Renegade7 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: If Curry continues on this path, he will pass Magic. People are just going to have to accept that. I'm not birther when it comes to basketball, if ya'll collectively make more sense then I do, I'll hear ya'll out. I do not like the idea of players that should be SG put in the greatest PG discussion. Curry is averaging a little over 5 assists per game in these playoffs, Magic rarely averaged less then 12 apg in the playoffs. That should matter when it comes to best point guard and nothing to do with best shooter. Edited June 5, 2018 by Renegade7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) @BenningRoadSkin you're tripping. I don't think it's anything Curry could do *to pass Magic. Edited June 5, 2018 by CrypticVillain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 "we have no timeouts?" The end of game one just keeps getting worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) I think Curry's assist numbers could be higher, were he required to be that guy, but why would you be when your offensive game is on his level? That being said, I'd still take Magic overall, by a good amount. Versatility off the scales both ways. Edited June 5, 2018 by Mr. Sinister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Curry's already at least equal to Magic. If you dropped Magic in today's NBA, Curry is clearly the better player. Magic's inability to shoot makes him a weakness in today's NBA. (And I was a huge Magic fan growing up and the last person that I know that admitted that MJ had passed by Magic.) Edited June 5, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Curry has like three Finals MVPs and rings to go before he passes Magic IMO. Winning another MVP wouldn't hurt either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Magic would still be a nightmare matchup. Is he a 6'9" guard? Do you play him at center in a small ball lineup? Does he only occasionally control the ball like KD? Edited June 5, 2018 by The Evil Genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Magic would still be a nightmare matchup. Is he a 6'9" guard? Do you play him at center in a small ball lineup? Does he only occasionally control the ball like KD? As soon as you take the ball out of his hands, you make Magic a much less effective players. He'd be a lot like Simmons. I'm not saying he'd be a bad player, but he wouldn't be as good as Curry. And no where near what KD is in terms of he would not be a reliable off ball shooter/floor spacer the way that KD is. (He's be somewhere between Simmons and Lebron and KD. He's probably a better shooter and finisher than Simmons, but he can't shoot or finish like Lebron and KD. But that makes Curry better than him.) Edited June 5, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I understand the game today caters to 3pt shooting being more important then it used to be, but I don't like the idea of saying Curry's shooting ability makes up for everything Magic is better then him at. Could Curry get more assists if asked to, maybe, but he's not 6'9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I understand the game today caters to 3pt shooting being more important then it used to be, but I don't like the idea of saying Curry's shooting ability makes up for everything Magic is better then him at. Could Curry get more assists if asked to, maybe, but he's not 6'9. What is Magic better than him at? Magic wasn't a particularly good defender. He wasn't a particularly good finisher, and Curry actually finishes around the rim at very high percentage without getting off the ground much. Magic was a great ball handler, but so is Curry. Magic was taller and so better as a pure post player, and I think had better court vision. That's not that much. And the key thing about Curry (and shooting in general) is that he creates space for everybody else. Magic/Simmons helps his teammates score with his ability to pass and see the court, but the also hurt because of their inability to space the floor. Curry (while being a good passer and having good court vision) doesn't have the same ability to make passes, but makes plays for his teammates by simply being on the floor and pulling the defense away from them Edited June 5, 2018 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, PeterMP said: What is Magic better than him at? Magic wasn't a particularly good defender. He wasn't a particularly good finisher, and Curry actually finishes around the rim at very high percentage without getting off the ground much. Magic was a great ball handler, but so is Curry. Magic was taller, and I think had better court vision. That's not that much. And the key thing about Curry (and shooting in general) is that he creates space for everybody else. Magic/Simmons helps his teammates score with his ability to pass and see the court, but the also hurt because of their inability to space the floor. Curry (while being a good passer and having good court vision) doesn't have the same ability to make passes, but makes plays for his teammates by pulling the defense away from them. I can understand the points that are trying to be made for and against who's the better player, you are missing my point in regards to the better PG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Magic is a five time champion and one of the very greatest players in the history of the sport. Curry has a ways to go before we can say the same about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Damn, Magic getting killed in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I can understand the points that are trying to be made for and against who's the better player, you are missing my point in regards to the better PG. The function of the PG is to get the floor up the court and initiate the offense. If the other team offers pressure to make the right play (either to break the pressure off the dribble or find the open person and make the pass) so that they pay for the pressure. There isn't an era of basketball where Curry can't do that at a high level, and he can do it well at slower pace or in an up tempo attack. Some mind set where the PG has to the person that gets the assist doesn't make sense and actually hurts the team (see the Wizards thread and the context of Wall doesn't understand ball movement and being the person that makes the pass to make the pass.) 5 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: Damn, Magic getting killed in here I was a big Magic fan growing up, but as I've gotten older (and basketball has under gone more change), I've started to understand that Magic had a very specific skill set that played very well in the era he played in, but not so much in any other era/variants of the rules. Magic was great when he played, but you put him in any other era of basketball, and he's not nearly as good. Prior to 2000, there's no way I would have ever admitted, but today, I think Bird was clearly the better player. Bird's versatility makes him a great player in any era. KD, Lebron, and Curry are all great players if you drop them in 1982. Magic is not a great player if you drop in today's NBA (and Bird is clearly a much better player than Magic in today's NBA, and it isn't even close). (Magic's very good, but no great.) Edited June 5, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 The Magic/Bron comparisons are apt. Magic was a GREAT player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, PeterMP said: The function of the PG is to get the floor up the court and initiate the offense. If the other team offers pressure to make the right play (either to break the pressure off the dribble or find the open person and make the pass) so that they pay for the pressure. There isn't an era of basketball where Curry can't do that at a high level, and he can do it well at slower pace or in an up tempo attack. Some mind set where the PG has to the person that gets the assist doesn't make sense and actually hurts the team (see the Wizards thread and the context of Wall doesn't understand ball movement and being the person that makes the pass to make the pass.) I own three houses in the Wizards thread, what are you talking about saying Wall has to get all the assist numbers? We all agree in there that even if he gets a solid chunk, we do best when we get over 30+ assists per game regardless, everybody in there knows that, everybody in there wants that. Don't talk about what we don't understand when every time you come in there with a disclaimer about how you don't watch the team as much as we do. Wall doesn't just initiate the offense, he can make those sportscenter passes even when the play breaks down, he's the best passer on the team no matter the situation. Can Curry initiate the offense and make those passes better then Magic? Saying he can if he wanted to is moving the goal post, he doesn't. Edited June 5, 2018 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 The greatest player of this era is a Magic Johnson descendant. Magic would be a great player in this era and pretty much any era except maybe the ISO ball era of the late 90's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Lebron is clearly better than Magic. He's a better shooter, finisher, and when he needs/wants to be a better defender (especially in his prime he's a much much better defender than Magic was in his prime). It isn't even close. Edited June 5, 2018 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I never understand attempting to take a player from any era and put him in a different era and think they would be the exact same player. Magic was a great player and someone that didn't grow up with a three point line. I also think it's silly to claim Curry is the best shooting guard or best shooter ever. The game is different now. He's great shooter and maybe the best in this era. Not sure how he would have done in the 80's or 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I'm not birther when it comes to basketball, if ya'll collectively make more sense then I do, I'll hear ya'll out. I do not like the idea of players that should be SG put in the greatest PG discussion. Curry is averaging a little over 5 assists per game in these playoffs, Magic rarely averaged less then 12 apg in the playoffs. That should matter when it comes to best point guard and nothing to do with best shooter. 1 hour ago, CrypticVillain said: @BenningRoadSkin you're tripping. I don't think it's anything Curry could do pass Magic. Why should Curry be a Shooting Guard again? He is a brilliant play maker. His movement creates space for his teammates and he is an excellent passer. Nothing about Curry's game screams 2guard, as opposed to someone like Kyrie Irving. And the pace Curry is on, he is leading the greatest offense of all time. And it has been on that level since 2014-15. Curry doesn't need the ball in his hand to make an impact which is different than Magic. I genuinely don't care about assists. Curry is revolutionizing what is a point guard. This dribble-dribble stuff is gonna go away in 10 years because you do not need the ball to create. Saying that, if Curry played in an offense where he had to pound the ball for 20 seconds to find guys, he would thrive there too. Curry has a very good chance to pass Magic, and I think people have to accept that if the Warriors win a few more titles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: I never understand attempting to take a player from any era and put him in a different era and think they would be the exact same player. Magic was a great player and someone that didn't grow up with a three point line. I also think it's silly to claim Curry is the best shooting guard or best shooter ever. The game is different now. He's great shooter and maybe the best in this era. Not sure how he would have done in the 80's or 90's. It is really the only way to compare players across eras. I can't compare Magic to what he would be if he grew up now with Curry now because I have no idea of what Magic would be. Maybe Magic would be a 40% 3 point shooter, but also maybe time he spend working on his shooting would have taken away from his dribbling ability. Maybe he'd be exactly what he was. Nobody knows. What I can tell you is what would happen if you took the player that Magic was and put him in this era, and the answer is that he'd be very good, but not great. (And I'll point out that Bird grew up at the same time and was great shooter.) Edited June 5, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: I never understand attempting to take a player from any era and put him in a different era and think they would be the exact same player. Magic was a great player and someone that didn't grow up with a three point line. I also think it's silly to claim Curry is the best shooting guard or best shooter ever. The game is different now. He's great shooter and maybe the best in this era. Not sure how he would have done in the 80's or 90's. Nah, Curry is the best shooter ever. Don't be ridiculous. His efficiency blows his peers out the water. Magic didn't grow up with the 3 point shot? Cool. His jumper was broke until '87, and I think they grew up doing that back when he was a kid. Even as it got better, give me the guy that can get the shot off and make it in less than a tenth of a second over the guy with the set shot. (Curry has way better handles than Magic too) 20 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: The greatest player of this era is a Magic Johnson descendant. Magic would be a great player in this era and pretty much any era except maybe the ISO ball era of the late 90's. LeBron is not a Magic Johnson descendant. He is LeBron James. Edited June 5, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Nah, Curry is the best shooter ever. Don't be ridiculous. His efficiency blows his peers out the water. Magic didn't grow up with the 3 point shot? Cool. His jumper was broke until '87, and I think they grew up doing that back when he was a kid. Even as it got better, give me the guy that can get the shot off and make it in less than a tenth of a second over the guy who with the Draymond Green motion. It's ridiculous to claim a guy in an era without any hand checking or hard fouls can be compared to shooters that had to play in those eras. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Benning and Peter are making some damn good arguments. I just refuse to believe it lol Magic is so much more than numbers and whatnot. I just don't think I can logically pick Curry over him if I'm starting a team... I just can't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Magic was not a great shooter, but at his worst, he was better than Simmons in that department. He had a million ways to score in the paint aside from layups. And he had a decent mid-range game. What he didn't have was a long-range game, but he didn't really need it. Here's the one thing about Magic that everyone forgets. He was a good free throw shooter. But after the '88 season, he decided he wanted to be the best free throw shooter in the league. So, he spent all off season working and freaking did it. He went from 85 percent to 91 percent in one off-season just to prove that he could do it. So, if he decided he wanted to be the best three point shooter in the league, he probably could have come close to that goal as well. By the end of his career, he had gone from like 10 percent to 30 percent. Magic used to annoy the hell out of me, because he was one of those players that whatever his team needed in the moment, he always did and always did shockingly well. I mean, how many freaking guard develop a running hook shot just in case they need to use it at some point in the closing seconds of an NBA Finals game. I'm not sure he ever attempted that shot again. But it was freaking perfect and gorgeous. Magic was an Asshole. The other thing to consider about Magic is that he probably wouldn't be having orgies in the shower room after every game if he played today. He would probably be asleep by 11:30 in a hyperbaric chamber. I do a fantasticly funny Magic impression by the way. It's based on one of his NBA videos and his "I have HIV but I got it from a woman" Arsenio interview. Edited June 5, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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