Going Commando Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 His future awards are pretty much tied to the Wizard's future success. The first and second round were the first time since the Gilbert era that people said, "Hey....Washington has a basketball team....and it's not bad." The Gilber era was the first time since the Webber Era that happened. Both eras were 6 weeks long, I think. Of course, next year, Rose and Rondo will probably go 1 and 2 in MVP voting. Yeah, the Wizards haven't been truly relevant since the end of the 70's. It's a mark of just how irrelevant they are that nobody outside the area has heard of their curse. The Wizards's uncanny losing and bad luck can stand up to anyone. You are talking about near total failure of comical proportions in almost every single move made for 30 years. When you've got the old timers talking wistfully about the Jeff Ruland days, you know it's been bad for a long time. As someone on RealGM said, the Wizards haven't been relevant since Iran had a Shah. We did most of it to ourselves certainly. I'd challenge anyone to find a worse GM than Wes Unseld. Lost so many trades. If there was a wrong choice, we made it. A lot of depressingly awful injury luck too. Michael Jordan failed for the first time in his basketball life in D.C. Being the Shaqtin a Fool All Stars was especially painful. That's not the relevancy we wanted. I preferred being totally, anonymously awful. So if John Wall actually turns the Wizards into a respectable brand and perennial playoff presence, there won't have been another top lotto pick who has done as much for their franchise since LeBron in Cleveland. John is one of the biggest on/off difference makers in the league, something that a lot of people don't realize. The team literally goes from 5-28 to a little over .500 when he steps onto the court. He's going to go down as the best Wizard since 1981. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) the lesson i take...is that there are very few actual superstars. Kevin love is not one of them. you can blow up things to get Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, in their primes. You kill yourself blowing things up to get a second tier star (a bosh, a tony parker, a kevin love, a carmelo, an amare) right now, lebron, and <probably> durant are the ONLY super stars worth blowing thing up to secure. ANYBODY else is too expensive for the expense, unless they come to you gift wrapped. That's probably true. I think you can occasionally draw to an inside straight and win a title (See the '99 Spurs, '04 Pistons, and '11 Mavericks). But for the most part, since 1980, the team that wins either has the best player in the league or two of the ten best players in the league. (In fairness, the Spurs don't really fit that mold right now unless you are really really high on Kawhi Leonard. They are following the Pistons model and doing it better than anyone else has ever done). This is the reason why "titles won" are a relevent part (if overblown) part of the discussion of all-time greats in the NBA where it is pointless in every other sport. The truly transcendent players ALWAYS win a title in the NBA. The only one I can think of who did not is Barkley....and your mileage may vary on Barkley. It's also the reason why "winning a title" is a pretty unfair measure for a team, coach, or player in the NBA. Over any fifteen year period, only about six or seven people really can tip the scales for deciding who wins titles. And that includes coaches, you can literally be the fifth best player in basketball for ten years and have it be reasonable that you never reach an NBA Finals. Chris Paul might be the best pure point guard ever, but he's played in the era of Kobe, Duncan/Pop, and Durant. What chance has he really ever had? Edited June 5, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Michael Jordan failed for the first time in his basketball life in D.C. Yea. But I don't think that was a fluke. Jordan believed then and still believes now that you can run an NBA team from the golf course in another state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The lesson I take away is never go for one superstar unless you have a way to get another. We can debate all day long about whether what Houston is doing is right and whether the pieces will ever fit. But Morey made damn sure that he had a puncher's chance at getting another worthy max player once he got Harden. Having one superstar and no options makes you the Knicks. Having two superstars and no options makes you OKC. Again, say what you will about OKC, but I'd rather be them for the next five years than the Knicks. There's always a chance that some 2nd rounder blooms into a credible third option or some MLE vet has a renaissance season and that puts you over the top. The Knicks need miracles just to be competitive in the East despite having one of the best pure scorers ever. (You also need to make sure those pieces fit. Everyone knew Boston's big three would fit from the beginning. Miami's big three were a little shaky at first, but Riley counted on Lebron and Bosh's versatility along with everyone's bball IQ. It still took them about 18 months to really figure out their roles. Melo and Amare don't really make sense together even if Amare is in his prime and healthy). Oh I think Houston did it the right way. The only teams with the same kind of championship window over the next five years as Houston are OKC, LAC, Portland, and New Orleans IMO. Almost everyone would rather be one of those five teams for the next five years. And the key to it all for Houston was getting Dwight to walk away from 30 million to sign in UFA. The 2011 CBA really neutered the effectiveness of S&Ts. That ended up working in Houston's favor IMO, because it disincentivized Dwight and LA to seek a S&T. Now Houston has a two star construction WITH solid role players and the cap space to add more. Giving up sooo little for Harden was also pretty key. But Harden was in a bit of a buy low situation at the time. He was an Olympian and All Star and coming off a finals appearance. But as the third or fourth best player on that team, a sixth man, and his scoring numbers hand't exploded. If everyone knows Harden is a 25 PPG scorer the next season, Houston has to give up way more to get him. But actually Harden is a potential wrench in Houston's plans IMO. Dwight is good to go, he's a true blue superstar in his prime. Harden's defense and night in and night out effort are problematic. Houston's run and gun offensive philosophy is problematic. Houston's inability to play any sort of defense despite having Dwight Howard and Omer Asik as their bigs is also a big problem. All of those things have to be addressed for Houston to make the final leap to true contention. Regarding OKC, they're in a great situation. Two stars and limited options is fine when they're so young and you've also got Ibaka and at least something pretty promising in Adams. That's a foundation. If they can get both Durant and Westbrook to spend their careers in OKC, they will win titles eventually because they are very close. They're basically just a bench away this season. New York was never close. If Boston or the Lakers trade a bunch of stuff for Kevin Love, they won't be close. If the Wizards trade Beal for Love, they won't be close either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If the Wizards trade Beal for love, I'm starting a riot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 By the way, I remembered Bill Simmons making a joke about Jordan scouting the 2002 draft by watching a Final Four weekend with Popeye Jones and found his 2002 draft diary: http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020627 How did the league survive this draft? I also love Simmons' total confidence that "Yao over Jay Williams" was going to be "Bowie over Jordan." Granted, Jay Wiliams' career ended for non-basketball reasons, but Yao turned out to be be pretty great and Williams played one season. 2002 was apparently the year the league decided to just pull the names of Euros out of a hat and hope for the best. It did not work out. I have absolutely no memory of Nikoloz Tskitishvili. And he went #4 overall. Did anyone here ever see a minute of his NBA career? He apparently played 172 games so it may have happened by accident. Something else I did not know: Chris Wilcox is still in the league. Good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) New York was never close. If Boston or the Lakers trade a bunch of stuff for Kevin Love, they won't be close. If the Wizards trade Beal for Love, they won't be close either. Here is where I become me (and maybe Dennis Rodman and Isiah Thomas)...........feel free to ignore this. How much of the hype around Kevin Love tied to the fact that he is a white American All Star? I mean, he puts up numbers at a ridiculous clip but so do a lot of guys who have never been treated like potential franchise saviors (Al Jefferson has been basically an 18/9 true low post player since he joined the league. DeMarcus Cousins throws up 20/10s seemingly without trying and, again, has a real low post game). Kevin Love is never on national tv outside of the Olympics and All Star games so I just wonder how much of his appeal is people fantasizing about him coming to their hometown and becoming Larry Bird. I mean, does a team of Kevin Love, Rajon Rondo, and a bunch of castoffs actually do anything in the East? If I was Boston, I would want a different superstar or just a plan to stay the course for another year and hold onto my 50 first round draft picks. Kevin Love has always looked really comfortable in the All-Star/Intenational Games where he is the fourth or fifth option. He's never battled for that alph dog status in those games the way Lebron, Kobe, or even Melo do. Melo deserves a ton of criticism for a lot of reasons. But when he teams up with Lebron, he doesn't automatically defer to him. He sees himself on that level. Love - to me - seems like someone who would be fantastic in a Chris Bosh or Ray Allen or James Worthy role - the flexible third piece on a great team. Edited June 5, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If Yao stayed healthy, I'm convinced the Rockets would have won a ring or pretty close to it. Dude was becoming a monster. What do you think about that LKB? You would know more about that than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) If Yao stayed healthy, I'm convinced the Rockets would have won a ring or pretty close to it. Dude was becoming a monster. What do you think about that LKB? You would know more about that than I. I was late to the Yao party in Houston. I moved here in '09. Everything with Yao starts with "When healthy..." Three things stand out with Yao: 1. He was stronger than everyone expected. As I've mentioned before, I've seen him up close and he is built like a 7'5 outhouse. He is not a stick like Shawn Bradley. He was really wide - almost like Kevin McHale. Except 7 inches taller. And he really strong, especially in his lower body. I think NBA players expected to be able to push him around, and they couldn't because his base was so strong. He wasn't terribly strong in the upper body, but that's less important to a post player. 2. He was not afraid of anyone. Shaq clearly thought that he would dunk on Yao twice and Yao would run for cover. Yao loved playing Shaq and never backed down from him. 3. Yao was a fantastic free throw shooter. Houston had a great advantage because they could feed their 7'5 superstar late in games and count on him to knock down free throws. How many 7 footers in history ever shot 85 percent from the line? So, yes, a team with a 7'5 tough guy who puts up a 25/10 while shooting 85 percent from the line could definitely win a title. But....I don't think there is anyone to change his story. He was a roll of the dice not because of his talent. He was really good the second he entered the league. The problem was guys over 7'2 not named Kareem always end up with foot and ankle problems. And again, he was a 300 hundred pounder. He probably would have had problems if he came up in AAU ball. The fact that he played a gazillion games on crappy Asian basketball courts sealed his fate. His body never got a chance to rest. It's really a shame, because he could have become the ultimate weapon in basketball under the perfect cicumstances. By the way, there is nothing in life like seeing Yao up close in person. It looks like he could pick up Kevin McHale or Hakeem and carry them on his shoulders so they can see the firetrucks in the 4th of July parade. Edited June 5, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Granted he's out of shape here, but this pic puts Yao's size in proper perspective: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 That's Yao, Ralph Sampson, Dwight Howard, Hakeem, and Elvin Hayes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 My goodness. Makes my man Watt look like a little teenager lol At first glance I thought Hayes was Mutumbo. lol I don't think I made an "official" prediction. But I'm calling Spurs in 6. I expect a huge redemption type series from Manu. I also think Kwahi Leonard introduces himself to the world as a bona fide star in this league. I do expect Wade to have a good series, Lebron's going to be Lebron, and Bosh will have a game where he goes off. But I just can't see the Spurs losing this series again. Also, I just found out yesterday, that they're playing the 2-2-1-1-1 format again. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 i think Yao's head is bigger than i am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Watt is 6'5" and goes about 285. Pictures of Yao next to things should really be a daily blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) That's probably true. I think you can occasionally draw to an inside straight and win a title (See the '99 Spurs, '04 Pistons, and '11 Mavericks). But for the most part, since 1980, the team that wins either has the best player in the league or two of the ten best players in the league. (In fairness, the Spurs don't really fit that mold right now unless you are really really high on Kawhi Leonard. They are following the Pistons model and doing it better than anyone else has ever done). This is the reason why "titles won" are a relevent part (if overblown) part of the discussion of all-time greats in the NBA where it is pointless in every other sport. The truly transcendent players ALWAYS win a title in the NBA. The only one I can think of who did not is Barkley....and your mileage may vary on Barkley. It's also the reason why "winning a title" is a pretty unfair measure for a team, coach, or player in the NBA. Over any fifteen year period, only about six or seven people really can tip the scales for deciding who wins titles. And that includes coaches, you can literally be the fifth best player in basketball for ten years and have it be reasonable that you never reach an NBA Finals. Chris Paul might be the best pure point guard ever, but he's played in the era of Kobe, Duncan/Pop, and Durant. What chance has he really ever had? Yeah, but you can't ignore all of the contingencies that could have lost titles for our greatest players along the way. Even Jordan had to win game sevens. It's not: get the best player in the game and then championship! Cleveland couldn't beat Boston with LeBron. And at that point, I wouldn't call any of KG, Pierce, or Allen top ten players in the league. Kobe was probably the third best player in the league in 2008, but he wasn't in 2009. And neither Pau nor Bynum were top ten players. When the Mavs won, and when the Spurs won it last, did they have a top five player? Dirk was a top ten player in 2011, but I'm not sure anyone has been a top ten player on the Spurs since Duncan was back in the early to mid 2000's. Neither Wade nor Shaq were top five players in 2006. The only champions since 2004 that really had one of the two or three best players or two top ten players were LA in 2008 and the LeBron Heat. Other thoughts: LAC had two top five players this year and OKC just... beat them. Memphis came extremely close to beating OKC. Houston has two top ten players and Portland beat them. Then San Antonio dismantles Portland despite the fact SA probably doesn't have a top fifteen individual player. Kevin Love and Carmelo Anthony are arguably top ten players and didn't even make the playoffs. To me that says that the separation between the top players isn't that big. What's the difference between Dwight and Aldridge and Harden and Lillard? Not enough to beat Portland when Portland's superior role players can be a big difference in a playoff series. The league has changed in some ways. Not gotten easier to win a title, but FOs matter more now. You can't just luck into great players and expect to win, you have to build a really really good team too. And I think the 2011 CBA really makes three star constructions incredibly difficult moving forward. That's opening up the league even more for everyone. EDIT: Whups, I got the Lakers's dates mixed up. When I said 2008, I think I meant 2009. And for 2009, I meant 2010. Edited June 5, 2014 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 ... and how often has Elvin Hayes been in a room where he is the shortest person??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Nice throwback from Sports Center today. June 5, 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0yEpStN0rds Edited June 5, 2014 by Sticksboi05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Man, Horace Grant's goggles were so boss. Subliminally why I always used him and Scottie in NBA Jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dwight Howard might be in some serious trouble... some 16 year old is saying that he flew her out to TX, wined/dined her, etc... She's mad and said she's gonna bring him down. Ruh-oh. The text screen shots (and pics) are out there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I was just joking about Delonte West on this thread, and then this shows up, and now I feel bad. http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/06/delonte_west_he_was_branded_as_crazy_and_became_the_subject_of_a_vicious.html He really always seemed like the ideal first guard of the bench for a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) ^^ I'm just happy that West was caught driving a Can-Am Spyder, those things are vicious and I want to have one but everybody would make fun of me because it has 3 wheels and is for old people. Now, I don't even care, there is just too much fun to be had on one. I don't think so suckas, looks like the joke is on you now... (said from my new Can Am Spyder) Edited June 5, 2014 by Momma There Goes That Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 i think Yao's head is bigger than i am He's got that huge rectangle head that you often see on a pro fighter that's near impossible to knock out. Only bigger because he's a giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Pretty pumped for the Finals. Looked like the 2 best teams all year. Should be a good one. Edited June 5, 2014 by STBonecrusher21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 And if you're not down with this, I got three words for you... DEFEAT THE HEAT!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 DEFEAT THE HEAT!!!! amen, brotha. Sinister is my boy, but I hope a week from now, he's all like: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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