visionary Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Apparently there's already an anti-Biden ad out. Yikes. ---------- Post added October-12th-2012 at 12:07 AM ---------- Were they watching/listening? Not sure, I didn't hear that part because I was running up and down the stairs to do other stuff, lol. I would assume they were doing one of the two, but I don't know how the poll was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Biden Smurk ad."Biden is Laughing....are You?"Nice Biden Interrupted Ryan 82 Times http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/10/11/Biden-Interrupted-Ryan-82-Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 "Biden is Laughing....are You?"Nice Biden Interrupted Ryan 82 Times http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/10/11/Biden-Interrupted-Ryan-82-Times Boo ******* Hoo. Some of you should put on your big boy pants. I love how interrupting is somehow worse than your presidential candidate lying during his debate. Great priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Biden contradicts State Department on Benghazi security Vice President Joe Biden claimed that the administration wasn't aware of requests for more security in Libya before the Sept. 11 attacks on the U.S. mission in Benghazi during Thursday night's debate, contradicting two State Department officials and the former head of diplomatic security in Libya. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/11/biden_contradicts_state_department_on_benghazi_security Who the ______ is lying again? Thats 2 lies on Biden.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 CNN begs to differBut I didnt look at MSNBS CNN also said this SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public. CBS is the only one who ran the undecided numbers in a real poll (not CNBCs online ****) and they showed 51% Biden to 30% Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I hope they're giving you OT for your hard work Ihop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 CNN also said this....I am still surprised at the #s...---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 09:31 PM ---------- I hope they're giving you OT for your hard work IhopOT is the time I am spending waiting for Ryans first lie to be posted.....or any kind of aknowledgment on Bidens liesBesides...its only 9:30 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 in the fine print about the CNN poll http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3262 SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public. it was intentionally rigged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I am still surprised at the #s...---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 09:31 PM ---------- OT is the time I am spending waiting for Ryans first lie to be posted.....or any kind of aknowledgment on Bidens lies Besides...its only 9:30 here the biggest one I remember was when he fumbled out the word "honesty" near the end of the debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I thought it was bad to accuse the media of bias, lol. Anyway, some more poll numbers. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/ It all comes out pretty much even after taking the 'bias' and or 'rigging' into account. Not exactly a smashing victory for Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I thought it was bad to accuse the media of bias, lol.Anyway, some more poll numbers. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/ It all comes out pretty much even after taking the 'bias' and or 'rigging' into account. Not exactly a smashing victory for Biden. With people who hadn't already made up their mind Biden blew Ryan out of the water A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience. With a poll that admittedly over sampled Republicans the fact that it was a tie within the margin of error doesn't really show anything, especially for a snap poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_328 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Hey all, I have the answer to who won the VP debate... looking to trade for 2 tix to the Nats game 5 playoff game! PM me Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyRain Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I\'ve just heard someone on MSNBC put it in perpective on who won: this isn\'t verbatim. 1. Last week the Dem base was deflated and the Reps were elevated, those positions are now reversed. 2. Want to know how Joe Biden won? Both sides are talking about Biden and not Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 With people who hadn't already made up their mind Biden blew Ryan out of the waterWith a poll that admittedly over sampled Republicans the fact that it was a tie within the margin of error doesn't really show anything, especially for a snap poll. Funnily when I went onto CBS' site the first thing I saw was a big obama ad on the front page, plus a bunch of articles with very postive headlines for Obama. I finally found an article about the CBS poll. Interesting numbers. Looks like Biden did a little bit better in their poll than Romney did last week. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/?pageNum=2&tag=page ---------- Post added October-12th-2012 at 12:55 AM ---------- 2. Want to know how Joe Biden won? Both sides are talking about Biden and not Ryan. I'm not sure that's a good thing, or that it helps Obama in the long run. But at least he's deflected attention and criticism away from Obama's debate performance, and the Libya incident. I'm curious to see how that new RNC ad plays out though. I think unlike most ads it's very catchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 People talking about Biden is usually a bad thing for the Dems ....just saying:) I slept through this debate as well ...interesting comments though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poman Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Biden is freaking arrogant. When he smiles and laughs, he's smiling and laughing at a large percentage of the population. Like he is better than them, and "in the know". Repulsive way to conduct himself, and certainly not something I look for in somebody who could be president. Would he laugh at the PM of Great Britain if they didnt agree with him? Disrespectful, and totally uncalled for in America. Dude needs to conduct himself appropriately. Disagree all you want, but ridicule of your oppenents gets you NOWHERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Pablo Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 ---------- Post added October-12th-2012 at 01:52 AM ---------- [/color] Dude needs to conduct himself appropriately. Disagree all you want, but ridicule of your oppenents gets you NOWHERE. Okay, nowhere in this debate did Biden engage in ad hominem attacks. All he did was voice his displeasure with what Ryan was saying, but he provided substantive rationales, too. And yes, he was overly aggressive at times. A smirk doesn't completely dispel what he had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Boy genius got crushed. I feel kinda bad for Ryan. The expectations were so high for him tonight. He fell short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 As a gen-u-wine expert :pfft: in perception and bias, this thread will make great and timely topical material for a class discussion if most of the folks saw the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It was a very spirited debate. I think the moderator was great, and she hit Biden with a tough question on the killing of US ambassador right off the bat. I don't buy the Libya consulate building attack as a valid scandal... that's just me. It was a cold blooded terrorist attack that caught us completely blind. Did the GOP say "let's not even have an ambassador in Benghazi?"... no. It seems very hard to attack an administration on foreign policy strategy. Ryan got owned hard when it came to Afghanistan and Iran. Ryan was trying to attack style, but in the end; he couldn't articulate any difference in Romney's foreign policy. I don't have a problem with Biden smiling at Ryan, I would probably smile too... why do you have to sit there while the other guy is completely building up straw man positions for you? For all the criticism about Biden, I think Ryan should get criticized for talking, and talking, and talking, and talking. It seems like he had a 2:1 advantage in talking time. While the moderator did a good job with the questions and controlling the tempo of the topics, she should have cut off Ryan more because he talked way too much. On domestic entitlements, I think Ryan got bogged down in the facts... throwing out numbers, reports, and arguing with Biden on whether you're creating a $6,400 shortfall in Medicare while all Biden has to do is look in the camera and say "We support social security and medicare, and they are going to 'reform' it (ie. screw folks over)" is a very hard hill for the GOP to climb over. The reason the GOP has to play the stupid "55 and over game" is bull; screw over everyone equally (that's more extreme than they go) so I like the Democrats at least for being consistent. If Biden wanted to be cute, he should have asked Ryan how phasing out some of their benefits is a "tax"... although I think he made some comment about taxes to Ryan. I already had my opinion about Biden; I like him, and he's great at foreign policy and saying what Democrats are. Biden came off like a professional; Ryan came off like an amatuer trying to show that he belongs with the professionals. The question that shows this was the one where the highly-decorated soldier lamented about how sad watching the Presidential race was. Biden hit a home run on his answer, he was diplomatic, he admitted that things happen on the campaign that he regretted. Ryan came out, and what did he do? He launched an attack on Biden! Really, what you want to say to the guy who is upset over political attacks, is to launch into an attack on Biden?! It will be interesting to see how Romney puts daylight on Obama's foreign policy. Especially since the one stark difference is how Ryan wanted more American troops in harm's way in Afghanistan... he also kept bringing up some agreement that Biden couldn't get. One more thing I remember from the debate Ryan's closing statement about welfare state, government dependency BS. I have a hard time believing that their "pro growth" (aka trickle down, less regulation) policies will be beneficial. Furthermore, with unemployment going under 8%, they have a hard time arguing the country is going in the wrong direction. Oh; and Ryan didn't say that they were sure when and how they could get the economy to under 6%. If you're GOP conservative, you need to talk about rising medical costs; how its rising medical costs that are killing entitlements, and talk about how you are going to control costs, and your plan will control costs. Ryan didn't do that. If you're a GOP conservative you need to talk about how we can't afford entitlements like we had before. You need to talk about how you want to gut the government, because we need to get deficits and our debt under control. Ryan didn't make a strong enough case, although he mentioned it. It would be nice if he said, "there will be pain when we make the GOP-type of cuts we would like to make"; he didn't sell it hard enough because he knows they can't deliver on the "pro growth" promises if you remove the deficit spending. That's just reality... Ryan the reformer... yeah... sure... you might be able to sell that but I'm not buying it. There's a reason someone like Rand Paul isn't on the top of the ticket.... I think Americans kind've like big government.... ---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 11:33 PM ---------- ... and I hated all the crap that Ryan brought up about people from middle America. Sure; Romney's a great guy and generous with his own money, than why is he going to be so stingy with the government's money? Also, the GOP attacking on bi-partisanship... really, kind've forgot about what Mitch McConnell said... something about not wanting to help Obama get re-election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poman Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 ---------- Post added October-12th-2012 at 01:52 AM ----------[/color] Okay' date=' nowhere in this debate did Biden engage in ad hominem attacks. All he did was voice his displeasure with what Ryan was saying, but he provided substantive rationales, too. And yes, he was overly aggressive at times. A smirk doesn't completely dispel what he had to say.[/quote'] Substantial rationales? He completely ingnored the questions posed to him, for example, this first one about intelligence about the Benghazi attacks. 20 seconds into it he's talking about iraq and afghanistan and attacking Romney. It is not his place to "voice his displeasure" when Ryan is talking. Debate the points when it is your turn. Laughing and sighing like a schoolgirl while your opponent talks does nothing. It was arrogant, disrespectful, and completely in line for what is expected in this election. 15 years ago this would be unacceptable. The state of politics is sad. I am embarrassed to see that this is the point elections in America have come to. Such a shame, and even worse so that people would defend these actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-vice-presidential-debate/2012/10/12/e900404a-13d0-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_blog.html I remember in a previous thread someone talked about 'Lies" and said "Post them" This is easy thanks to the Post. By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.” That Head Bob thing Ryan has is hard to watch! “I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.” Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.” And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post. ABC’s MARTHA RADDATZ: “And they wanted more security there.” BIDEN: “Well we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security there. And by the way, at the time, we were told exactly, we said what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view we made it clear they changed their view. That’s why I said we will get to the bottom of this. You know, usually when there is a crisis, we pull together, we pull together as a nation. But as I said, even before we knew what happened to the ambassador, the governor was holding a press conference, was holding a press conference. That’s not presidential leadership.” Josh Rogin explains why this is wrong: In fact, two security officials who worked for the State Department in Libya at the time testified Thursday that they repeatedly requested more security and two State Department officials admitted they had denied those requests. “It’s a plan I put together with a prominent Democrat senator from Oregon.” — Ryan “There’s not one Democrat who endorses it.” — Biden Here, Ryan goes too far. Biden is right — Ryan worked with former White House budget director Alice Rivlin and Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) on versions of his Medicare plan, but both since have distanced themselves from the final proposal, saying it did not reflect their discussions. BusinessWeek reported that Wyden said that Ryan is “talking nonsense” about their partnership. “We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer.” — Ryan Ryan brings up some old history here about the hopes the administration originally had about the Syrian leader. Most famously, as the uprising in Syria began in 2011, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said that “many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he’s a reformer.” She quickly tried to take back her statement, saying two days later: “I referenced opinions of others. That was not speaking either for myself or for the administration.” We actually looked into this question at the time and concluded that Clinton’s claim of a bipartisan support for the idea that Assad was a reformer was not credible. She earned Three Pinocchios. But it is worth remembering this was never stated as an official U.S. policy position, as Ryan suggests. More at link: Final thought : Biden Outright lies a few times on Easy to Remember Stuff. "Lyan Ryan" as LSF states was more truthful last night My tin foil hat also tells me the moderator/VP Biden combination seemed to give Ryan a hard time also. He lost the debate. But the interruptions and follow-up questions should be counted also as my hyper sensitive tissue wielding self says it was obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Fwiw. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/10/11/vp_debate_recap_joe_biden_said_my_friend_how_many_times_and_other_numbers.html Total speaking time during the 90-minute debate (by CNN's count): Joe Biden: 41 minutes, 32 seconds; Paul Ryan: 40 minutes, 12 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 But Biden didn't allow Ryan to speak! Republicans are just spinning excuses now in order to save their own hide. "He was mean! He smiled too much!" Deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Whining about a guy being arrogant and rude is highly amusing coming from the party that has basically made being arrogant and rude their staple over the last 4 years. Don't like the taste of their own medicine. Just the past four years? The Bush administration wasn't the height of arrogance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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