***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[bobbi3stix]

So it's Lebron's fault that Chalmers played like **** in the finals?

Yeah, that and Benghazi are things that don't happen to Michael Jordan.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

The comparison talk is like arguing with your wife. Maybe worse lol.

Jordan doesn't take the Cav's to the finals like James did. There's no doubt in my mind.

But James doesn't take shots at the buzzer either. So it's a draw.

In the weak East with today's softer game.......Absolutely the GOAT could have taken that Cavs team to the finals.  Possibly, more than once.  I can tell you one thing, he wouldn't have quit and given up on them.  He didn't on the Bulls when they were only making the playoffs because of him at the start of his career.

 

Edit:  It's really hard to compare eras.  But the East was a lot stronger back then than it was when LeBron was with the Cavs in that finals trip, overall.  The first two rounds for the Cavs in 2006/07 were against two teams that were only .500 (Wizards and Nets).  They did knock off the Pistons who were the #1 seed, props for that.

 

I compared that to Jordan's 4th year in the league (since LeBron was in his fourth in 2006), The Bulls beat the Cavs who were .512 (barely above .500) and then had to face the Pistons the next round who were .659 and a solid strong vet team who went to the finals the next three straight years, losing that year to the Lakers, but winning two in a row.  

 

Also, in his 4th season Jordan was averaging 35.0 pts/game while LeBron averaged 27.3 pts/game.  Throw MJ in place of LeBron in 2006, the end result is most likely the same, they make the finals.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Sticksboi05]

The comparison talk is like arguing with your wife. Maybe worse lol.

Jordan doesn't take the Cav's to the finals like James did. There's no doubt in my mind.

But James doesn't take shots at the buzzer either. So it's a draw.

 

Which MJ are you getting, 1987 or 1993?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Which MJ are you getting, 1987 or 1993?

Doesn't matter.  In 86/87 Jordan averaged 35.0 pts/game and in 1993 he averaged 32.6 pts/game, both higher than LeBron with the Cavs team in 06/07.  

 

Pistons aside, the Cavs had a cake walk 1st and 2nd round that year to get to the conference championship against the Pistons.  Almost exactly like the cake walk the Heat had until the finals this year.

 

I make this argument as most people do about how LeBron would do back in the day when players got away with everything on defense.........imagine what MJ would have done in todays game, he would have been at the line probably shooting 50 FT/game.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Sticksboi05]

Doesn't matter.  In 86/87 Jordan averaged 35.0 pts/game and in 1993 he averaged 32.6 pts/game, both higher than LeBron with the Cavs team in 06/07.  

 

Pistons aside, the Cavs had a cake walk 1st and 2nd round that year to get to the conference championship against the Pistons.  Almost exactly like the cake walk the Heat had until the finals this year.

 

I make this argument as most people do about how LeBron would do back in the day when players got away with everything on defense.........imagine what MJ would have done in todays game, he would have been at the line probably shooting 50 FT/game.

 

LeBron's scoring wasn't the reason they made it, it was that he elevated the rest of his teammates.  Of course MJ averaged 35 ppg while winning DPOTY in 1987 which is as magical a season as it gets.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Sticksboi05

[daveakl]

LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mario Chalmers, Ray Allen, Norris Cole, Rashard Lewis, Chris Andersen

Those are the Heat top 8 in terms of minutes played during this playoff run.

If those are the top 8 next year (or something that at least would seem pretty equivalent (e.g. Lewis for Richard Jefferson), do you think they can win a championship next year?

Or would you say that they need a signficant change?

Of course they could. But it all depends on health and who they play. Spurs lose to Dallas in round 1 and OKC loses to Memphis.

Then what are we looking at?

LAC, Portland, Dallas, or Memphis? Think those 8 could win a series against one of those 4?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

LeBron's scoring wasn't the reason they made it, it was that he elevated the rest of his teammates.  Of course MJ averaged 35 ppg while winning DPOTY in 1987 which is as magical a season as it gets.

Right, but Jordan elevated the play of his teammates as well.  There is zero doubt in my mind that in today's softer NBA, that MJ would not have led the same Cavs team to the finals.  Now, the end result might have been different.  The Spurs still might have won the finals and MJ wouldn't have the perfect finals record that he does now (6-0 w/6 mvps).

[Bubble Screen]

Are people still trying to compare LeBron to MJ? Lol 6-0.. I think that says it all. Isn't Bron Bron 2-3 now? Lol

Move on, people.

[Kosher Ham]

There was not anyone close to the level of talent on both sides of the ball in Cleveland that Pippen was. (And I think Pippen is overrated)

No real shooters. At that point of his career Lebron was simply a bigger Allen Iverson.  

 

I don't know that I agree that Jordan elevated his team nearly as much as LeBron does.

 

With the exception...Jordan learned to trust his team more it seemed. Especially with that second run when they added Rodman. I wish I could remember which game it was, but Rodman shot 3's all day it seemed. I know he hit 3 in a row and maybe 4-5 for the game.

 

Teams were content to let MJ get his points. He alone could not beat you. He needed his role players and sidekick as much as anyone else.

 

That's not to say LeBron is better, because I believe Jordan was a better competitor, and his team feared losing as much as he hated it.

[Going Commando]

Jordan was a better player and better leader than LeBron. This is not even an interesting debate to me any more. LeBron is not in Jordan's class and never will be. The Larry Bird debate is far more interesting to me.

[@DCGoldPants]

I don't think anybody is saying Lebron isn't a hard worker, and doesn't try to get the most from his teammates. But the stories of how hard Jordan would practice. How hard he would basically force his teammates to practice with him are still out there. It was like a cult. If you didn't work as hard as possible with him, then you were shamed.

 

It showed when they played their games. Those guys who probably would have been fine NBA starters elsewhere became much better.

 

That's the difference. 

 

Maybe it was a combo of how hard Jordan pushed them, and how Phil coached them. Maybe it was the perfect combo.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I don't think anybody is saying Lebron isn't a hard worker, and doesn't try to get the most from his teammates. But the stories of how hard Jordan would practice. How hard he would basically force his teammates to practice with him are still out there. It was like a cult. If you didn't work as hard as possible with him, then you were shamed.

 

It showed when they played their games. Those guys who probably would have been fine NBA starters elsewhere became much better.

 

That's the difference. 

 

Maybe it was a combo of how hard Jordan pushed them, and how Phil coached them. Maybe it was the perfect combo.

This reminded me of an article I read in Sports Illustrated a while back, it was titled something like "The Greatest Game Played That Nobody Saw".  

 

It was about the original Dream Team and Jordan vs. Magic, and how intense it got in that scrimmage/practice against each other.  They each had their squad and went at each other, full trash talk, near fights breaking out, 200% full on intensity.  Guys pissed at each other after the practice game because they wanted to win that bad, regardless of a meaningless game.

[Sticksboi05]

There was not anyone close to the level of talent on both sides of the ball in Cleveland that Pippen was. (And I think Pippen is overrated)

No real shooters. At that point of his career Lebron was simply a bigger Allen Iverson.  

 

 

That's an insult to LeBron.  LeBron was a better facilitator than Iverson from the moment he came into the league.  Iverson was a chucker.  To be fair, he kind of had to be because who else was going to take shots on those 76ers teams but then again when you see what LeBron did with Cleveland...

Durant and Lebron are not the problems with their respective teams. Durant needs better role players and a better system. Lebron just needs better role players. Stars in the nba do not win titles alone, no matter what the media may say.

 

K.D. is a problem.  The problem is he lets Westbrook take too many shots down the stretch.  K.D. is the best player on OKC and it needs to show when the going gets tough.  This back and forth between him and Russell is not going to equate to any rings especially in a loaded Western Conference.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Sticksboi05

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

So is this gonna be the whole offseason '14-15 thread? Jordan nostalgia/Is _____ Better than him? 

Sometimes I think MJ was the worst thing to ever happen to the game...

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

LeBron will go down in NBA history as one of the greatest players to ever play the game.  I've always enjoyed watching him play because of my appreciation and love for the game, regardless if I like him or not.  

 

But all the talk about him being better than the GOAT is over with now imo.  I don't think it should even be a discussion anymore.  Top 5 all time argument, sure, all day long.  GOAT, nope, that door is shut.  He may just have to settle for being the runner up to MJ when its time to call it quits, which by no means is an insult to James.

So is this gonna be the whole offseason '14-15 thread? Jordan nostalgia/Is _____ Better than him? 

Sometimes I think MJ was the worst thing to ever happen to the game...

MJ was the best thing to happen to basketball when he hit the court.  Now as an owner......time will tell for my Hornets.  

Edited June 18, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

With that response I will bid this thread adieu. Tired of arguing about the NBA's past.

Decided to check back. I'm sure there will be moments where the talk is about the draft and FA moves but it will always come back to Jordan. Its like how every thread about a young QB in the ATN section devolves into an Andrew Luck thread.

It's unavoidable.

Edited June 18, 2014 by EvilMonkeyBoy

[Sticksboi05]

So is this gonna be the whole offseason '14-15 thread? Jordan nostalgia/Is _____ Better than him? 

Sometimes I think MJ was the worst thing to ever happen to the game...

 

Stop whining, a simple question of whether or not MJ would have taken the 07 Cavs to the Finals was brought up and a small side discussion ensued.  95% of this thread post-NBA Finals has been about the upcoming free agency period and what the Heat will do.  Spare us the dramatics.

[JoeWolf990]

I don't think anybody is saying Lebron isn't a hard worker, and doesn't try to get the most from his teammates. But the stories of how hard Jordan would practice. How hard he would basically force his teammates to practice with him are still out there. It was like a cult. If you didn't work as hard as possible with him, then you were shamed.

 

It showed when they played their games. Those guys who probably would have been fine NBA starters elsewhere became much better.

 

That's the difference. 

 

Maybe it was a combo of how hard Jordan pushed them, and how Phil coached them. Maybe it was the perfect combo.

how do you know Lebron isnt?

Its funny you all say this when the narrative on Lebron is that he is the best superstar teammate since Magic.

[Sticksboi05]

Unless some eastern team suddenly adds a lot of talent or the Pacers suddenly remember how to play as a team, the Heat have no threats in the east, and likely won't for 2-3 more years. If a Chicago gets Rose back and he's not terrible (I doubt he'll ever be what he was) and adds Melo, I could see them threatening the Heat but I'm not sure they'd win. Brooklyn is old and getting older.

 

Chicago as it is with what would be a "healthy" Derrick Rose, is no threat to Miami.  Indiana is going to have to re-tool.  Brooklyn is irrelevant.  All their hype was signing two has-beens. 

 

A great offseason by Larry Bird is the only way Miami has a legitimate threat in the East if the Big 3 all re-sign.

[JoeWolf990]

But all the talk about him being better than the GOAT is over with now imo.

he is 29 years old and still the best in the league, it is def not over and shouldnt be.

At the same age, Jordan had only gone to two finals and won 2 rings.

Lebron has gone to 5 finals, and won 2 rings.

[mcsluggo]

MJ was probably the greatest player in the history of the NBA.....   but he is definitely the most over-rated 

[CrypticVillain]

MJ was probably the greatest player in the history of the NBA.....   but he is definitely the most over-rated 

I honestly hear where you're coming from. Seriously, I get what you're saying. You don't have to explain yourself any further... But no. 

[Ozymandias]

 

But all the talk about him being better than the GOAT is over with now imo.  I don't think it should even be a discussion anymore.  Top 5 all time argument, sure, all day long.  GOAT, nope, that door is shut.  He may just have to settle for being the runner up to MJ when its time to call it quits, which by no means is an insult to James.

So if he wins 5 finals in the next 10 yearsand is finals MVP, he still won't be? I'm not saying he's gonna do that,but let the guy finish his career first. Why do people get so defensive when comparing lebron to Jordan. There's absolutely no comparison right now cause lebron isn't even 30 yet. He may not end up being better than Jordan, and most likely won't, but let the guy finish his career first.

[Bubble Screen]

So is this gonna be the whole offseason '14-15 thread? Jordan nostalgia/Is _____ Better than him?

Sometimes I think MJ was the worst thing to ever happen to the game...

smh

[Going Commando]

LeBron isn't the competitor that Jordan was. That's the reason he'll never be as great.

It's whatever. LeBron is the great player of his generation. I'm not sure fans today actually want to see and root for another competitor truly equivalent to Jordan. LeBron is the icon of a kinder, gentler, more player friendly NBA, and he's a product of the times.

But he's not better than Jordan was and never will be.