on a one-year deal. Battier is retiring. Chalmers, Allen, Anderson, Lewis, Beasley, Oden, Jones, and Douglas are all free agents and will all probably be gone.

 

Right now, the Miami Heat are Udonis Haslem and Norris Cole.

 

In reality, it's kind of silly to talk about their options until we see if Wade opts in to the final two years of his deal. If he does, they are either going to be doing more of the same.....or they are going to be moving forward without Lebron.

 

Having said all that, The Big Three and scraps would still be favored to win the East. The Pacers can't really get better with their cap situation. Neither can the Wizards. Neither can the Nets. I never considered Toronto a threat.

 

The one team that could be interesting is Chicago, but that team probably needs shaken up too.

 

And I don't know what the West is going to look like next year. Hell, the Spurs nearly lost to the Mavs this year.

- I don't think LeBron leaves no matter what. There is too much financial incentive to stay.

- Indy, Toronto, and D.C. all can get better despite their cap situations because their key players are young and are still improving rapidly. Paul George, John Wall, Bradley Beal, and Jonas Valanciunas are nowhere near as good as they can get.

The Wizards alone are going to get way better just by doing nothing and waiting for their young guys to grow up. And they haven't even taken their #3 overall pick from last year out of the box yet.

The East hit a nadir last year, exacerbated by the Derrick Rose injury and the fact that the New York teams were so poorly constructed. It's going to get better from here on out. Miami may have another year with no serious challenger if Chicago doesn't make any big moves. But beyond that, the East will start catching up. The Wizards and Raptors will get way better. The top four picks in a loaded draft class are all East teams and Boston has the sixth pick. Orlando and Boston are going to get good again and it's not going to take them that long to do it.

Miami's window in the East will close sooner than later if they don't get a lot younger and more balanced.

[Going Commando]

Philly tanked shamefully this season, but imagine that team in two or three years with MCW, Parker/Wiggins, Young, and Noel. That'll be another very good team. The Bucks have a very appealing base of young talent. Andre Drummond is in Detroit for now. Cleveland can get Joel Embiid. These terrible teams are going to end up getting a lot better.

The East tanked harder than the West last season and that's one of the big factors that produced the nadir. It's going to get a lot better from here on out.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Miami's window in the East will close sooner than later if they don't get a lot younger and more balanced.

 

That's obviously true. Just not next year.

 

Unless the three stars make tremendous financial sacrifices, there just aren't a lot of options for them.

[Destino]

Unless some eastern team suddenly adds a lot of talent or the Pacers suddenly remember how to play as a team, the Heat have no threats in the east, and likely won't for 2-3 more years. If a Chicago gets Rose back and he's not terrible (I doubt he'll ever be what he was) and adds Melo, I could see them threatening the Heat but I'm not sure they'd win. Brooklyn is old and getting older.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Destino

[PeterMP]

Depends on what you mean by "group?"

 

Obviously, they are going to make big changes. Nearly every player on that team was on a one-year deal. Battier is retiring. Chalmers, Allen, Anderson, Lewis, Beasley, Oden, Jones, and Douglas are all free agents and will all probably be gone.

 

Right now, the Miami Heat are Udonis Haslem and Norris Cole.

 

In reality, it's kind of silly to talk about their options until we see if Wade opts in to the final two years of his deal. If he does, they are either going to be doing more of the same.....or they are going to be moving forward without Lebron.

 

Having said all that, The Big Three and scraps would still be favored to win the East. The Pacers can't really get better with their cap situation. Neither can the Wizards. Neither can the Nets. I never considered Toronto a threat.

 

The one team that could be interesting is Chicago, but that team probably needs shaken up too.

 

And I don't know what the West is going to look like next year. Hell, the Spurs nearly lost to the Mavs this year.

 

LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mario Chalmers, Ray Allen, Norris Cole, Rashard Lewis, Chris Andersen

 

Those are the Heat top 8 in terms of minutes played during this playoff run.

 

If those are the top 8 next year (or something that at least would seem pretty equivalent (e.g. Lewis for Richard Jefferson), do you think they can win a championship next year?

 

Or would you say that they need a signficant change?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mario Chalmers, Ray Allen, Norris Cole, Rashard Lewis, Chris Andersen

 

Those are the Heat top 8 in terms of minutes played during this playoff run.

 

If those are the top 8 next year (or something that at least would seem pretty equivalent (e.g. Lewis for Richard Jefferson), do you think they can win a championship next year?

 

Or would you say that they need a signficant change?

 

I don't think signing that group is possible.

 

Can they win a title with that group? Probably not unless something weird happens in the West. Can they make the Finals? Yes.

 

I think everyone knows they need to get younger and more athletic.

 

The question is, how do they do it? If Wade opts in for 2 years/$40 million, they can't. They simply can't.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[No Excuses]

It's all about resting and allocating minutes. Bench LeBron against the Bucks and the Sixers. Probably bench him in division against the Bobcats and Magic for a few games. Spread it out over the season. Maybe they end up as a 48 win team. At least they are rested for the playoffs.

Edited June 17, 2014 by No Excuses

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It's all about resting and allocating minutes. Bench LeBron against the Bucks and the Sixers. Probably bench him in division against the Bobcats and Magic for a few games. Spread it out over the season. Maybe they end up as a 48 win team. At least they are rested for the playoffs.

I don't think you need to go that drastic. Especially since you are already being that drastic with Wade. Just keep him around 33 a game during the regular season.