skinsince72 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I do not think any person thinks we use the Name Redskins in a derogatory way. I have always seen Redskins as noble and proud symbol. I think our use of the name has helped the Native American cause in the long run, as it has always been used as a positive nameI also can see the other sides argument. Imagine if our team was named the Blackskins or yellowskins, the name would have vanished decades ago. I see this point of view a lot during these discussions. But i've never heard of African Americans, as a group, refer to themselves as "Blackskins". Nor have I heard of any group refer to themselves as "Yellowskins". It is well documented early NA's self-identified as Redskins. It was in their speech and came up quite often. Those who argue for a name change often attempt the clever debate tactic of automatically assuming the name Redskin is comparable to known derogatory terms for African Americans, Jews, Italians, Polish, etc. So, when someone says, "if the team was named (insert any highly insulting name here), would you feel different?", it's not an objective statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Ours was designed by he Blackfoot tribe at the request of Walter Wetzel, the then president of the National Congress of Native Americans. The other looks like it was designed by Walt Disney. I never knew that. thanks! that's good info. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Question for the people telling Harjo and other Native leaders to worry about the 'bigger issues' facing their people... have you ever done anything to improve the quality of life for Native Americans? Define "improve the quality of life for Native Americans"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Define "improve the quality of life for Native Americans"? Read Harjo's Wiki bio, then compare it to what you or any of us have done to improve Native life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Question for the people telling Harjo and other Native leaders to worry about the 'bigger issues' facing their people... have you ever done anything to improve the quality of life for Native Americans? I've never volunteered to help any organization in my life. I suppose if something in my life affected me I would start to volunteer to help. I'm not sure it's my place to do anything to improve the quality of life on reservations as it isn't my place to tell them how to feel about mascots. We have several tribes around the area I live in (Catawba tribe is the largest) and I'm not sure I have heard about anything negative with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Define "improve the quality of life for Native Americans"? By getting them into Agrarian Society, Monotheism, and the concept of currency and property rights ;-] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Read Harjo's Wiki bio, then compare it to what you or any of us have done to improve Native life. i absolutely believe she has done some things to actually attempt to improve native americans way of life. but i still disagree with her position that 'redskins' is a slur, as do most native americans. perhaps if she didnt approach the subject with that extreme view, she would get a more positive response from her detractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Read Harjo's Wiki bio, then compare it to what you or any of us have done to improve Native life. Why is it my responsibility? If that's what Harjo wants to do, hooray for her. I don't have to agree with every one of her ideas. I'm good to my neighbors, i am kind and courteous to those I come in contact with. I teach my kids to do the same. I'm honest, don't steal, or even cheat on my taxes. I conduct myself the way i want others to treat me. What I can do, I try to do.. like volunteering with special needs kids in a tennis camp 3 times every summer. I have enough to worry about in improving my own family's quality of life to take up everyone's cause. Lots of people have awful plights. I don't think any of us are exempt from that, historically speaking. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Why is it my responsibility? If that's what Harjo wants to do, hooray for her. Some people here tend to discount Harjo's credibility on the imagery subject bc there are 'bigger issues' for her to worry about. Harjo's Wiki bio indicates a lifetime of work on those bigger issues, not just a nit pick battle with us and our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Fair enough,,i get that. Hope i didn't sound like a selfish fool. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Fair enough,,i get that.Hope i didn't sound like a selfish fool. ~Bang No worries Bang. Our team is like a family member to us and it feels like Harjo is effing w/ us personally. I get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 To me, the imagery is fine, but the name could be construed as racist (though I don't think it's as awful as some other pejorative racist sayings). If I were in Danny's small shoes, I'd tell Harjo that I'm interested in exploring suggestions for another name that would allow us to keep the imagery and convey a sense of pride and respect for the native culture of our land. Let's get a suggested solution that comes right from Native Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Question for the people telling Harjo and other Native leaders to worry about the 'bigger issues' facing their people... have you ever done anything to improve the quality of life for Native Americans? I have, and its not that hard. Go to local pow wow's that are being run by local and/or regional tribes. Giving your money to the vendors and merchants there support the local tribes as most of them make things like necklaces and jewelry, souvenirs etc. they usually sell food as well like fried bread etc. Little things like that help show support way more than telling people the name Redskin is offensive and should be changed. If the Washington Redskins became the Washington Warriors, not a single Native American in this country would be better off for it, especially financially where right now they're hurting. ---------- Post added March-5th-2013 at 12:45 PM ---------- http://www.virginiapowwow.com/ Theres a website that can help you find out whenever they might be scheduling some local pow wows here in Virginia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Read Harjo's Wiki bio, then compare it to what you or any of us have done to improve Native life. Why compare? I am not an NA, but have studied their way. I found that they not us could be teachers. They are not prone to accepting our way and it is our ways that have hurt them most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Question- How many of y'all have an american indian heritage? Does it bother you? I will be the first to go- I am 1/10 (I think it is 1/10 to 1/4) Cherokee. My great Aunt is a member of the tribe. Her and I have discussed Redskins many of times and this issue has never come about. I chose for the Redskins to be my team as it represents my heritage. Remember I was not raised a REDSKIN fan. I was raised to just hate Dallas until I moved to DC 14 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Question- How many of y'all have an american indian heritage? Does it bother you? I will be the first to go- I am 1/10 (I think it is 1/10 to 1/4) Cherokee. My great Aunt is a member of the tribe. Her and I have discussed Redskins many of times and this issue has never come about. I chose for the Redskins to be my team as it represents my heritage. Remember I was not raised a REDSKIN fan. I was raised to just hate Dallas until I moved to DC 14 years ago. Good call Huly. I am not NA therefore how could I be offended or even understand how they feel, unless I asked. I studied some NA culture and read books about them or inspired by them. I am really fascinated by the culture and admire their sense of community and tribal governing. I have asked the NA's I have interacted with and even emailed tribes directly to find out how they felt about this topic. Much to my surprise they, all of my contact attempts were met with "no thought". They don't put value into this term or argument, it is not their term it is ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Good call Huly. I am not NA therefore how could I be offended or even understand how they feel, unless I asked. I studied some NA culture and read books about them or inspired by them. I am really fascinated by the culture and admire their sense of community and tribal governing. I have asked the NA's I have interacted with and even emailed tribes directly to find out how they felt about this topic. Much to my surprise they, all of my contact attempts were met with "no thought". They don't put value into this term or argument, it is not their term it is ours. I mean honestly someone can find fault with any "word" these days. At times it seems to be over board. Hence why I posed the question who is let's see what member respond and what their thoughts on. For those that do not know Chief Z is also Cherokee hence why he swears him and I are related LOL Obviously he does not see an issue with the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Question- How many of y'all have an american indian heritage? Does it bother you? I will be the first to go- I am 1/10 (I think it is 1/10 to 1/4) Cherokee. My great Aunt is a member of the tribe. Her and I have discussed Redskins many of times and this issue has never come about. I chose for the Redskins to be my team as it represents my heritage. Remember I was not raised a REDSKIN fan. I was raised to just hate Dallas until I moved to DC 14 years ago. One sixteenth Narragansett here. Redskin name and imagery doesn't bother me in the least. Of course, being that far removed I'm not culturally NA at all. But I'm also more than a quarter Irish and I don't find things like Fighting Irish or the (horribly mispronounced) Celtics insulting either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Reliance on a poll like that is dangerous IMO. Any sociologist would tell you that. There's simply no way to sufficiently quantify who feels the offensiveness of the word.. So, your point is that, if you want to know if someone is offended, and you ask him, and he says "no", that's not good enough? ---------- Post added March-6th-2013 at 09:52 AM ---------- One sixteenth Potawatomie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I suspected that this entire sham was cooked up by someone who doesn't even know what its like to be a Native American Indian. Misrepresenting them, is helping them? While riding the hyper sensitivity movement that has a grip on our society. I suspect people are profiting on this "movement" Who are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 My Grandmother was an Apache and I guess that makes me 1/4 Apache. My family is from NM and live just a few miles from the reservation. There are a surprising amount of Redskins fans there. I do not know if they identify themselves with an indian logo or they hate the Cowboys so much that they picked a rival. I have never seen a poll but if I had to guess more than half of the people in NM are Cowboy fans but on the reservation they are hated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I suspected that this entire sham was cooked up by someone who doesn't even know what its like to be a Native American Indian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzan_Shown_Harjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 My Grandmother was an Apache and I guess that makes me 1/4 Apache. My family is from NM and live just a few miles from the reservation. There are a surprising amount of Redskins fans there. I do not know if they identify themselves with an indian logo or they hate the Cowboys so much that they picked a rival. I have never seen a poll but if I had to guess more than half of the people in NM are Cowboy fans but on the reservation they are hated. I saw somebody CLAIM once that The Redskins sell the second most NFL merchandise on reservations. But I think hat was back during the Gibbs 1 era. Might not be true, after so many years of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I still don't understand why people who aren't Native American think their voice matters at all. As far as we know, most Native Americans aren't offended. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugein Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I put the link to this article in the comments section of one of the recent PFT "articles" about the Redskins name. Unsurprisingly they deleted my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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