***2012-13 NBA THREAD!!! New Season/New Thread - LET'S GO!!!!!***

[authentic]

I knew Harden's game was going to have people saying uh-oh. But don't get it twisted, no matter what Harden does, the Thunder are the winners of this trade. They weren't going to sign him back anyway and they got incredible value for him....

With that being said, that Harden/Lin back court is going to be fun to watch.

I agree with you.. i think they made out better in this trade. Not to minimize Harden's contribution to OKC, because i was one of the first people to say that Harden was gone.. this was last season, going into the playoffs and folks basically laughed me to scorn. Anyways, i also think that both OKC and Houston are better off...

[Zhouse]

Martin is awful.

Harden gave them three elite scoring options' date=' two great ball handlers, and a pretty good perimeter defender...plus he's a guy with an edge who attacks the rim like only maybe three other guards in the league do. Martin is maybe the worst defender in the league. He requires half a dozen screens to get his points. He's not a good ball handler. He'll be an ok sixth man, but I don't see him playing in the last 4 minutes of any important game. And Lamb is a rookie.

They traded an All Star for a one dimensional player and some future assets.

NBA fans are obsessed with tomorrow for some reason. I don't get it. Somehow Lamb and a potential later lottery pick is as valuable as one of the three best shooting guards in the league - who I may add is only 23 years old.

---------- Post added October-31st-2012 at 11:31 PM ----------

Name a shooting guard who does not turn 30 this season that is better than Harden.

Given the situation OKC was in, I think they came out looking pretty good. I was a smart move to move Harden and not let this be distraction. He turned down $52 Mil to stay in OKC and continue to make a championship run. This move paid off for him if his priority was getting paid (and NO he's not worth $80M). He's now going to be stuck in Houston playing regular season basketball.

OKC on the other hand will continue to be a top contender in the West.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Who the Rockets or the Thunder?

In both cases, I think both teams have a better chance to win.

You think the Thunder have a better chance to win this year without James Harden.

That's simply idiotic.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 10:03 AM ----------

OKC on the other hand will continue to be a top contender in the West.

They were the best team in the West last week. Now they are a "top contender."

How is this a good thing?

[RonArtest15]

Food for thought - look at the comparison.

James Harden plays basketball like a video game character: all 3s, dunks, and layups. About 87 percent of his shots come from either near the rim or beyond the 3-point arc. He’s great in both areas, but make no mistake — it’s his ability to create and convert opportunities at the basket that makes him special. He’s incredible off the dribble, in transition, and in pick-and-roll situations. He has a high basketball IQ that’s most obvious in the two-man game, in which he reads and reacts better and faster than almost any other NBA player.

Simply put, Harden is an elite player for two reasons: his ability to create close-range shots, and his ability to make long-range shots. When you look at his shooting chart, you realize it’s almost as if mid-range shots bore him.

Link

Wasn't a chance in hell that the Thunder could have resigned him. IMO, they made a HUGE mistake by re-upping Ibaka before Harden. Harden, IMO, will be considered the best 2 guard in the league probably within the next 2-3 years. Ibaka, for all purposes, is a project. Harden's absence on OKC can't be replaced. For as much as people sweat Presti, I think he goofed in this whole Ibaka/Harden situation.

[Zhouse]

You think the Thunder have a better chance to win this year without James Harden.

That's simply idiotic.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 10:03 AM ----------

They were the best team in the West last week. Now they are a "top contender."

How is this a good thing?

Every season is a new season. Look at the Lakers and Clippers, they've tooled up. The Spurs won't go away and they gave OKC a run for their money last year.

Another thing to consider is, 12 months from now Harden was gonna walk away leaving OKC empty handed or scrambling to get a deal done. Instead 12 months from now, we'll be talking about Lamb's progress and who OKC will draft with their multiple first round picks.

Given everything i've seen from OKC, they are a well managed team.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Every season is a new season. Look at the Lakers and Clippers, they've tooled up. The Spurs won't go away and they gave OKC a run for their money last year.

Another thing to consider is, 12 months from now Harden was gonna walk away leaving OKC empty handed or scrambling to get a deal done. Instead 12 months from now, we'll be talking about Lamb's progress and who OKC will draft with their multiple first round picks.

So what? If Harden walks, he walks. You figure out how to replace him then...like maybe by signing Kevin Martin. It's almost impossible for a team to have three talents like Durant, Westbrook, and Harden at the same time. To just give up a year of that is insane.

Given everything i've seen from OKC, they are a well managed team.

I agree. They still screwed up.

By the way, one thing being overlooked is that Harden could not just have walked away. He would have been a restricted free agent next year. The Thunder could have signed him and then tried to trade him next year if they wanted to. They didn't, because they didn't want to pay the tax.

But they had all kinds of options. They could have matched any offers. They could have amnestyed Perkins.

All would have caused short-term financial pain, but the team has made something like $100 million in profit in the last three years.

I just see no way to justify this. This is not a team bleeding money like the Kings. This was a team rolling in cash that gave up an All Star in order to keep rolling in cash.

[Zhouse]

Food for thought - look at the comparison.

Wasn't a chance in hell that the Thunder could have resigned him. IMO, they made a HUGE mistake by re-upping Ibaka before Harden. Harden, IMO, will be considered the best 2 guard in the league probably within the next 2-3 years. Ibaka, for all purposes, is a project. Harden's absence on OKC can't be replaced. For as much as people sweat Presti, I think he goofed in this whole Ibaka/Harden situation.

Don't you think finding a competent guard is more doable than a PF/C? Ibaka led the league in blocks.

So what? If Harden walks' date=' he walks. You figure out how to replace him then...like maybe by signing Kevin Martin. It's almost impossible for a team to have three talents like Durant, Westbrook, and Harden at the same time. To just give up a year of that is insane.

I agree. They still screwed up.[/quote']

Time will tell.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Food for thought - look at the comparison.

I've watched a fair amount of Martin since I moved to Houston. I've never seen a player quite like him. He's a jump shooter that gets his points off free throws. You pretty much have to design your offense around his skills in order to get anything out of him. I highly doubt that Houston is going to have Durant setting screens for Martin.

What makes Harden so special is that if he has the ball, he's going to get a good shot. The end.

[Monte51Coleman]

Uncle Drew: Chapter 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLyvkBifQ3w

[authentic]

Wasn't a chance in hell that the Thunder could have resigned him. IMO, they made a HUGE mistake by re-upping Ibaka before Harden. Harden, IMO, will be considered the best 2 guard in the league probably within the next 2-3 years. Ibaka, for all purposes, is a project. Harden's absence on OKC can't be replaced. For as much as people sweat Presti, I think he goofed in this whole Ibaka/Harden situation.

good point and i agree...

[CrypticVillain]

You think the Thunder have a better chance to win this year without James Harden.

That's simply idiotic.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 10:03 AM ----------

They were the best team in the West last week. Now they are a "top contender."

How is this a good thing?

I misunderstood what you were saying you idiot

Yes the Thunder had a better chance of winning a week ago. I thought you were saying last year.

I think right now, Harden is just a more efficient version of Jamal Crawford, you aren't winning championships with him, Durant and Westbrook.

You will have a better chance with Ibaka, Durant, and Westbrook. No telling who else the Thunder could get with them draft picks they just raided Houston for. What if they can package something and get a Demarcus Cousins?

Like I said, both teams are better off. The Rockets went from being a boring team that would probably be around the bottom of the west, to an exciting team that will float around the 8th seed in the playoffs.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I

You will have a better chance with Ibaka, Durant, and Westbrook. No telling who else the Thunder could get with them draft picks they just raided Houston for. What if they can package something and get a Demarcus Cousins?

How are they going to pay Cousins when they wouldn't pay Harden?

They did this not to pay the luxury tax. Trading those assets from a proven All-Star level player puts them right back in the same situation.

They have completely trapped themselves through an artificial salary cap.

[nuposse87]

While I think people are a bit too harsh on Westbrook (mainly because he's actually worth a damn on the defensive end) another avenue OKC could have considered was retaining Harden to a near max deal and trading Westbook to POR for Lilliard and expirings.

More and more it seems if the Lakers experiment with Howard fizzles out, that Howard would be best served with signing with another western conference team, and the funny thing is, I think HOU and OKC are the best shot for him to make a lethal Big Three (well big 2.5 in HOU since Lin is garbage).

[Hersh]

How are they going to pay Cousins when they wouldn't pay Harden?

They did this not to pay the luxury tax. Trading those assets from a proven All-Star level player puts them right back in the same situation.

They have completely trapped themselves through an artificial salary cap.

You are free to doubt Kevin Durant. I bet he just loves hearing all the talk that OKC isn't as good now and won't get to the finals or win a championship. He'll have something to say in 5 months when the playoffs start and OKC is the one or two seed.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You are free to doubt Kevin Durant. I bet he just loves hearing all the talk that OKC isn't as good now and won't get to the finals or win a championship. He'll have something to say in 5 months when the playoffs start and OKC is the one or two seed.

I love Kevin Durant.

He's not the one who decided that a big profit was more important than a title run.

OKC could still win. That doesn't make this deal correct.

[CrypticVillain]

How are they going to pay Cousins when they wouldn't pay Harden?

They did this not to pay the luxury tax. Trading those assets from a proven All-Star level player puts them right back in the same situation.

They have completely trapped themselves through an artificial salary cap.

I was talking about getting Cousins if his contract was expiring for a one-year loaner.

You can say Martin is some garbage, but I think he will be okay coming off the bench for OKC. The wildcard is Jeramey Lamb. Dude is a beast, however, it seems that he has the same problem a lot of young men have when they are that young. He holds things back. Last year I swear it were a couple of games when he could have dominated. But one thing he does remain consistent at is perimieter defense. Now I don't know if he will be good as Harden..... this year on the defensive end. Now in a couple of years, I can see him putting the straps on any guard. Him and Westbrook would probably be able to shut any backcourt down.

[RonArtest15]

Don't you think finding a competent guard is more doable than a PF/C? Ibaka led the league in blocks.

Time will tell.

I think he's an elite shot-blocker, but IMO, Harden brings much more to the table. I think they would have been better served to give Harden a better deal than to pretty much give Ibaka 12 mil per year and him a shade over 13. To me, that's kind of disrespectful. Ibaka did get face value on his deal (in comparison to McGee and Deandre Jordan), but for someone who if you tried hard enough, you could make a case for being the BEST 2-guard in the league, it's a slap in the face.

You can find good defensive bigs on the cheap much easier than finding stat-stuffing 2-guards who can also run an offense. What if OKC offered Harden something like 60 mil before coming to the table w/ an offer for Ibaka's camp? I'd have to think that Harden would have considered re-signing in OKC off of principal.

*FWIW, I've read that durant is PISSED at how all of this went down. I have to agree w/LKB...this deal didn't make the Thunder any better.

[Going Commando]

I think people are overthinking the Serge Ibaka thing.

It doesn't matter if he's a PF/C. James Harden is simple a MUCH better player than him. Harden was a US Olympian and an All Star. Ibaka was a bench player on Spain's team.

Ibaka's specialty is defense and he's not even that great at it. He was a genuine liability against Miami because he's not quick enough to deal with the small ball lineup. Nor is he strong enough to defend true bigs like they've got in Los Angeles and Memphis. He's a valuable role player right now--nothing more.

That's why it was stupid as hell to choose him over Harden.

And they absolutely could have had both if they'd wanted... As Bill Simmons pointed out, OKC didn't make this movie to save money. They made it to save profit. They're making tons of money already.

If I were Durant and Westbrook I would be more than pissed about it. The FO screwed up a great thing for them. When are they ever going to beat Miami now? When LeBron's using a rocker and Durant is 30 something?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I like Ibaka a lot, but I don't understand why they paid him so much (I'm pretty certain it was more than his market value) while playing hardball with Harden.

Harden is a max player. You can argue all day whether he is worth it or not, but Morey - who is pretty smart about these things - did not blink in giving him a max deal. So, live withat reality. The open market said he is a max player.

Like others have said, within two years, he is going to be the consensus "Best 2 Guard in the League."

[Going Commando]

I've watched a fair amount of Martin since I moved to Houston. I've never seen a player quite like him. He's a jump shooter that gets his points off free throws. You pretty much have to design your offense around his skills in order to get anything out of him. I highly doubt that Houston is going to have Durant setting screens for Martin.

What makes Harden so special is that if he has the ball' date=' he's going to get a good shot. The end.[/quote']

Yeah Martin is definitely an odd bird. He's not quick and he's not strong. He's just tall, has great touch, and he has a craftiness in understanding angles and spacing that makes you foul him to defend him. He's kind of like Dirk in that way.

He's an average NBA SG. He'll be a 3 point shooter and second line scorer for OKC this season, nothing more. He's not going to be a factor for them long term.

This trade boils down to Jeremy Lamb. For OKC to simply come out even, Lamb needs to be really really good and Ibaka needs to make a huge leap. I don't see either of those things happening personally. Watching Lamb last season, he had far too much Nick Young in him.

Otherwise, the only way OKC wins a title is if the competition to tanks or Westbrook and Durant get a good deal better than they already are. The latter could happen. It happened for LeBron.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

but Morey - who is pretty smart about these things

[Going Commando]

Open Court is amazing.

They're talking about if the 2012 Olympic team could have beaten 1992 and Shaq completely changed the subject to talk about how his Dream Team II would have beaten the 1992 team.

It's priceless. Chuck tried to say "Ewing and Robinson would have worn you down" and he responded "You know 1994 Shaq don't get worn down!" Shaq said matter of factly that 1992 would have had to double him. And you know what? He's probably right.

[Hersh]

And they absolutely could have had both if they'd wanted... As Bill Simmons pointed out, OKC didn't make this movie to save money. They made it to save profit. They're making tons of money already.

It's pretty easy for us to tell someone not to make a profit and just spend it all on their team.

[Destino]

Well the new look thunder play the spurs. We'll see how Martin does.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 10:02 PM ----------

Haseem Thabeet sighting. Didnt know he was on the thunder.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've watched two minutes of this game and am more pissed at the Thunder. Their second unit offense now seems to be Nick Collison taking 18 footers.

And Thabeet runs like someone with a broken femur.