***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Mr. Sinister]

Let him get that 10 per.

 

He's probably one sleepless night away from doing some Delonte West-ish Desperado role playing type ****.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Mr. Sinister

[JoeWolf990]

3. The hero of the Miami season is Chris Bosh. He deserves a ton of praise. How many guys with that pedigree and that contract spend an off-season turning themselves into a credible three point threat? Last year, Hibbert could close out on his mid-range stuff and still protect the rim. By moving that shot out to the three-point line, he completely neutralized Hibbert as a force - on both ends, it seems. The blueprint for beating Indy is so so clear now that even Atlanta can execute a decent version of it. The Wizards' could not.

BOsh has sacrificed a lot of his game to make Miami work. He has been the unsung hero for that team the last 4 years.

In saying that, him not backing down George Hill in game 5 still sticks in my head to how much Miami's tactics have affected him.

In saying that, he was awful shooting in that Indy series. I think he was sub 30%

 

Shoot, he took only 2 on Friday, and the Heat blew the Pacers out.

I would rather see Bosh in the post or mid range than camped out at the 3 point line.

Jeremy Lamb is awful. He looked utterly lost on defense and tentative on offense.

 

Brooks probably deserves to lose his job, but he played Derek Fister a ton because he had to play Derek Fisher a ton.

Lamb was good in games 3 and 4 in Oklahoma City. Shot well, defended well. I think he had 3 steals in that game 4. Then we dont see dude again except for a blowout in game 5 and when the game was over in game 6.

His development is wholly on Brooks stunting him.

Edited June 2, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[Destino]

Maybe. This is like the great debate that's been going on in Houston all year - and that Shaq has exacerbated on tv. Do you feed Howard in the post? Or do you run the offense that the team is built to run. Houston became obsessed with feeding Dwight against Portland and it turned their Indy 500 offense into 4 guys standing around.

 

Shaq also goes into specifics as to how the bigs should get the ball because I think watching a guard dribble it 10 times while standing still at the top of the key drives him into a mouth foaming rage.  What he's always complaining about is that bigs run down the court, go straight to the rim and turn around.... but no one throws them the damn ball.  They sit there waiting for to set up a high pick and roll.  When the center finally does get the ball he's too far from the basket or later in the shot clock.  

 

Shaq enjoyed the triangle which always allowed the ball to immediately go to the low post and always gave that player easy passing options that were built in.  He didn't have to look for players because he already knew where everyone was supposed to be.  That makes passing a billion times easier than having to hold the ball high and look around for someone to move around and hope that you don't throw it out of bounds when that player decides to cut the other way.   

 

Also on the big man versus stretch 5 debate.  You trade low percentage shots for high percentage shots all day every day.  

 

The problem is that the Pacers didn't have that from Hibbert.  They didn't have a dominant Paul George either.  Sadly whatever happened in that locker room greatly effect both of the Pacers most important players.  I'm going to assume Hibbert and George accidentally killed someone until I heard otherwise.    

 

As for Houston, it's not easy to look that bad on defense with Howard defending the rim but they found a way to do it.  

Edited June 2, 2014 by Destino

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

His development is wholly on Brooks stunting him.

 

How many guys is Brooks supposed to "develop?"

 

He's been at least partly responsible for Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, Jackson, and now Adams becoming either amazing or credible NBA players. At some point, they need to give him a vet who already knows how to play basketball. The guy is trying to win a title, not compete at the junior world championships. There is probably not a coach in NBA history who has been given so many 20-somethings and seen them become studs.

 

You are acting like he is Tim Floyd, because Jeremy Lamb can't get any run.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Brooks for. This is certainly not one of them.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Also on the big man versus stretch 5 debate.  You trade low percentage shots for high percentage shots all day every day.  If they want to challenge your center with mid range shots and threes but in doing so give up dunks and rim attempts at over 50%?  Take it all day.  

 

 

Eh...maybe in 1995....or even in 2005.....but I'm not sure if that throwing to a big guy in the post is still effective, even if you have a big guy in the post - which no one does?

 

What's the word that Greg Popovich uses in every serious interview? Pace. Teams want to play with pace. They want to move side to side, because if you are stationary, defenses are just too good now.

 

Shaq was an outlier even in an era where there were still good centers. But no team is going to let you back down, I dunno, Jason Collins 35 times a game now.

 

Houston's players looked sad watching Dwight score all those points against Portland. It was weird.

[Mr. Sinister]

Kind of you to offer, but it is entirely unnecessary. 

 

Fwiw, I am kind of upset that Wade didn't add Stephenson to his kill list with a running DDT in the center of the court......

[JoeWolf990]

How many guys is Brooks supposed to "develop?"

 

He's been at least partly responsible for Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, Jackson, and now Adams becoming either amazing or credible NBA players. At some point, they need to give him a vet who already knows how to play basketball. The guy is trying to win a title, not compete at the junior world championships. There is probably not a coach in NBA history who has been given so many 20-somethings and seen them become studs.

 

You are acting like he is Tim Floyd, because Jeremy Lamb can't get any run.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Brooks for. This is certainly not one of them.

then blame Sam Presti for putting the team together and having young guys on the bench only.

They needed scoring off the bench, Lamb showed he could do it this season. Give him a go and see. It worked in games 3 and 4, and then Brooks stopped giving him meaningful minutes.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

They needed scoring off the bench, Lamb showed he could do it this season. Give him a go and see. It worked in games 3 and 4, and then Brooks stopped giving him meaningful minutes.

 

It didn't work in Games 3 and 4. He scored 13 points and was awful on defense. (Zach Lowe mentioned before Game 6 on his podcast that the consensus was that Lamb was so bad on D that he probably couldn't play any more in the series).

 

I'm also fascinated by these one-man crusades for obscure players. There is literally no one else that I've found screaming for more time for Lamb.

[Destino]

Fwiw, I am kind of upset that Wade didn't add Stephenson to his kill list with a running DDT in the center of the court......

 

Had Wade done that and herniated a disc in the process, I'd probably still be smiling.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

then blame Sam Presti for putting the team together and having young guys on the bench only.

 

 

In some ways, we are over-reacting. If Ibaka is healthy in Games 1 or 2, OKC might steal homecourt immediately and this is a totally different series. In most ways, everything Presti has done has worked. His team is really good, is making money, and is not near the luxury tax. 25 other teams would switch positions with him tomorrow.

 

In one specific way, this team is not trying to win its second or third title right now because of the Harden trade. All roads lead back to that. They gave up an All-NBA guard and got nothing back in return. But even that is not really Presti's fault.

 

OKC's "problem" (if it even has one) is its ownership not spending money.

 

Can anyone else name a team that lost an All NBA caliber player for nothing and still was a contender?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Destino]

What's the word that Greg Popovich uses in every serious interview? Pace. Teams want to play with pace. They want to move side to side, because if you are stationary, defenses are just too good now.

 

 

Pace is dictated largely by a savvy point guard.  The Pacers have George Hill and a crazy guy.  I think the offense itself plays and big role in ball movement.  If players have to rely on almost entirely on court vision and improvisation to move the ball, it's going to have a tendency to stick.  

 

Is there a more useless starting point guard in the league than George Hill?  

 

While the post game is dead and burried in the current NBA, you still have to take advantage of mismatches.  If most teams don't attack Miami inside, they might as well just put the bench in and give up.  The Pacers are one of those teams.  They absolutely had to beat Miami inside to have a chance.  

Edited June 2, 2014 by Destino

[Mr. Sinister]

Had Wade done that and herniated a disc in the process, I'd probably still be smiling.  

 

Nah, old man Wade is much more spry this time around. Trust me, the execution would've been flawless.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Pace is dictated largely by a savvy point guard.  The Pacers have George Hill and a crazy guy.  I think the offense itself plays and big role in ball movement.  If players have to rely on almost entirely on court vision and improvisation to move the ball, it's going to have a tendency to stick.  

 

Is there a more useless starting point guard in the league than George Hill?  

 

While the post game is dead and burried in the current NBA, you still have to take advantage of mismatches.  If most teams don't attack Miami inside, they might as well just put the bench in and give up.  The Pacers are one of those teams.  They absolutely had to beat Miami inside to have a chance.  

 

The Pacers have a gazillion problems on offense.

 

In theory, they need to pound Miami. I just don't know if Hibbert is capable of ever repeating that series. Or if Indy even gets to the ECF if they take that approach. I think the Wizards would have enjoyed the Pacers trying to pound the ball inside.

[JoeWolf990]

In some ways, we are over-reacting. If Ibaka is healthy in Games 1 or 2, OKC might steal homecourt immediately and this is a totally different series. In most ways, everything Presti has done has worked. His team is really good, is making money, and is not near the luxury tax. 25 other teams would switch positions with him tomorrow.

 

In one specific way, this team is not trying to win its second or third title right now because of the Harden trade. All roads lead back to that. They gave up an All-NBA guard and got nothing back in return. But even that is not really Presti's fault.

 

OKC's "problem" (if it even has one) is its ownership not spending money.

 

Can anyone else name a team that lost an All NBA caliber player for nothing and still was a contender?

but Presti is the one who made the trade? You can say he was forced into it, but he is the one who made the trade and decided to go with a bench of young players.

More than anything, he is keeping Brooks employed when he should be gone.

You can say the ownership is not willing to spend that much, and with the NBA luxury tax penalties can you blame them? But ultimately the team construction is on him. So no, not everything has worked for him.

While the post game is dead and burried in the current NBA

since when?

Just because there are not that many great post players, doesnt mean its dead.

[Destino]

The Pacers have a gazillion problems on offense.

In theory, they need to pound Miami. I just don't know if Hibbert is capable of ever repeating that series. Or if Indy even gets to the ECF if they take that approach. I think the Wizards would have enjoyed the Pacers trying to pound the ball inside.

The wizards still would have missed a billion free throws and lost.

[MattFancy]

but Presti is the one who made the trade? You can say he was forced into it, but he is the one who made the trade and decided to go with a bench of young players.

More than anything, he is keeping Brooks employed when he should be gone.

You can say the ownership is not willing to spend that much, and with the NBA luxury tax penalties can you blame them? But ultimately the team construction is on him. So no, not everything has worked for him.

 

 

Wait, so you agree that ownership hasn't been willing to spend money, but then blame the GM for not getting better players?

[JoeWolf990]

Wait, so you agree that ownership hasn't been willing to spend money, but then blame the GM for not getting better players?

every other team has to make due with this, why should Presti be an exception?

The Spurs have a smaller payroll than the Thunder for instance.

And yes, it is the GMs job to acquire the talent needed to win an NBA title.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

every other team has to make due with this, why should Presti be an exception?

The Spurs have a smaller payroll than the Thunder for instance.

And yes, it is the GMs job to acquire the talent needed to win an NBA title.

 

Agreed. But I really don't know what Presti's orders are from above. No GM trades Harden when he did just on a whim.

 

I think Presti is a brilliant drafter of talent. Filling out the roster has not been his strength - though again, he traded a top ten player. Like I said, I can't look at OKC's roster without always coming back to two facts:

 

1. They traded away James Freaking Harden for a bag of hammers, and

2. Sefolosha had one of the worst contract years in recent NBA history.

By the way, I'm not saying OKC should keep Brooks or Presti. I would probably replace Brooks because I think the next steps for OKC are not things he thrives at. I do think he is pretty good at a lot of things though.

 

I would probably keep Presti for the time being, because the team is capped out. No GM can come in and make any real signings for a while. I would keep the proven drafter in that scenario.

[pjfootballer]

I'd rather see the Spurs win it, even though I'd rather neither team win it. Time for some new blood in the finals.

[ZRagone]

Again, I like Durant but he gets a HUGE pass compared to what LeBron had to endure before he won a title.

 

Durant, just in the past few years, has barely gotten into the conversation for best player in the NBA today...and even then, it's usually with everyone clearly acknowledging LeBron is ahead of him.

 

That's far different than LeBron, where the Michael Jordan comparisons and discussions about his place on the ALL TIME GREATS list was being debated and pushed at a similar point in time as Durant is going through.

 

LeBron got a lot of push back, and less of a pass, because the levels that people were trying to put LeBron were significantly higher.

 

LeBron and his fans like to have their cake and eat it too. They like to talk about how much extra pressure was on LeBron so early, but want to ignore that he welcomed that kind of pressure by actions HE took such as dubbing himself "The King" right off...wearing MJ's number...doing a freaking prime time television show to "take his talents to south beach" followed by not four, not five, not six.....

 

Durant gets a "pass" compared to LeBron because the situations are entirely different

[Chew]

 

 

Durant gets a "pass" compared to LeBron because the situations are entirely different

 

a random question to basketball fans, if the situations were reversed, and Durant was on the Heat with Wade and Bosh, would he win an NBA championship? 

 

I'd say yes...

[bobbi3stix]

a random question to basketball fans, if the situations were reversed, and Durant was on the Heat with Wade and Bosh, would he win an NBA championship? 

 

I'd say yes...

 

I confidently say NO. Durant is just not as rounded as James in not just ability on the court but even more as a leader. Durant is by no doubt a better shooter, but there's more to being a championship type player than Durant has shown. And if James were on the Thunder, they'd be winning championships.

Durant, just in the past few years, has barely gotten into the conversation for best player in the NBA today...and even then, it's usually with everyone clearly acknowledging LeBron is ahead of him.

 

That's far different than LeBron, where the Michael Jordan comparisons and discussions about his place on the ALL TIME GREATS list was being debated and pushed at a similar point in time as Durant is going through.

 

LeBron got a lot of push back, and less of a pass, because the levels that people were trying to put LeBron were significantly higher.

 

LeBron and his fans like to have their cake and eat it too. They like to talk about how much extra pressure was on LeBron so early, but want to ignore that he welcomed that kind of pressure by actions HE took such as dubbing himself "The King" right off...wearing MJ's number...doing a freaking prime time television show to "take his talents to south beach" followed by not four, not five, not six.....

 

Durant gets a "pass" compared to LeBron because the situations are entirely different

 

 

James was getting those expectations while he was a teenager.

Edited June 2, 2014 by bobbi3stix

[Destino]

People that ask "why isn't Durant getting killed like Lebron did?!" The answer is because Lebron jumped to a super team and in doing so killed the argument that Durant should simply win where he is. Lebron never overcame the hardship in Cleveland. He got to the finals and lost badly once but mostly came up short in the playoffs. Sound familiar? If the Thunder add Blake Griffin, then Durant is in Lebron's situation.

This is not an argument that what Lebron did was bad or that he's bad or anything like that. All I'm saying is that it changed the comparison argument, not that it in anyway diminishes Lebron.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Destino

[ixcuincle]

Heat in 6

[Hersh]

OKC desperately needs someone that has some semblance of a post game. They have no one they can throw the ball inside to since Obaka is really a jump shooter and certainly no one to demand a double team down low that would really open up their half court game.