SOW| Native Americans Speaking Out In Support of Redskins Name

[KDawg]

imo, she is as extreme as it gets. doesnt even want 'warriors' as the new name. says there are irish offended by notre dame, and that if just one person is offended by the name, it should be changed..

I'm on board.

Names I'm offended by:

Bills: Some say this is named after Buffalo Bill. However, I think of it like money. I'm not rich. Therefore, I do not approve of the name Bills. It's offensive. Change it.

Dolphins: They can kill a shark! Seriously. Think about that. What violent imagery. Totally offensive. Not okay. Change it.

Jets: Planes can crash. People die. Offensive. Change it.

Patriots: They cheated once. They misrepresent the Patriot name. They give Americans a bad name. Not okay. Change it.

Ravens: They circle around carcasses. That's quite menacing. And to be honest, intimidating. And scary. Bad imagery, therefore... Offensive. Change it.

Bengals: See Roy, Seigfried. They eat people. No way. Offensive. Change it.

Browns: Uhhhh. RACIST. CHANGE IMMEDIATELY!

Steelers: I know a guy that's allergic to steel. Wtf? Change it. Offensive to him!

Texans: I'm offended that Texas keeps attempting to seceed from the union. Therefore, Texan pride offends me. Offensive. Good bye.

Colts: Superman was thrown off of a horse and paralyzed. If Superman can't survive a horse, I can't either. Offensive. See ya!

Jaguars: I am offended by polka dots. And spots of any nature on animals. They look like trouble. Therefore, I am offended. Get rid of it!!

Titans: Titans imply mythological beings and encroach on the beliefs of many religions. This is offensive to some people. Please change it.

Broncos: See: Colts. You guys aren't free from scrutiny due to that. You offend me as well.

Chiefs: Native American phrasing? I know for a fact that some chiefs are not liked. Therefore, this offends someone, somewhere. Get rid of it.

Raiders: Do I even need to go there? I'm offended by this... Raiders?!?! It implies forceful takeover. Scary. Offensive. Peace!

Chargers: I know a guy who was hit by lightning. Please change it. Bad memories.

Cowboys: Most offensive name out there. These guys killed the poor natives! They invited them over for a nice turkey dinner with all the fixins' and talked them up. They befriended them. And then... BOOM! Killed natives out of nowhere!!! Unacceptable name for a team. Definitely can it.

Giants: I prefer the term "People who are tall". Offensive. Good riddance.

Eagles: Birds fly. I can't. I'm jealous. Thus offended. Change.

Redskins: I find the name perfectly acceptable.

Bears: Ever watch Yogi Bear? He steals picnic baskets. Nothing worse than going out for a good picnic and having two bears walk up on your camp and steal your food. I'm offended by this as a result of the fact that nothing gets between me and a peanut butter sandwich. The thought of these two doing these dastardly acts nauseates me. Offensive. Change it.

Lions: First, the name implies male superiority. Why not lioness? Second... hello... THEY KILL PEOPLE! Change it!

Packers: I'm afraid to ask what they pack. Therefore, it's inappropriate in my eyes. Facts be damned. Change it!

Vikings: Nothing inappropriate about a bunch of people who gets together to pillage and rape. That was sarcasm. Rid the world of this horrendous name as I am offended.

Falcons: I am offended by the dirty bird dance. It's just bad. Plus, again, these suckers can fly. I can't. Offensive. Change it.

Panthers: Implies prowling. Which implies burglary. Which implies broken laws. Which is offensive as I follow laws. Get rid of it!!!

Saints: None of these men are Saints. Poor Valentine and Patrick... These guys misrepresent your kind with their scandals and such. This is a no brainer. It can't exist.

Buccaneers: Oh, this goes over well. We have ships being boarded by pirates in foreign waters, with Americans suffering. But let's name a football team after them. This is absurd. Get rid of it.

Cardinals: I'm offended that a team is even named Cardinals. What's intimidating about a cardinal? And by the way, why is their logo so angry. He may need counseling. It sends a poor message to the children. Oh, and the flying thing again. Offended. Change.

Rams: These little ****s can knock someone right over. And god forbid they do it on a crowded street like that one gum commercial shows. Due to that commercial, the name Rams was ruined forever in my eyes. Tainted. I'm offended.

49ers: Gold is a sign of greed. Greed is a sin. Therefore, it's offensive.

Seahawks: Oh, this is great. It's named after the sea, which has all sorts of scary creatures... And it's a hawk, so it eats other things... And it can fly, which is a major issue. It's unacceptable.

Please contact this woman and let her know of my personal issues so she can stand her ground and help me fight to remove these wrongs from our world.

[grego]

amanda blackhorse was her name, btw. shes suing to block the redskins trademark on the name, i believe.

pj, the thing is, youre right. anyone can claim offense at any name and, by her definition, the name has to go. just one person.

ive been saying this all along- how many people have to be offended in order to necessitate a change? i dont know what the answer is, but, imo, its not one, and i dont think its 9%. native americans certainly dont seem to be anywhere close to a majority on the issue- but, how could they? they use the name themselves for their own teams. the 'slur' argument is just very weak and reeks of someone making an issue out of something thats, in fact, not one.

its a small, extreme, vocal percentage playing on peoples guilt, emotion, and ignorance of the facts and most native americans true feelings on the issue.

[Spaceman Spiff]

sports junkies have a woman who is representing a native american organization on right now.

imo, she is as extreme as it gets. doesnt even want 'warriors' as the new name. says there are irish offended by notre dame, and that if just one person is offended by the name, it should be changed.

also compared it to the n word, and said intentions are irrelevant with regards to the name 'redskins', as in, you could say you have honorable intention and call a team the 'n's but it would be offensive.

but then when EB said i wouldnt mind if they were called the honkies, she said the point was moot cuz that would never happen.

thats a bit of a contradiction.

on a side note, it really bothers me when people who are supposed to be in the business of knowing, dont know. this woman just said that the majority of native americans find it offensive and not one of the hosts called her on it. not one person mentioned how the name is used as a mascot by native americans. not one person mentioned walter wetzel and his involvement with the logo that she finds offensive for 'stereotyping' indians.

maddening.

I could feel my blood pressure rising while listening to her this morning, but then I couldn't tell who I was more annoyed with...her, or EB for not knowing **** about **** when it came to sticking up for his side of the debate. He was absolutely awful this morning. He had NOTHING prepared to debate her with. He just whined the whole time.

[Enzo]

Can one of you that is a resident of Washington D.C. please email a copy of that article to Congresswomen Eleanor Norton-Holmes. She is trying to pass legislation that would basically force the Redskins to change their name. I would myself but I can't because I don't live in her district.

[88Comrade2000]

When the name changed is forced upon us in the future; as long as the fans can pick the new name that will be fine with me.

I don't want name change but if you don't think at some point in the future either the government of the NFL forces a name change upon the Skins; you're naive. I figure when the name change will be forced upon the Redskins after a superbowl appearance. President Obama will demand a name change. I can see congress taking away the NFL's anti-trust exemptions and thus forcing the NFL's hand in demanding a change. It's not if there will be a name change but when. When $$$$$$ become at stake whether that's for Dan himself or the NFL; then the name will change,

[rk3025]

The Democrats in house want to outlaw the trademark and change the name.

Hope Tony Pathos our Great Republican can get them to take the Washington name off also and go to Virginia where they are appreciated.

[8181]

So I've been trying to wrap myself around this whole thing, because while I don't consider the Redskins name offensive, I try to get a perspective from all sides.

I think it comes down to the following facts:

1. Native Americans are not a "mythical" or "historical" group like the Vikings or Yankees.

2. Native Americans are a disadvantaged group.

Fighting Irish is definitely racist and it is definitely not a mythical/historical group. But most people would not say that Irish-Americans are disadvantaged.

I'll give an example:

In countries where white people are not the majority and are actually disadvantaged, I've seen two general stereotypes when depicted in the media:

1. The white person is a cowboy.

2. The white person is a soldier.

Most white people were not offended and didn't really care. But there definitely was a vocal group of people who would roll their eyes and say, "Yeah because we're all like that", and would make statements like "This country is racist against whites".

Also, I wonder if this is the whole "invasion" thing. I am pretty sure that if Japan decided to have a sports team called the "Tokyo Zainichi" or "Chiba Nanjin", no matter how respectful, Koreans and Chinese would have a ****storm. What if China had a basketball team called the "Beijing Taiwanese" .

Thoughts?

[pjfootballer]

Our local tribe, the Catawba Indians, put up a huge billboard on I-77 north and south before the NC/SC state line inviting us to their "4th Annual Pow-Wow." I might go. Sounds fun.

[Predicto]

So I've been trying to wrap myself around this whole thing, because while I don't consider the Redskins name offensive, I try to get a perspective from all sides.

I think it comes down to the following facts:

1. Native Americans are not a "mythical" or "historical" group like the Vikings or Yankees.

2. Native Americans are a disadvantaged group.

Fighting Irish is definitely racist and it is definitely not a mythical/historical group. But most people would not say that Irish-Americans are disadvantaged.

I'll give an example:

In countries where white people are not the majority and are actually disadvantaged, I've seen two general stereotypes when depicted in the media:

1. The white person is a cowboy.

2. The white person is a soldier.

Most white people were not offended and didn't really care. But there definitely was a vocal group of people who would roll their eyes and say, "Yeah because we're all like that", and would make statements like "This country is racist against whites".

Also, I wonder if this is the whole "invasion" thing. I am pretty sure that if Japan decided to have a sports team called the "Tokyo Zainichi" or "Chiba Nanjin", no matter how respectful, Koreans and Chinese would have a ****storm. What if China had a basketball team called the "Beijing Taiwanese" .

Thoughts?

Thoughtful post, but don't expect thoughtful responses. I know I sound like a broken record, but people here are very emotionally invested in this issue, and they don't want a "perspective from all sides." They are fans and they want to defend their team.

[Larry]

Thoughtful post, but don't expect thoughtful responses. I know I sound like a broken record, but people here are very emotionally invested in this issue, and they don't want a "perspective from all sides." They are fans and they want to defend their team.

Yeah, everybody in here doesn't want facts or logic. They just want to push an emotional agenda without any reasoning behind it.

Except you. And your side. They point at actual facts. Like you just did.

[Predicto]

Yeah, everybody in here doesn't want facts or logic. They just want to push an emotional agenda without any reasoning behind it.

Except you. And your side. They point at actual facts. Like you just did.

Fair enough. I know my :pooh: stinks too.

But try and tell me that his post (that he clearly put a lot of effort into) is going to get a thoughtful measured response, rather than a lot of "well I'm offended by the Buffalo Bills name so there" and "why don't they care about REAL issues that affect Native Americans blah blah blah."

We've all dug in our heels (me as much as you).

[Larry]

Fair enough. I know my :pooh: stinks too.

But try and tell me that his post (that he clearly put a lot of effort into) is going to get a thoughtful measured response, rather than a lot of "well I'm offended by the Buffalo Bills name so there" and "why don't they care about REAL issues that affect Native Americans blah blah blah."

We've all dug in our heels (me as much as you).

Actually, I do think that one of his points has some validity. Specifically, that Natives are not only an ethnic group, but one which is "kept down", if you will, in our society.

I will certainly admit that I have used similar reasoning to assert that the laws forbidding gay marriage are

not

simply an attempt to "defend marriage" or "well, it treats everybody equally. They can marry anybody they want, as long as it's the gender I want them to marry".

The fact that gays have been (and still are) the subject of ongoing discrimination does make the passage of laws designed only to apply to them subject to a higher scrutiny, so to speak.

And I certainly agree that, shall we say, the membership of this board should be aware that our opinions of the Redskins just might deviate in some way from that of a typical random sample.

[colkilla]

change the name to "warriors", replace the indian logo on the helmet with a W with the feathers, or the feather helmet design i have seen floating around the net, or just change the uniforms to the 70th anniversary ones (florida state). sell more jerseys, look a little more modern. the criticism goes away...

[Predicto]

change the name to "warriors", replace the indian logo on the helmet with a W with the feathers, or the feather helmet design i have seen floating around the net, or just change the uniforms to the 70th anniversary ones (florida state). sell more jerseys, look a little more modern. the criticism goes away...

I suspect you don't even have to change anything but the single word "Redskin."

Maybe Snyder could just pick one historically significant Native American tribe and ask their tribal government if we can use their name, with their permission. As I recall, the Cheyenne "Dog Soldiers" were particularly tough, as were the fighters of the Comanche, Apache, and Mohawk tribes. :whoknows:

[Larry]

I suspect you don't even have to change anything but the single word "Redskin."

Maybe Snyder could just pick one historically significant Native American tribe and ask their tribal government if we can use their name, with their permission. As I recall, the Cheyenne "Dog Soldiers" were particularly tough, as were the fighters of the Comanche, Apache, and Mohawk tribes. :whoknows:

Actually, I learned (from watching Criminal Minds) that "Apache" is not what that tribe actually uses to refer to themselves. Supposedly, "Apache" is a Pueblo word, which means "enemy". Supposedly, the Apache refer to themselves as the Dineah (spelling?), which translates as "the People".

[/useless trivia]

On a more businesslike vein: I can't see the team spending a whole bunch of money changing the team's name to something where the team doesn't own the trademark.

[AsburySkinsFan]

change the name to "warriors", replace the indian logo on the helmet with a W with the feathers, or the feather helmet design i have seen floating around the net, or just change the uniforms to the 70th anniversary ones (florida state). sell more jerseys, look a little more modern. the criticism goes away...

Criticism built on a fallacious foundation is not legitimate criticism therefore it should not be treated as such.

[Predicto]

Actually, I learned (from watching Criminal Minds) that "Apache" is not what that tribe actually uses to refer to themselves. Supposedly, "Apache" is a Pueblo word, which means "enemy". Supposedly, the Apache refer to themselves as the Dineah (spelling?), which translates as "the People".

[/useless trivia]

I like trivia like that. Thanks.

On a more businesslike vein: I can't see the team spending a whole bunch of money changing the team's name to something where the team doesn't own the trademark.

True. Maybe the trademark (for NFL marketing purposes) could be part of the deal with a specific tribe. I bet the Florida State Seminoles have some trademark interest in the team name.

[Forehead]

On a more businesslike vein: I can't see the team spending a whole bunch of money changing the team's name to something where the team doesn't own the trademark.

I believe Dan Snyder owns the trademark "Washington Warriors." Read that somewhere. He has a contingency plan in place if this is true.

[Hubbs]

With that kind of credibility in the bank, how could a free press overlook all those relevant factors supporting our claim?

Credibility is unlikely to be gained around here until we have a national leader stand up to Harjo on our behalf. Until then, media will continue to crush us.

Your third sentence is the answer to your first sentence. Who wants to volunteer for the position of Guy Who Will Be Instantly Painted As Horribly Racist? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Where is our one person? Why don't we have a leader on our side to challenge the other 'one person' the media seems to love in Harjo?

Again....

Where are the offended parties? Why aren't people filing law suits against those teams, and why hasn't the national media figured out the wrong behind those names and mascots? Why do they keep picking on us?

Because the NFL is king.

I believe Dan Snyder owns the trademark "Washington Warriors." Read that somewhere. He has a contingency plan in place if this is true.

Yep, he does.

[RFKFedEx]

Who wants to volunteer for the position of Guy Who Will Be Instantly Painted As Horribly Racist?

Why would a free press paint our leader as such if he had widespread public support?

Wouldn't somebody from the right or left media come to his defense?

[Hubbs]

Why would a free press paint our leader as such if he had widespread public support?

Wouldn't somebody from the right or left media come to his defense?

You're kidding, right? Widespread public support? By that, do you mean "support from a bunch of diehard Redskins fans and literally nobody else in the country"? Because I'll grant you that this person would have that extremely specific type of support. But beyond that, I'm not sure you understand how people who aren't Skins fans perceive this whole dispute. It's not pretty.

[Larry]

You're kidding, right? Widespread public support? By that, do you mean "support from a bunch of diehard Redskins fans and literally nobody else in the country"? Because I'll grant you that this person would have that extremely specific type of support. But beyond that, I'm not sure you understand how people who aren't Skins fans perceive this whole dispute. It's not pretty.

Funny.

An extensive, public, public opinion poll says that 90% of Native Americans, when asked the question "is the name Washington Redskins offensive?", answered "No".

An Internet poster, pulling opinions out of his ***, announces that the entire universe, except for "a bunch of diehard Redskins fans and literally nobody else" agrees with him.

Hmmm. Which to believe? Which to believe?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Funny.

An extensive, public, public opinion poll says that 90% of Native Americans, when asked the question "is the name Washington Redskins offensive?", answered "No".

An Internet poster, pulling opinions out of his ***, announces that the entire universe, except for "a bunch of diehard Redskins fans and literally nobody else" agrees with him.

Hmmm. Which to believe? Which to believe?

I don't want the name changed at all, but I gotta side on Hubbs with this one. I don't think there's much support outside of the fanbase to keep this name.

If you try talking to people who aren't Skins fans or aren't football fans....he's right, it's not pretty.

[RFKFedEx]

I'm not sure you understand how people who aren't Skins fans perceive this whole dispute. It's not pretty.

Welcome to the name debate Hubbs. I'm not a popular man in these threads.

[Larry]

I don't want the name changed at all, but I gotta side on Hubbs with this one. I don't think there's much support outside of the fanbase to keep this name.

If you try talking to people who aren't Skins fans or aren't football fans....he's right, it's not pretty.

The university of Pennsylvania spent over a year talking to hundreds of natives, in every one of the lower 48 states. They don't have mechanisms set up to survey Alaska and Hawaii. Their results were pretty much constant across every state. Their results did change with level of education, but only by a few percent.

And, frankly, their results don't SOUND like a drunk Internet poster who's trying to inflate his own opinion by claiming that not only does the universe agree with him, but it does so unanimously.

Now, yep, it's certainly possible that opinions have changed. The survey was done 10 years ago. (I don't think it's possible that the percentage offended has gone from "8%" to "every single person except diehard Redskin fans". But it's certainly conceivable that its doubled, say.).

And I'll believe it, when somebody runs ANOTHER public, open, poll.