***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Going Commando]

Yeah LKB, I agree about Lamb. I'm not seeing it with him. I saw flashes of what might be with him. He's all long arms and athleticism right now. OKC is right to bring him along slowly. Brooks can't trust him yet.

Steven Adams is farther ahead than Lamb right now. And give credit for Brooks going to him more as it became clear he was getting comfortable.

Sefalosha and Perkins have become pretty much useless. Fisher's effectiveness is extremely limited. Basically he's just there for leadership and spotting up from three. Those were three heavy rotation players for OKC this season that wouldn't have even made the rotation of most of the other playoffs teams. They wouldn't have gotten on the court for the Wizards. That's a pretty low bar for a team that's supposed to be an annual contender.

They really did only have four guys you could trust. Collison is another who can only play a very limited role. There is definitely something there with Adams, but he was too young this year. Fouled too much.

Losing Harden and then a poor man's version of him in KMart really sunk the bench. They let KMart walk but were cheapskates and didn't replace him. They didn't do anything this offseason! OKC shouldn't be running a daycare on it's bench, sacrificing their ability to contend. That team should be loading up. They've been in the window of legit title contention the past three seasons. Quality role players do not have to cost a fortune. You can get championship caliber ones for MLE money. But OKC hasn't pursued any.

[DM72]

I just saw Max Kellerman's tweet. I think he has a good point.

"Durant is way to comfortable not demanding the ball. Feels that he's relieved Westbrook is there to take the pressure off of him."

Again, I like Durant but he gets a HUGE pass compared to what LeBron had to endure before he won a title.

Edited June 2, 2014 by DM72

[CrypticVillain]

3. The hero of the Miami season is Chris Bosh. He deserves a ton of praise. How many guys with that pedigree and that contract spend an off-season turning themselves into a credible three point threat? Last year, Hibbert could close out on his mid-range stuff and still protect the rim. By moving that shot out to the three-point line, he completely neutralized Hibbert as a force - on both ends, it seems. The blueprint for beating Indy is so so clear now that even Atlanta can execute a decent version of it. The Wizards' could not.

Yet, if the Wizards made some free throws, the series could have turned out different...

 

But I digress.

 

Bosh is the hero for just this season, Bosh is the hero of the big three era. Without him, I don't think they win any of their championships. With just Wade and James, the Heat might have gotten to one or two finals, but with Bosh, they could win three straight. He is the key to this series. 

I just saw Max Kellerman's tweet. I think he has a good point.

"Durant is way to comfortable not demanding the ball. Feels that he's relieved Westbrook is there to take the pressure off of him."

He is man. 

What kills me is that we all got on Lebron for what he was doing late in games, but nobody ever talks about how, at times, KD disappears in the clutch. Sure we can blame Westrbook, but KD is arguably the second best basketball player in the world. He should demand the ball when his team needs buckets. 

[No Excuses]

The Wizards didn't have a stretch 4 to really challenge Indiana. Gooden was fairly effective but at the end of the day he's Drew Gooden, a guy whose best fit is as an emergency backup rather than the first big man off the bench.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

 

What kills me is that we all got on Lebron for what he was doing late in games, but nobody ever talks about how, at times, KD disappears in the clutch. Sure we can blame Westrbook, but KD is arguably the second best basketball player in the world. He should demand the ball when his team needs buckets. 

 

I always hate this discussion.

What does "demand the ball" even mean? Give it to him at mid-court and run an iso? Run him through six Reggie Miller screens while everyone stands around? Give him a lob in the high post?

 

We did this for years with Lebron and it still happens - like in Game 5. Why didn't Lebron force an ugly layup in Hibbert's face? That was the right shot (if it had gone in). The pass to Bosh was cowardice....unless Bosh makes it.

 

We judge "clutchness" (which doesn't really exist) on results - which is so reductive.

[CrypticVillain]

I always hate this discussion.

What does "demand the ball" even mean? Give it to him at mid-court and run an iso? Run him through six Reggie Miller screens while everyone stands around? Give him a lob in the high post?

 

We did this for years with Lebron and it still happens - like in Game 5. Why didn't Lebron force an ugly layup in Hibbert's face? That was the right shot (if it had gone in). The pass to Bosh was cowardice....unless Bosh makes it.

 

We judge "clutchness" (which doesn't really exist) on results - which is so reductive.

There have been times when Durant is literally just standing and watching Durant do his thing. 

 

He could be doing something to try and get the ball. I'm not saying that he needs to go punch Westbrook and take the ball from him, but he cannot, and should not, just be standing there watching.

[PeterMP]

What kills me is that we all got on Lebron for what he was doing late in games, but nobody ever talks about how, at times, KD disappears in the clutch. Sure we can blame Westrbook, but KD is arguably the second best basketball player in the world. He should demand the ball when his team needs buckets. 

 

I actually think you can argue that he's the best.  I'd take Lebron over him, but I wouldn't deny that it was an argument that could be made.  I wouldn't say that somebody that thought that KD was the best was just stupid or ignorant.  Especially on the offensive end in terms of scoring (which would be most relevant in terms of demanding the ball when his team needs buckets).

 

It is an interesting situation.  Though I'm less sure how much of that was really their  problem vs. the injury to Ibaka and their lack of bench (though others seem to want to blame that on not utilizing their bench properly by the coach, but I'm not sure).

 

Though, it does seem likely that they would be better if Westbrook looked to penetrate and pass more.

 

Realistically, when you need buckets, I'd actually put the ball in Westbrook's hand, BUT have him more often draw/distract the defense and then get it into Durant's hands.

 

But I also think Westbrook likely is who he is and that's a very good basketball player in his own right, but not somebody that is a great passer.

 

(I'll also point out that I think even currently, with the ball in Westbrook's hands, KD is more of a threat, then Westbrook is when the ball is in KD's hands.  KD doesn't seem like he does a good job of getting the ball to Westbrook in a position where Westbrook wants to score (and partly that is because Westbrook doesn't seem to be a good catch and shoot (3 pt. shooter) player).  Westbrook more frequently gets the ball to KD where he can score from than the other way around.  

 

Now, the solution to that problem might be that KD needs to become a better passer, Westbrook needs to do a better job of playing off the ball offense/spacing (e.g. learn to shoot better) or they need a new coach that does a better job of creating an offense that integrates them together more fully.)

Edited June 2, 2014 by PeterMP

[CrypticVillain]

And I didn't say KD wasn't clutch. We know he is. I just hate that more often than not, he's been non-existent in the clutch during the playoffs. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The Wizards didn't have a stretch 4 to really challenge Indiana. Gooden was fairly effective but at the end of the day he's Drew Gooden, a guy whose best fit is as an emergency backup rather than the first big man off the bench.

 

Miami used a stretch 5 in this series. A stretch four clears space. A stretch 5 created a race track.

 

It was staggering how easy it was for Lebron to get to the rim in this series. Hibbert spent the entire series 10 feet from the basket, looking constipated because he didn't know what to do. Stumble at Lebron? Leave Bosh wide open for 3? Starting Lewis at the 4 AND getting a major contribution from him meant that there was no one within a mile of the rim when Lebron or Wade or even Chalmers drove. Hell, if Chalmers was any kind of finisher, he would have averaged 20 ppg in that series because no one could stay in front of him.

[CrypticVillain]

Now, the solution to that problem might be that KD needs to become a better passer

Maybe a combination of that, and he needs to post up more. I know that is everybody's go-to when a player needs to add something to their arsenal, but KD adding a post game could open up the offense even more. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

There have been times when Durant is literally just standing and watching Durant do his thing. 

 

He could be doing something to try and get the ball. I'm not saying that he needs to go punch Westbrook and take the ball from him, but he cannot, and should not, just be standing there watching.

 

Every NBA team's last minute offense seems to break down into isos that lead to drive and kicks. By and large, drive and kick is a pretty good formula for OKC. I would rather have Westbrook penetrating and looking for Durant than the opposite.

 

I really think the issue for OKC is that no one fears anyone on the court other than Durant or Westbrook in the closing moments. You have to get a body on Ibaka, but you can completely ignore the other two players on the court.

 

Compare that to San Antonio who always has five guys capable of scoring on the floor. And Miami who in "clutch" situations usually has four future Hall of Famers. I mean, the third option is usually an all-star or the greatest jump shooter of all time.

 

Sefolosha becoming a DNP in the playoffs didn't help matters. Once upon a time, he was at least a somewhat credible corner three point threat that you had to ackowledge. Does anyone have a clue what happened to that dude? Did he pick up a parasite somewhere? He was set to cash in this offseason, now it's a question of how much longer he will be in the league.

[CrypticVillain]

I hear you LKB about the last minute offense. But I am talking more about the last four to five minutes of the game. When the Thunder could have closed game outs, KD becomes too hesitant. And Westbrook is going 100 miles an hour shooting the ball with like 13 seconds left on the shot clock. lol

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So you are telling me that Reggie Jackson, Fisher, Caron Butler, Seflosha, Adams, Collison, and Lamb is nobody off the bench?

 

Considering that Jackson and Adams had to become starters because the starters at their positions are so terrible...yes, that's a lousy bench.

 

Outside of Jackson - who, again, is a starter - there is not one dude there capable of scoring 11 points in a quarter. Fisher and Butler single-handidly neutralize OKC's insane athletic advantages better than any defensive strategy could do. Collison sets great screens and does all those "dirty work" plays, but can't score. Lamb was a disaster in the playoffs.

 

Next year is make or break for Lamb. He has to become someone that can be the first wing player off the bench or he's going to be a career DNP guy.

[mcsluggo]

That's pretty normal right ?

 

of course it is.   But lots of people seem to think it only applies to LBJ... 

[PeterMP]

Maybe a combination of that, and he needs to post up more. I know that is everybody's go-to when a player needs to add something to their arsenal, but KD adding a post game could open up the offense even more. 

 

Well, I think KD would be better if he had a real post game.  But I'm not sure how much better the team would be because they seem to lack shooters (to carry over what LKB has been saying), without Sefolosha acting as a credibile corner 3 shooter, I'm not sure taking the guy that is realistically your best 3 pt. shooter and putting him in the post makes much sense.

[Destino]

I just saw Max Kellerman's tweet. I think he has a good point.

"Durant is way to comfortable not demanding the ball. Feels that he's relieved Westbrook is there to take the pressure off of him."

Again, I like Durant but he gets a HUGE pass compared to what LeBron had to endure before he won a title.

I think that this is exactly wrong. Durant and Westbrook are too likely not to give the ball up. The media has this insane idea that stars always have to take the biggest shots but this has never been true. The entire point of commanding two or three defenders is to create easy shots for others. OKC hands the ball to Durant or Westbrook and they try to get a shot up. The Spurs and the Heat stars pass out of double teams, even in late game situations.

Also why shouldn't Durant defer to Westbrook? Does anyone **** and moan when Duncan lets Parker shoot it or vice versa? Teams are built around multiple stars for a reason and one of those reasons is exactly what Max fears most, taking some if the pressure off other players. The media just likes to create drama and they worship star players. They don't want to talk about role players hitting or missing game winners. They want to talk about stars winning and losing as if the rest of the team wasn't there.

OKC's bench was out scored 50 to 5. Let's talk about Durant not shooting enough.

This is just as ridiculous as the media crying about Lebron passing to Bosh instead of throwing up some awkward garbage against two defenders at the rim.

Considering that Jackson and Adams had to become starters because the starters at their positions are so terrible...yes, that's a lousy bench.

Outside of Jackson - who, again, is a starter - there is not one dude there capable of scoring 11 points in a quarter. Fisher and Butler single-handidly neutralize OKC's insane athletic advantages better than any defensive strategy could do. Collison sets great screens and does all those "dirty work" plays, but can't score. Lamb was a disaster in the playoffs.

Next year is make or break for Lamb. He has to become someone that can be the first wing player off the bench or he's going to be a career DNP guy.

Is Perry Jones even allowed to shoot the ball? He was a guy with a ton of upside coming out of college, but he's gotten no burn in OKC and when he does they seem to ask him to be a Collison type player. The world has forgotten him. Edited June 2, 2014 by Destino

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

 OKC shouldn't be running a daycare on it's bench, sacrificing their ability to contend. That team should be loading up. They've been in the window of legit title contention the past three seasons. Quality role players do not have to cost a fortune. You can get championship caliber ones for MLE money. But OKC hasn't pursued any.

 

San Antonio doesn't count, because no one's front office finds ridiculously effective role players from, like, central Asian nations like that team. But Miami is not screwing around when it comes to its bench. All of those dudes are limited to pretty much one role and can't play more than 12 minutes a night (aside from Cole and maybe Birdman), but Spoelstra has options. He has energy guys. He has spot up shooters. He has rebounders. He has defenders.

 

I don't expect Lewis to play much at all against SA. Their wings will run him into dust. But it wouldn't shock me at all if Haslem suddenly makes a big contribution.

 

Once Brooks bit the bullet and make Jackson and Adams starters, he was out of his already limited options. What do you do at that point? Bring in Perkins for something or other?

 

That bench reminds me of the late 80s Celtics "Just try not to blow these lead too badly" bench that featured players like Fred Roberts, Greg Kite, and Darren Daye.

 

(Seriously, re-watch the "There's a steal by Bird" game the next time its on NBA tv or whatever. Detroit's bench had Vinny Johnson playing 27 minutes, Dennis Rodman giving 21 minutes, and John Salley playing 17 minutes. Boston got 22 minutes from Darren Daye - who was 26 years old and had only 47 more NBA games in his future. 10 from Sam Vincent. And 7 from the immortal Fred Roberts. Jerry Sichting (who was actually kind of okay at one time) played 6 minutes.

[Destino]

Miami used a stretch 5 in this series. A stretch four clears space. A stretch 5 created a race track.

It was staggering how easy it was for Lebron to get to the rim in this series. Hibbert spent the entire series 10 feet from the basket, looking constipated because he didn't know what to do. Stumble at Lebron? Leave Bosh wide open for 3? Starting Lewis at the 4 AND getting a major contribution from him meant that there was no one within a mile of the rim when Lebron or Wade or even Chalmers drove. Hell, if Chalmers was any kind of finisher, he would have averaged 20 ppg in that series because no one could stay in front of him.

It only worked because Hibbert wasn't dominant offensively like he was last year. The Pacers last season weren't a great offensive team either but Hibbert averaged 20+ and shot over 50%. I think Vogel made a huge mistake not getting Hibbert the ball early and often throughout the regular season assuming he would just turn into Shaq again when they played the Heat. He got a taste of the limelight and even in college they know that if you stop feeding the bigs, they stop working. The ones that want the ball anyway. All season Hibbert made mention of "the gameplan" and he was clearly talking about having very few plays run for him or getting the ball too far from the basket.

He's not a great offensive player but he's shown flashes that suggest he could be a good one if put in the right situations. The Pacers chose develop Lance instead letting him essentially do anything he wanted all season. The chose the wrong head case.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Is Perry Jones even allowed to shoot the ball? He was a guy with a ton of upside coming out of college, but he's gotten no burn in OKC and when he does they seem to ask him to be a Collison type player. The world has forgotten him.

 

This is a dumb question maybe. Is he still on that team? I had totally forgotten about him.

[bobbi3stix]

Moving forward, I eagerly await these finals and hope they're a good one. My main concern is the officiating, I hope that there is nothing left to be debated or anything "suspect" that impacts the games.

 

I think if the Heat are going to win it (and I feel they will) it will be in 5 or games. San Antonio seemed a bit arrogant in quickly responding with "we'll take care of them this time" and the biggest failure with most teams is their underestimating the Heat.

It only worked because Hibbert wasn't dominant offensively like he was last year.

 

I see the reverse, he was made ineffective because of Miami's approach.

[mcsluggo]

Derek Fisher could be 55 and unable to move his legs and that jumper will still be beautiful.

 

there is no sentence in the English language that contains both the words "Derek Fisher" and "beautiful"

this is fact.  look it up in emily post.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It only worked because Hibbert wasn't dominant offensively like he was last year. The Pacers last season weren't a great offensive team either but Hibbert averaged 20+ and shot over 50%. I think Vogel made a huge mistake not getting Hibbert the ball early and often throughout the regular season assuming he would just turn into Shaq again when they played the Heat. He got a taste of the limelight and even in college they know that if you stop feeding the bigs, they stop working. The ones that want the ball anyway. All season Hibbert made mention of "the gameplan" and he was clearly talking about having very few plays run for him or getting the ball too far from the basket.

 

Maybe. This is like the great debate that's been going on in Houston all year - and that Shaq has exacerbated on tv. Do you feed Howard in the post? Or do you run the offense that the team is built to run. Houston became obsessed with feeding Dwight against Portland and it turned their Indy 500 offense into 4 guys standing around.

 

Indy is a different situation because Dwight is much better in the post than Hibbert, and Indy doesn't really have an offensive philsophy. Hibbert dominated them last year in the playoffs, but it seemed like he was getting insanely deep position and a ton of offensive rebounds. This year, when they tried to go to him, it seemed like he was getting the ball too far out, which made his bad hands a problem.

 

I think Miami adjusted by keeping five guys inside the three point arc instead of blitzing the pick and rolls like they used to. This meant that Hibbert had to deal with bodies around him - instead of just overpowering Bosh or Anderson one on one like last year.

 

Maybe Indy needs to spend a year really just going all out to make Hibbert a great post player. If they only win 47 games as a result, who cares? They played this entire season for a Game 7 that never came close to happening.

 

I just don't think Hibbert will ever be that good a post scorer. And I know he will never be a great passer out of the post. Which will make Paul George miserable.

 

It's one thing for Kobe to feed Shaq knowing that if he cuts, he's getting the ball back. Paul George might as well buy a courtside ticket when the Pacers play inside out.

there is no sentence in the English language that contains both the words "Derek Fisher" and "beautiful"

this is fact.  look it up in emily post.

 

I'm trying to figure out who looks at Derek Fisher's lollipop, howitzer shot jumper and thinks it's "beautiful." That thing either swishes...or hits the basket support. There is no in between with him. I've never seen a shot so reliant on the release point.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

there is no sentence in the English language that contains both the words "Derek Fisher" and "beautiful"

this is fact. look it up in emily post.

Lmao hey now that jumper is still lovely.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Ok.

 

Time-killing game.

 

1. Who signs Lance?

2. What does the contract look like?

3. What horrifying incident makes the team regret the contract?

4. What is the time frame of said incident?

 

Go.

1. Charlotte

2. 4 years. $45 million.

3. He sneaks a Herring Gull into a game against the Mavs. Releases it in Monta Ellis' face in the first quarter.

4. Six months.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[CrypticVillain]

Ok.

 

Time-killing game.

 

1. Who signs Lance?

2. What does the contract look like?

3. What horrifying incident makes the team regret the contract?

4. What is the time frame of said incident?

 

Go.

 

1.Mavericks

2.3 Years/36 Million

3.He gets ejected for swinging at a player.

4.Whenever the Mavericks play Indy for the first time.