skinsfan1523 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 There go all those loyal Pacers fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 That had to hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I thought the Heat seemed laxed and carefree leading up to this game. They seemed to think they always bounced back and never feel into a 0-2 hole. They certainly made the crunch time plays when they had to and went to that extra gear. Great game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 MIAs D went to a different planet with like 7-8 min left. Twas the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 this man gets it. He gets it completely. But your claiming that the NBA draft is illegal, when it isn't. They have options other than to be employed by the NBA. They can stay in college and get a degree and fail to get a job in said field out of college and actually work for a living like the majority of college graduates do. Or they can make themselves eligible for the NBA draft, fully knowing they are most likely going to a ****ty team/city but will instantly make millions of dollars. There is absolutely nothing illegal about it what so ever. Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 professional sports labor laws itself is inherently illegal. Salary caps would not fly any other workforce. Its illegal. and there is nothing silly about it. If someone gets drafted into a terrible environment and cannot turn it around, that player is seen as a bust. Not the organization being a mess, that player by himself. There is nothing fair about that. 1) Explain how it's illegal. I still don't see it 2) Who cares if a player is viewed as a failure or bust. It happens at every company in the country every day, employees are fired and viewed as failures at their job when many cases it's because they didn't receive the training or support from the company to be successful. Why does everything have to be fair and why be so concerned about the poor players who know all of this going in? They make these life decisions knowing the work structure of the company they decided to seek employment with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Interesting idea.... Personally, I'd love to see a "losers" tournament. This would be where the 13 worst teams in the league play in a tourney to decide draft order. You could have a play-in game between the two worst teams in the league and award byes for a few others to get the tourney down to an eventual 8. After that, it's on. LOL. I think I talked about that with somebody on here before. But I think a losers tournament would be nice. Would the union roll with that though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 professional sports labor laws itself is inherently illegal. Salary caps would not fly any other workforce. Its illegal.and there is nothing silly about it. If someone gets drafted into a terrible environment and cannot turn it around, that player is seen as a bust. Not the organization being a mess, that player by himself. There is nothing fair about that. exactly, apply this to your life and you are screaming at the roof top.Eliminating the draft would end tanking, make the process fair, and would give everyone a chance to sign a player if they can afford it. And the player can goto the situation that is best for his career.this man gets it. He gets it completely. The player is seen as a bust because he sucks, not because of his work environment. He was paid millions of dollars to do a job and he couldn't do it, therefore he gets fired. The same way you would if you sucked at your job. Only difference is you aren't being paid millions of dollars to suck at your job like Kwame Brown was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Is someone actually arguing that NBA players are victims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Is someone actually arguing that NBA players are victims?Apparently, it's criminal if an 18-22 year old aspiring NBA player doesn't get to pick the team he plays for and his salary out of college. He is entitled to sign with a playoff/championship contender if he so desires. Anything less is illegal. Also, those that do decide to play for a less successful team and fail to make it a winner are unfairly called busts and failures. While not illegal, it's unfair and I think it hurts their feelings too? I believe that's where we are at now. Edited May 21, 2014 by Momma There Goes That Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Seems as if teams would prefer not to have a draft at all and go recruit/sign whomever they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbi3stix Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Lebron with a ridiculous flop lol LeFlop strikes again. Lance gets a Grown Ass Man sticker . Everyone flops, get over it. The Stevenson flop was hilarious, convenient that you overlook that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 It's really hard not to think the draft is rigged when Cleveland is "awarded" the #1 overall pick for the 3rd time in 4 years. I'll post the video later, but I think Bill Simmons spoke for a lot of people when he shared his thoughts on the whole thing last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 But your claiming that the NBA draft is illegal, when it isn't. They have options other than to be employed by the NBA. They can stay in college and get a degree and fail to get a job in said field out of college and actually work for a living like the majority of college graduates do. Or they can make themselves eligible for the NBA draft, fully knowing they are most likely going to a ****ty team/city but will instantly make millions of dollars. There is absolutely nothing illegal about it what so ever. Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. If you cannot choose the destination for which you want to be employed, then it is illegal. I asked you this before, apply it to your life and keep it on the salary of the average American and everyone in this thread would be up in arms. The draft process is very illegal, but is accepted in CBAs. 2) Who cares if a player is viewed as a failure or bust. It happens at every company in the country every day, employees are fired and viewed as failures at their job when many cases it's because they didn't receive the training or support from the company to be successful. Why does everything have to be fair and why be so concerned about the poor players who know all of this going in? They make these life decisions knowing the work structure of the company they decided to seek employment with. the players do because it effects there career prospects. Some players legit suck but some are just in bad circumstances. A player gets taken in the top 5, goes to a dysfunctional franchise. Looks bad because hte franchise is dysfunctional and his value drops. He has to sign deals below his talent level. He goes to the right situation and flourishes, but unfortunately he is now 28-29. This is now the last chance at a big contract. Then there is other stuff like endorsements, how they are perceived, etc. At least with our jobs, we can say we chose to go into that work environment. These guys do not have that same option. The player is seen as a bust because he sucks, not because of his work environment. He was paid millions of dollars to do a job and he couldn't do it, therefore he gets fired. The same way you would if you sucked at your job. Only difference is you aren't being paid millions of dollars to suck at your job like Kwame Brown was.rubbish. A lot of us think Otto Porter isnt good enough to be a Wizard but forget that he was drafted to a team that has two long term vets at his position. One was in a contract year, and the other just signed a 4 year deal. Otto doesnt play because of an injury and because of those vets, and a lot of us think he sucks. Its also true nationally as well. I guess that is Otto's fault that he was drafted here. Even Kwame, he may have never lived up to #1 pick billing but it didnt help that Michael Jordan was calling him homosexual slurs and insulting his manhood at 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Would love to see the Hornets package their picks and players to bring Love to Charlotte to reunite with Jefferson. Thing is, I have my doubts that he would want to sign a long term deal. And Joe: there is nothing "illegal" about getting drafted to a team in a city you don't want to play in. If a guy doesn't want to play in Milwaukee, he can go get a regular job like everyone else. Stop being silly. Edited May 21, 2014 by Bubble Screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Everyone flops, get over it. The Stevenson flop was hilarious, convenient that you overlook that. I noted one of Stephensons ridiculous flops as well. Each player had two hilariously bad flops and both should be fined. More for the embarrassment of being called out than anything else. It's not acceptable for them to be so egregious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 One thing you are missing here Joe. Orlando is not a big sports market. Shaq, Penny, and others made plenty of endorsement money, and were also considered stars. LeBron went to Cleveland...he had a huge economic boom to the city, but also was able to get his part of the pie. A star is a star regardless of his team. You have to play to get that respect and buzz going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 One thing you are missing here Joe. Orlando is not a big sports market. Shaq, Penny, and others made plenty of endorsement money, and were also considered stars. LeBron went to Cleveland...he had a huge economic boom to the city, but also was able to get his part of the pie. A star is a star regardless of his team. You have to play to get that respect and buzz going. not everyone is Lebron, Penny, and Shaq. Some players actually need to be developed to get them right. That is what a lot of you all are missing. Chauncy Billups was a damn journeyman until he caught on with the Pistons and became a multiple NBA all star, 3-time ALL NBA player, and won a finals MVP. That could have been him years earlier if he did not get drafted by Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I found the posts when we were talking about having a playoff for the number one pick. But the focus wasn't necssairly on the lottery being rigged, it had more to do with teams tanking... I think it is interesting looking back at the discussion now that we know how the lottery went down last night. Props to RonArtest15 for coming up with the idea... Hang Up and Listen had a live podcast this week with Bob Costas that was really good. (Costas was downright testy at times. I think he forgot that the conversation was being recorded for broadcast). During the Q&A at the end, one of the questions was "What would you like Adam Silver's goals to be?" Josh Levin's answer was interesting. He said that the league has somehow convinced its fans into believing that being really really terrible for a few years is a good thing. And that the league needs to somehow find a way to reward being competitive. I agree that it's not good that seven or eight teams are trying to lose games this year. But - at the same time - it's clearly the right thing to do. The NBA is the only team sport where one player can completely turn around a team's fortunes. You need to do everything you can to get that player - including losing. Still, that sucks for fans who are expected to pay for tickets and watch the tank job. Is there anything that can be done to make tanking not a reasonable team building strategy? Should the draft lottery go back to one card per team? I'm honestly stumped by how to fix this. make it a true lottery, every team that misses the playoffs has a chance at #1 pick Have a "losers" tournament for lottery teams. Tournament outcome determines draft order. Wow....that's an intriguing idea. They were talking about Simmons' "Entertaining as Hell" tournament, which I think is stupid. I don't want to spend a week watching bad teams play for the right to get annihilated by Miami in Round 1. But you could run your idea simultaneously with the playoffs. You could give the two worst teams a first round bye so there is some slight advantage to being terrible. 6 first round series, 4 second round series, 2 semis, and a finals. Make everything 2 out of 3. You could also play with the seeds to give the bad teams and advantage instead of 1 plays 12, make it 1 plays 2 and 3 plays 4 and so forth. Give the "good" bad teams a tougher path. That's a ton of extra revenue as well. Sell these games to some lesser network like TruTV. Some teams would get something like 6 or 7 more home games. And that would reward teams who actually got better during the year. The Wizards last season probably could have won that losers tournament considering how well they were playing at the end of the season. I've now talked myself into this completely. How do we get this to someone? Here's how this would have played out last year. Byes: Magic, Bobcats First Round Utah at Dallas Toronto at Philly Portland at Minnesota Washington at Detroit Sacramento at New Orleans Phoenix at Cleveland Second Round Cleveland at Magic Bobcats at Sacramento Washington at Portland Toronto at Dallas Semis Cleveland at Bobcats Washington at Toronto Finals Wizards at Cleveland Think about this for this year? Wall vs. Irving for the right to get their choice of Wiggns or Jabari as a running mate. I would watch the hell out of that series. Imagine being able to cheer for your team to win a game late in the season. If that is going to happen, it needs to be a 1 and done scenario. Why? One and Done is so random. 2 out 3 is less so, and who objects to more games at this point? It would still be over before the end of the real second round. You can really rig this to give the losingest teams an advantage while still giving the good bad teams a chance to really improve. The problem in the league right now is you either need to be really good or really bad. If you get caught in Milwaukee Bucks Land where you are the 9th best team in a conference year in and year out, you are kind of screwed. Okay, but two of three is the max. And when will these games be shown? Would they be pitted against playoff games? Maybe have them play during the day? I dunno. It's not like playoff games aren't already going on at the same time in the early rounds. I doubt the problem is "Too Much Content." It would be more money for the NBA as well. If possible, they could play the games in smaller venues. In thinking about a Cleveland/Washington matchup, the "home" games could be played in Baltimore. For Cleveland, they could play at OSU. I'd almost guarantee it would be a sellout...college kids would fill that place up to see Kyrie Irving. We got something here, fellas...LOL So we're basically creating the NIT for the NBA lol playing at OSU would give OSU money. Exactly. Why would the NBA do that? Welp...so much for that idea. But my point remains...find a smaller venue. That would be cool, but the owners are not going to give up bonus home games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 But your claiming that the NBA draft is illegal, when it isn't. They have options other than to be employed by the NBA. They can stay in college and get a degree and fail to get a job in said field out of college and actually work for a living like the majority of college graduates do. Or they can make themselves eligible for the NBA draft, fully knowing they are most likely going to a ****ty team/city but will instantly make millions of dollars. There is absolutely nothing illegal about it what so ever. Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. I wouldn't say that entry drafts are illegal. I would say that they are of questionable legality. They are a restraint of trade by a monopoly. That's obvious. And, under nearly every other circumstance in the economy, that would be illegal. However, sports leagues tend to operate outside of the normal economy. MLB has a an explicit anti-trust exemption. The NFL and NBA have implied anti-trust exemptions. Moreover, they are utilizing the draft with the full consent of their unions. If the unions ever explicitly challenged the drafts, they could probably end them, though perhaps not in baseball. Everyone agrees, though, that the drafts are good for the sports. By the way, let's not pretend that the draft is the only of doing this. EPL does not have a draft. It's first-signed, first-served. And MLB's international signings are largely a free-for-all. So, other models can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 not everyone is Lebron, Penny, and Shaq. Some players actually need to be developed to get them right. That is what a lot of you all are missing. Chauncy Billups was a damn journeyman until he caught on with the Pistons and became a multiple NBA all star, 3-time ALL NBA player, and won a finals MVP. That could have been him years earlier if he did not get drafted by Boston. Wait...Boston is considered an elite team. My point was that the market does not make the player. The player makes the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't get either of the current conversations going on in this thread. Neither makes a lick of sense to me. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Is someone actually arguing that NBA players are victims? No, they aren't victims. But no one really thinks of sports leagues in terms of Labor Law, which is something I find interesting. Fun Fact: Major League Baseball did not have an amateur draft until 1965. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Wait...Boston is considered an elite team. My point was that the market does not make the player. The player makes the player. since when werent the Boston Celtics an elite franchise? What are you talking about? I did not say anything about the market, you did. My point was about a dysfunctional franchise wrecking a career before it starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I agree that some players should be developed further. The Pistons clearly saw the potential fit for him. He made it on his own especially after the injury. They had no idea when he was drafted where he fit. He is a 1 and played as a 2. It took the Pistons to realize that was where he fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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