sideshow24 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Got the flu shot this year for the first time ever. Two months later I got the flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Never get one. I rarely get sick and I try not to put unnecessary chemicals in my body. Yes, I believe those 2 things are related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Do yourselves a favor. Read this (45 pages long). http://www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Do yourselves a favor. Read this (45 pages long).http://www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf Cliff's notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Got the flu shot this year for the first time ever. Two months later I got the flu. read somewhere 25% of those getting the flu had gotten the shot, maybe they guessed wrong strain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Cliff's notes? Nope. If you want an informed opinion... you have to educate yourself :-) It`s your health. It`s worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Nope. If you want an informed opinion... you have to educate yourself :-)It`s your health. It`s worth it. Ill give it a shot. Pardon the pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Ill give it a shot. Pardon the pun. Good on you. Don`t let uninformed people make your decisions for your about your health. Make your own opinions. Here`s another quick and recent article -- not necessarily related to `vaccination` and ìmmunization`.... but the companies and health regulatory bodies that attempt to make your decisions for you: Forbes.com: A Drug Recall That Should Frighten Us All About The FDA http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmaris/2012/10/10/fda-recall-points-to-serious-problems-at-the-fda/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I can't recall the last time I had the flu. Never gotten the shot. If I get sick, its a sinus/chest cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Do yourselves a favor. Read this (45 pages long).http://www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf Always interesting to read through these studies. How has this influenced your outlook on vaccinations, particularly vaccinations of children? Have you come across any studies like this performed on FDA and CDC vaccination protocol that would make this type of study relavent to U.S. vaccination policy and oversight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 How has this influenced your outlook on vaccinations, particularly vaccinations of children?Have you come across any studies like this performed on FDA and CDC vaccination protocol that would make this type of study relavent to U.S. vaccination policy and oversight? Myself, I am anti-vaccination :-) On all accounts. I believe the only time pharmaceuticals should ever be administered are for heroic measures -- when the body is unable to heal itself and it`s the difference between life and death. Granted, I`m enrolled in the study of Osteopathy... so I have a very strong bias. Take that for what it`s worth. I spend every waking and free minute studying health and disease.... and I`ve dedicated my life to it. It`s my passion. With that being said, I`m just not inclined to give justifications to everybody on my belief systems. I`ve already invested too much.. I`m not just going to give it away to people who wish to argue for the sake of arguing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Myself, I am anti-vaccination :-) On all accounts. I believe the only time pharmaceuticals should ever be administered are for heroic measures -- when the body is unable to heal itself and it`s the difference between life and death. Just one question (I don't want to argue, I jus want to really understand where you are). If small pox was released some how and started to spread, you wouldn't support a vaccination program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Just one question (I don't want to argue, I jus want to really understand where you are).If small pox was released some how and started to spread, you wouldn't support a vaccination program? You are looking for a simple answer. A simple yes or no. Just like any philosophical question that starts off as a simple question... and ultimately leads to a simple answer; but that simple answer comes about from a very long and drawn out thought process. So while I would say NO, I won`t support a vaccination program... I`m not going to be drawn into discussion about how I came about that conclusion. It`s too indepth. I`ve done my research on vaccinations... and I`m very very very comfortable with my positions. I can bombard you with plenty of articles, sources and research papers... and I`m not talking about wacked-out `fight-the-power` `the government are conspiracists` type of resources... but from medical journals from allopathic sources. I know about the history of small pox. All about it thanks :-) Anyways, just a quick sample: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1202865 - That`s from the New England Journal of Medicine... not some hippie resource. - A mumps outbreak in New York/New Jersey 2 years ago. Thousands infected. 90% of them were vaccinated. Vaccination sounds nice in principle. It`s considered Prophylaxic medicine which I wholeheartedly believe in. But vaccination is one model of it... but I disagree with it. I believe it is fundamentally wrong and harmful... and doesn`t make scientific sense. I`ve read about germ theory... I`ve read about the history of medicine. There`s amazing stuff that I`ve read about pathology that most of you will learn about someday and things that will turn over our current understanding of pathogens (bacteria, virus, parasites, etc). We have new discoveries every day in medicine... and what`s truth today won`t be tomorrow. But that applies to almost everything too. So you have to be open to things... and challenge things and don`t take anything for granted. Formulate your own educated opinions and trust them. What`s the old saying about the 3 phases of truth :-) If it`s one thing I`ve learned from being in medicine... is that for every 10 articles on one subject there is just as much information on the other side of the fence. You read them both... and find out which one makes the most sense to you (ie. fundamentally sound) and don`t doubt yourself. There are no absolutes in this world.. just your relative thoughts and beliefs. I know what I believe... and why I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think I am allergic to the flu shot. I have tried them 3-5 times and different varieties and each time I get the full blown flu. Not a partial version but sick in my bed for a week or more! So NO FLU shot for me! ---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 09:41 AM ---------- From a pet aspect I do believe that pets are over vaccinated and it could be the same for humans. My kids get blood test to determine if they need a distemper vaccine. I wish I could do this with Rabies too as they make them but stupid laws will not allow me for my dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Here`s another quick article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/ineffectiveness-and-dangers-of-flu-shots/15536 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hospital Opens Emergency Tent in Midst of Increasing Flu Cases Lehigh Valley Hospital-Cedar Crest opens an emergency triage to care for the increased number of people with flu-like symptoms It’s the most miserable time of the year for many people in the area. Flu season is in full effect and this one in particular is shaping up to be more extreme than usual. The State Department of Health reports that four Pennsylvanians have already died of complications from the influenza virus. In response to the early start of flu season, the Lehigh Valley Hospital-Cedar Crest had to open an emergency space to care for the increased number of people with flu-like symptoms. The hospital tells NBC10's Katy Zachry why the tent was erected. "If we can remove them from the main ED and put them in environment where everyone is masked and everyone can be protected, it's safer for them and certainly safer for the staff," said Terry Burger, hospital director of infection control. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 When do most of these outbreaks occur? What seasons? What demographics are people are most susceptible to infection? ---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 10:30 AM ---------- China, you aren't asking yourself intelligent questions like "why". You're using broad information without thinking about specs. I can do that too!!! I know plenty smokers that lived to be over 90. I know plenty of grossly obese people to live to be over 90 too. I know skinny people who have heart attacks and diabetes. So apparently smoking and bad dietary decisions do not cause death and ill health right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Vaccination is about reducing risk, not guaranteeing immunity to everyone. High levels of exposure was behind those outbreaks, often introduced from overseas where there are less widespread vaccination programs. If enough of the population is vaccinated the prevalence of the virus is greatly reduced and in some cases eradicated. What do you think is the reason behind the decline in polio, smallpox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Here`s a simple consideration. All disease has an inflammatory component. Whether acute or chronic. You can have acute episodes of a chronic debility. However, there`s no evidence of a physiological process of chronic inflammation that is constant for a lengthened period of time -- that would lead to death. They are broken down into episodes... which is why sick people have flare-ups (acute episodes) and remissions. The very fact that the body has the ability to have a conclusion to each acute episode indicates that that the ability DOES have the ability heal itself. Otherwise, the inflammatory episodes would never end. So, the real concern begs the question... why does the body consistently initiate acute inflammatory flare-ups in chronic diseases (ie. rheumatism). Why doesn`t the body have a more permanent solution to the inflammation. Now, that`s an interesting philosophical question. Regarding influenza, I believe in immunity. I believe in NATURAL immunity. I KNOW the body has the ability... we both (pro-vaccination crowds) do... but I believe the best immunity is through proper transmission -- not intramuscular injections. I don`t believe this unorthodox method of transmission.... on top of injecting an attenuated or dead virus... is true immunity. Yes, getting sick sucks... but it`s just as much part of life as is death. Getting vaccinations has more to do with business than anything else. Big pharma, etc... but mostly that there`s an economic cost to people getting sick and taking days off work. Like that should ever be a consideration for healthcare decisions in the best interest of people. ---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 10:53 AM ---------- What do you think is the reason behind the decline in polio, smallpox? What do you know about the polio and small pox and their vaccines? What do you know about their histories, the doctors who invented those vaccines, the etiology of those pathogens, the time line and progression of those diseases and the introduction of the vaccines, and the results of those vaccines? Those are questions you should be honest with yourself about... before you have an opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I know plenty smokers that lived to be over 90. I know plenty of grossly obese people to live to be over 90 too. I know skinny people who have heart attacks and diabetes.So apparently smoking and bad dietary decisions do not cause death and ill health right? Anecdotes are not the same as data. Obesity and smoking significantly increase health risks. But there are few guarantees in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Anecdotes are not the same as data. Obesity and smoking significantly increase health risks. But there are few guarantees in life. You honestly don`t think I could find thousands of people that would fit that criteria in any study? Have you ever read behind some of the abstracts of medication? Medication gets released on studies conducted with as little as 3-8 participants. You would be floored if you did some research on what qualifies as scientific study and data. You have NO idea how new the concept of germ theory, vaccinations and pharmacology actually is. Do some digging into the history of medicine. This is all new relatively new stuff. The fact that people give implicit trust to pharmaceutical companies and government regulatory bodies is mind boggling to me. Look at the research. Look who`s conducting it. Look at the science. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 What do you know about the polio and small pox and their vaccines? What do you know about their histories, the doctors who invented those vaccines, the etiology of those pathogens, the time line and progression of those diseases and the introduction of the vaccines, and the results of those vaccines? I know a fair amount. It's a regular topic of discussion with friends - one is a research scientist in virology, and another is a practicing MD and Professor of Biomedical Informatics. Your bias with osteopathy is obvious. The data on the reduction in incidence of smallpox and polio is clearly attributable to vaccination programs. What's your explanation? ---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 11:05 AM ---------- You honestly don`t think I could find thousands of people that would fit that criteria in any study?Have you ever read behind some of the abstracts of medication? Medication gets released on studies conducted with as little as 3-8 participants. You would be floored if you did some research on what qualifies as scientific study and data. You have NO idea how new the concept of germ theory, vaccinations and pharmacology actually is. Do some digging into the history of medicine. This is all new relatively new stuff. The fact that people give implicit trust to pharmaceutical companies and government regulatory bodies is mind boggling to me. Look at the research. Look who`s conducting it. Look at the science. . Yes, I'm aware of big pharma, and how flawed regulation can be. But are you seriously arguing that obesity and smoking do not have negative health consequences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 What doctors don't know about the drugs they prescribe: http://www.wimp.com/doctorsdrugs/ Medical doctor. Not an alternative medicine doctor. Consider this when you read medical research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 What doctors don't know about the drugs they prescribe:http://www.wimp.com/doctorsdrugs/ Medical doctor. Not an alternative medicine doctor. Consider this when you read medical research. Yes, there are incompetent doctors. And there are corrupt corporations, And there are quacks and charlatans in all fields. But that doesn't mean we should discard all of medical science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 `One of the great triumphs of medical science is said to involve the eradication of smallpox. The fact that it was in decline before mass vaccination was instituted is conveniently forgotten, as are many cases of fully immunized individuals contracting the disease. Dr. Glen Dettmen (Health Consciousness, October 1986): `It is pathetic and ludicrous to say we vanquished smallpox with vaccines, when only 10 percent of the population were ever vaccinated. ---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 11:10 AM ---------- Yes, there are incompetent doctors. And there are corrupt corporations, And there are quacks and charlatans in all fields. But that doesn't mean we should discard all of medical science. Hold on, I never said we should discard medical science in its entirety. It certainly has value. I just said that vaccination is a model of preventative medicine. And not one that I condone for public health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.