Sizzla3000 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeluCopter29 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Because Christmas celebrates Santa not Jesus. 50 years ago, maybe not so much. But now, different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Because Presents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Christmas at this point is not about the birth of Christ. (Especially when the date is made up from reports) The sentiment of christmas is what is celebrated, Giving, sharing, family, etc. Presents are a bonus. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I think there are true/false beliefs and statements, but there are a lot of linguistic and philosophical traps and confusions. For example, does a bird know how to fly? I'm just asking if you have varying degrees of certainty, belief is no a pure and simple yes or no. Binary yes/ no, now that is a trick of language. A way to impose to rigid categories on nebulous feelings and thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 What about Stalin/Mao/Hitler/etc?While some of those those were self-professed atheists, they did not do bad things in the name of atheism. Hopefully we can all agree that any form of dogmatism is bad, including dogmatic atheism. Atheism is sometimes slandered as being inherently dogmatic; that is not the case. I'm not sure that we can say that dogmatism is bad (I'll make this point below too). In addition, your statement seems dogmatic and therefore contradictory to me (or at least paradoxical). Isn't it dogmatic to say that dogmatism is always bad? There are many different ways to answer that question. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Justice. General welfare. Well being and flourishing of conscious creatures. Reduction of suffering. Empathy. Your list seems somewhat biased to me. Isn't it just as possible that we could define good based on death, sadness, totalarism, dogmatism, violence, selfishness, and injustice? My view is that morality/goodness of eating animals depends on other options and those animals' ability to experience suffering. Do you really think our concept of suffering has any real meaning? Isn't it really just the result of evolution that we then extend to animals through wishful thinking and anthropomorphism? Why do cows "suffer" more than the bacteria on a counter when I spray it with bleach? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23139412 (Bleach is an oxidizing agent.) Does killing one hundred head of cattle really cause more suffering than using a combine to harvest an acre of corn? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22289134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The screaming carrot defense in regards to eating meat. Pathetic. If you think there is anything humane about factory farming, you've never been to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 why embrace a absolute of no gods/beings?to me not embracing means you are no true atheist.... having the form of atheism and denying the power thereof, so to speak a agnostic in denial :pfft: :evilg: I like the explanation of "agnostic" being a statement of knowledge while "atheist" being a statement of belief... so I see myself as an agnostic atheist. A person who is not convinced that supernatural entities exist (atheist) is not required to embrace a belief in their non-existence. ---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 09:10 AM ---------- Why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Atheists do not accept claims that supernatural entities exist, but they can still embrace custom, tradition, ritual, etc. I see those as very valuable and necessary aspects of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Why is a Hot Water heater called that, if what it does is heats cold water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 I'm just asking if you have varying degrees of certainty, belief is no a pure and simple yes or no. Binary yes/ no, now that is a trick of language. A way to impose to rigid categories on nebulous feelings and thoughts. I think the belief in existence of supernatural entities is indeed a yes/no type of thing, and nebulous feelings and thoughts would not qualify as having a belief. Things get complicated when we get into profession of this belief/disbelief, etc. ---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 09:18 AM ---------- I'm not sure that we can say that dogmatism is bad (I'll make this point below too). In addition, your statement seems dogmatic and therefore contradictory to me (or at least paradoxical). Isn't it dogmatic to say that dogmatism is always bad? I think it would be dogmatic to say "dogmatism is bad because my dogma says so"... saying "dogmatism is bad because <see reasons below>" is not dogmatic. Isn't it just as possible that we could define good based on death, sadness, totalarism, dogmatism, violence, selfishness, and injustice? If you would like to try doing that, please do so in another thread. Do you really think our concept of suffering has any real meaning? Yes. Our understanding of suffering expanded with our understanding of neurobiology, but it is not new. This is why we have a prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. I think that our understanding of suffering is tied to our understanding of experiences by sentient creatures. Suffering of bacteria and corn is a fascinating topic for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The screaming carrot defense in regards to eating meat. Pathetic. If you think there is anything humane about factory farming, you've never been to one. The inhumaneness of activity A has no bearing on activity B. IF factory farming of animal is inhumane that does not mean the factory farming of cereal grains is or is not. ---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 10:17 AM ---------- I think the belief in existence of supernatural entities is indeed a yes/no type of thing, and nebulous feelings and thoughts would not qualify as having a belief. Things get complicated when we get into profession of this belief/disbelief, etc.---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 09:18 AM ---------- I think it would be dogmatic to say "dogmatism is bad because my dogma says so"... saying "dogmatism is bad because <see reasons below>" is not dogmatic. If you would like to try doing that, please do so in another thread. Yes. Our understanding of suffering expanded with our understanding of neurobiology, but it is not new. This is why we have a prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. I think that our understanding of suffering is tied to our understanding of experiences by sentient creatures. Suffering of bacteria and corn is a fascinating topic for another thread. I didn't see any reasons listed below. What makes cows sentient and not corn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The inhumaneness of activity A has no bearing on activity B.IF factory farming of animal is inhumane that does not mean the factory farming of cereal grains is or is not. ---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 10:17 AM ---------- I didn't see any reasons listed below. What makes cows sentient and not corn? You know the answer to the question you are asking and the only reason people feel empowered over other animals, is because of a religion they invented to give themselves meaning and feel important and IMO, a major reason why farming practices and the general view towards other animals, can be so arrogant and cruel. In this way, religion or just a belief in a god is just another vice to be comfortable with ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 I didn't see any reasons listed below. What makes cows sentient and not corn? If you decide to start threads discussing reasons why dogmatism is bad or why people may consider cows to be more sentient than corn, I will happily participate in them. I kindly ask you to keep such discussions out of this one. ---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 11:09 AM ---------- You know the answer to the question you are asking and the only reason people feel empowered over other animals, is because of a religion they invented to give themselves meaning and feel important and IMO, a major reason why farming practices and the general view towards other animals, can be so arrogant and cruel. ... The role of religion in treatment of animals is an interesting topic for discussion. There is clearly a relationship there, but I think it is a complex one. Some religions view all sentient beings as sacred while other religions teach that animals were given to humans by a deity to treat as they like. I would give my preference to the former. Still, economics of the situation seem like the main driving force in intensive farming and the way animals are treated there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I like the explanation of "agnostic" being a statement of knowledge while "atheist" being a statement of belief... so I see myself as an agnostic atheist.A person who is not convinced that supernatural entities exist (atheist) is not required to embrace a belief in their non-existence.[ Nicely done.....so agnostic,but a atheist wanna be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The role of religion in treatment of animals is an interesting topic for discussion. There is clearly a relationship there, but I think it is a complex one. Some religions view all sentient beings as sacred while other religions teach that animals were given to humans by a deity to treat as they like. I would give me preference to the former.Still, economics of the situation seem like the main driving force in intensive farming and the way animals are treated there. I know a Hindu biochemist that wouldn't kill the bacteria to get protein that he needed to do experiments. He only collaborated with other people. If you wanted to collaborate with him, you had to send him the protein that he needed to do the experiments. (Protein production and purification from bacterial cells is a common and pretty easy biochemical technique. It isn't very interesting or exciting and I don't know anybody that actually likes to do it, but it is a pre-requisite for doing most experiments with a particular protein.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Nicely done.....so agnostic,but a atheist wanna be We visited this topic over the summer under the Agnostic Atheist thread that Alexey started. This pic was posted at the time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Most corrupt institution historically: The Vatican, the US Congress, or the NCAA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Why is a Hot Water heater called that, if what it does is heats cold water?Despite heating cold water, it becomes quite hot itself in doing so. Thus, the adjective is describing the heater, and not the water. It's a hot water heater. Like a hot, busty broad. It's describing the broad, not the bust As an agnostic, my problem with religion is usually two fold. 1) I do not believe in absolute faith. I have faith that my fiancee is faithful to me. But I am not naive enough to believe that I could not be wrong. I believe in faith, it is necessary for every day trust. But I do not believe in a faith that couldn't be wrong. Thus, I could choose to believe that a deity exists despite solid evidence (as I choose to believe that my fiancee doesn't cheat on me) but this is a choice that I have made for the good of my relationship and my life, and I could later be proven to have been wrong. 2) I am familiar with too many people who believe that religion is a prerequisite for morality, and this hurts me on a personal level. A coworker of mine, a young woman in her first year of college, often likes to talk with me about dorm life and boys. One day she asked me how many women I slept with in college. I told her only one, because I was happy in my relationship and felt no need to sleep with dozens of women purely for the fun of doing so. This was a concept impossible for her to understand. In her eyes, there were only two kinds of men. The religious, moral, christian men who waited until they were married, and the heathen womanizers who were out to pillage as many girls as they could. She could not grasp that someone could choose one partner on moral grounds that were not religious. Now, I attribute this to her being quite young still, but I have met too many others with similar view points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzla3000 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Do you fast for Ramadan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Because it's nice. ~bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzla3000 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Because it's nice.~bang I just don't get it. if your godless and proud wouldn't you avoid anything to do with the supposed Son of G-d;s birthday. After all Jesus is nothing but a white guy on a stick to an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I just don't get it. if your godless and proud wouldn't you avoid anything to do with the supposed Son of G-d;s birthday. After all Jesus is nothing but a white guy on a stick to an atheist.Not at all. Jesus, at least to me, is still a man of reverence even without religion attached to him. He preached peace, morality, kindness, and charity in addition to everything else he did. I see Jesus the same way I see Gandhi, Mandela, and MLK. I don't think Christ has to be the literal son of God in order for him to have been an exceptional historical figure.Plus, have you ever tried not liking Christmas? You're basically crucified for it. I made the mistake of letting out a couple "ba-humbugs" around the work place just because I like being a contrarian a-hole. People really do NOT take kindly to it; they see it as a personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I just don't get it. if your godless and proud wouldn't you avoid anything to do with the supposed Son of G-d;s birthday. After all Jesus is nothing but a white guy on a stick to an atheist. He's a covert operative in the War on Christmas. :pfft: Probably decorates his house and then plants IEDs on the roof to intercept Saint Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Not at all. Jesus, at least to me, is still a man of reverence even without religion attached to him. He preached peace, morality, kindness, and charity in addition to everything else he did. I see Jesus the same way I see Gandhi, Mandela, and MLK. I don't think Christ has to be the literal son of God in order for him to have been an exceptional historical figure.Plus, have you ever tried not liking Christmas? You're basically crucified for it. I made the mistake of letting out a couple "ba-humbugs" around the work place just because I like being a contrarian a-hole. People really do NOT take kindly to it; they see it as a personal attack. I agree with this. Also to add, if you can find the Religion in Christmas, good for you, because I see heartless rhetoric and empty motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I just don't get it. if your godless and proud wouldn't you avoid anything to do with the supposed Son of G-d;s birthday. After all Jesus is nothing but a white guy on a stick to an atheist. I already have a strong sense you won't be the last person I say this to, but with appropriate forum goals in mind, I will tell you this is your last post in this thread (soemthing we do here from time to time since before I was on staff), and it was very stupid one. You can also consider yourself lucky you didn't get a month off for serious trolling. And as much as I remember off-hand, I like you fine as a poster not that it matters (I always like to point such things out out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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