Question for everyone: "IF" God exists, why did he create us?

[robotfire]

I'm a mormon. I'll try to sum up our take on it with 2 Nephi, chapter 2 (found in the Book of Mormon):

We believe the purpose of this life is to progress and grow. This increases our capacity for joy. According to verse 25, joy is the reason we exist: "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy."

We believe the opposition found in this world is necessary for our growth. In verse 11, Nephi explains the role of opposition: "For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility."

We mormons figured out the internet and made an official website (www.mormon.org). You can read our answer to this question here: http://mormon.org/learn/0,8672,792-84,00.html

[Jumbo]

Disclaimer--I actually wrote this below last night (got pulled away), was mainly being light-hearted and simplistic. I know much of the stuff has already been said by now

Bored? Ronery? :pfft: Outright needy? Lost a wager to his Holy Ghost side? (again, assuming the Christian construct of God here ).

I think the standard answers are already all given and I don't think a new one has been offered since the original discussion occurred.

As most know, Carlin (I can't help it) has an opinion on the quality of the effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

(won't embed it cuz of the rule 13 limitations)

To play along, my best answer would be " Well, this God-being has needs like other life forms, and we (our existence) serves some of those needs. “

Long tangential divergence below---warning!

But, yeah, a lot of it all gods/religions to date/fables/tales etc) still makes much more sense to me if you figure it all as man (no women allowed! :evilg:) making things up the best he can (and doing yeoman work over time to hone it) to give himself powerfully desired meanings and answers.

Here, from the get-go, there’s the idea that any reasonable definition of some supreme, omnipotent, omniscient etc. entity would seemingly (to me ) have no needs to be met or desires to satisfy. Simply existing would seemingly be all such an entity would require. Obviously people can say otherwise, I'm just expressing what makes either more, or less, sense to me.

And apparently, this being who had the need/desire, was also willing to set the whole enchilada up in quite bizarre fashions given the chosen lay-out (back to Carlin :pfft:). I mean what’s with the whole "everything has to eat/consume the other things" dealio? And what’s this stuff about our little animal friends don’t get souls but all the humans do? :mad:

Even when I follow the explainers' (no relation to “deciders" ) more inventive contortions and try to spin my head like a dammed dreidel to manage all the obvious nonsense, it still ends up not working for me.

Having such a being of such abilities and claimed characteristics “needing” to create a "pastime" with not only such convoluted “organization”, but with so much bizarrely complex dynamics (and other puzzling operational areas) just doesn’t get past my most fundamental core credibility check depsite any attempts I (or others) make to counter my thoughts by checking for "human arrogance in the face of god" or just normal arrogance in a more secular manner.

But I can easily envision an obvious human developmental path, and obvious human needs and desires leading to such beliefs. And I can understand the very human folks who will accept explanations others find lacking that are helpful, or even needed, for their most important beliefs to make sense to them in its implementation---with different levels of such needs for different folks.

I.E. some are quite satisfied keeping it simple--as in simple faith with simple expression of “explanations” of “how it works.“ Others experience a need to study it for years in great intricacy, and I'd say "beyond intricate" is what it has become--see “middle knowledge” and the vast diversity of complexity that now is part-n-parcel of what once was often framed as “Jesus’ simple message.“ This increased sophistication of structure seems well-designed to satisfy a need/motive/drive to explain "faith" in great intricacy.

And I think there’s still a lot of good in all that for society as a whole.

BTW, I prefer the simple message.

But I do choose to believe (even hope ) that while I can’t buy the Christian story in toto, or that of Islam, Judaism, etc., and I see the HUGE print of the grubby fingers of man all over everything in those Holy Books (and there‘s the good stuff men have to offer too--but of course the women are out in the cold, again ), there may be something "out there" like an entity that we’d perceive as some god-being. Of course, even if the being is not "all that" (see earlier description), it would be cool if the being was invested in us in some benign manner. I have no inherent aversion to a super "extra" or "uber-grand" parent figure on our side. :cool:

And I can hope that all the many parts of this “religious stuff” that seems so obviously “wrong” to me is really just the noise of men (believers of whatever religion they hold as The One) who tell me they know how it is because they’ve been heard the word, seen the light, or become one with the force.

Or that my "issues" are all just noises of mine in my head and someday they’ll quiet and the light will come on and it will all make sense. That it hasn't to date is certainly not due to lack of involvement or effort on my end.

<I am hiding for a bit from my share of group-hosting duties at a big BBQ in the park I live in the corner of :evilg:> :evilg:>

[robotfire]

So, like I said before...he created us because he wanted to?

I don't mean to mormon up the thread, but here's our answer on that in the Pearl of Great Price (Moses 1:39): "For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." Joseph B. Wirthlin explains what "immortality" and "eternal life" are here: http://www.lds.org/new-era/2006/11/what-is-the-difference-between-immortality-and-eternal-life?lang=eng

[SWFLSkins]

I don't know, we certainly haven't helped the planet.

That's why I don't believe God exists. Too much strife.

Strife is Life, freewill and all. IF this were Heaven it would be paradise with no discord and all the glory that the Lord offers. Earthly living is what you make it.

[Jumbo]

I just made the most killer custom bean/cheese dip ever. Have to put up the recipe later.

[alexey]

But I do choose to believe (even hope ) that while I can’t buy the Christian story in toto, or that of Islam, Judaism, etc., and I see the HUGE print of the grubby fingers of man all over everything in those Holy Books (and there‘s the good stuff men have to offer too--but of course the women are out in the cold, again ), there may be something "out there" like an entity that we’d perceive as some god-being. Of course, even if the being is not "all that" (see earlier description), it would be cool if the being was invested in us in some benign manner. I have no inherent aversion to a super "extra" or "uber-grand" parent figure on our side.

I think it would be awesome if we were in a world simulated by higher beings (which, some say, is more likely to be the case then not), and dying was not real.

[Koolblue13]

I would guess the need of a higher being to want lesser beings around, would only satisfy some sense of vanity, no higher being would possess.

It makes a lot more sense to figure a lesser being would create a higher being, to satisfy that same sense of vanity.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I would guess the need of a higher being to want lesser beings around, would only satisfy some sense of vanity, no higher being would possess.

Which is why scripture says that it was simply by God's grace that he created humanity, God has no need to fulfill a sense of vanity. People create all the time for no other reason than the intrinsic nature of creating, yet you automatically assume that humanity is a result of vanity.

[Koolblue13]

Which is why scripture says that it was simply by God's grace that he created humanity, God has no need to fulfill a sense of vanity. People create all the time for no other reason than the intrinsic nature of creating, yet you automatically assume that humanity is a result of vanity.

So, by his good graces, he created a life form that would destroy his planet, enslave and kill each other and every other living thing on it, poison the air and water and allow pain and suffering in every other single living thing from plant to animal to people themselves all for the hell of it and then blame all those actions on free will? Riiiiiight. I find that tripe impossible to swallow.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So, by his good graces, he created a life form that would destroy his planet, enslave and kill each other and every other living thing on it, poison the air and water and allow pain and suffering in every other single living thing from plant to animal to people themselves all for the hell of it and then blame all those actions on free will? Riiiiiight. I find that tripe impossible to swallow.

Need some help kicking the crap out of that strawman?

[rumpshakers]

King James Version

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

God gave man a mind (spirit), so that he could know God.

God gave man a heart (emotions), so that he could love God.

God gave man a will (freedom of choice), so that he could obey God.

Yes, the human body is an incredible wonder! Yet was it the body that God created in His own image? No! This cannot be, because God is spirit. God did not create the physical form of man in His own image. What then does the Scripture mean when it tells us that "God created man in His own image?" It means that God created the soul of man in His image.

We already observed that when God first created the body of man from the dust of the earth, it was without life. It was only a corpse. Why did God first create the body of man, before He put the soul in it? Why did God, who is all powerful, not create man in one simple step, as He had done with all the other creatures? Perhaps God did it in this way to teach us that man, in himself, has no power over life. Man cannot give himself life and man cannot create anything that lives. God is the Lord of Life, and in Him alone can life be found. Life does not come from man; it is a gift from God! The Scripture says, "The Lord God…breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." The body that God had created began to live. Why was it alive? Because God, the Lord of Life, gave it a soul! God breathed His life into the corpse. The life that was in God, was now in man. Thus, man became a living being.

IMO

[AsburySkinsFan]

King James Version

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

God gave man a mind (spirit), so that he could know God.

God gave man a heart (emotions), so that he could love God.

God gave man a will (freedom of choice), so that he could obey God.

Yes, the human body is an incredible wonder! Yet was it the body that God created in His own image? No! This cannot be, because God is spirit. God did not create the physical form of man in His own image. What then does the Scripture mean when it tells us that "God created man in His own image?" It means that God created the soul of man in His image.

We already observed that when God first created the body of man from the dust of the earth, it was without life. It was only a corpse. Why did God first create the body of man, before He put the soul in it? Why did God, who is all powerful, not create man in one simple step, as He had done with all the other creatures? Perhaps God did it in this way to teach us that man, in himself, has no power over life. Man cannot give himself life and man cannot create anything that lives. God is the Lord of Life, and in Him alone can life be found. Life does not come from man; it is a gift from God! The Scripture says, "The Lord God…breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." The body that God had created began to live. Why was it alive? Because God, the Lord of Life, gave it a soul! God breathed His life into the corpse. The life that was in God, was now in man. Thus, man became a living being.

IMO

That's all very well and good, but it does not answer the question as to WHY God created humanity.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I gotta catch up on all the new posts lol ...

---------- Post added August-11th-2012 at 03:01 PM ----------

Assuming that God exists and that he created this Universe, I think the best explanation is curiosity. He was curious how this whole thing is going to turn out.

How stars and planets will form, how life will appear and where, how evolution will take place, what kind of creatures will appear, how intelligence will arise, what these intelligent beings will do to each other, what kind of belief systems they will invent, and how quickly they will realize that the main thing is to simpy be nice to each other, get along, seek knowledge, live sustainably, and cause as little harm to other sentiment beings as possible.

This does not work with an all-knowing God because an all-knowing God would know how everything will turn out without having to create stuff. A loving God doing this, from some perspectives, is also unlikely because of all the suffering involved in running the "experiment".

1) Is there a difference between "knowing" something intellectually and experiencing it, though?

2) You assume that God views the "suffering" of the world in the exact same light as we humans do...

[SWFLSkins]

I just made the most killer custom bean/cheese dip ever. Have to put up the recipe later.

And as we farted, God laughed loudly.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think free agency is being overlooked by many in this thread. He created us to be able to make our own choices in life. In order to make the right choices there must be the option of the wrong (imperfect) choice. Any imperfections he created were intentional so that we could choose them if we wanted.

That's another interesting perspective...why would God want us to be able to make our own choices and give us free will? What was His goal/intent in doing so?

Another question (for anyone): If someone is all-knowing, is it possible for them to have free will?

---------- Post added August-11th-2012 at 03:15 PM ----------

Tons of "imperfections" seem random, unnecessarily cruel, and not having much to do with free will.

So assuming God does indeed exist and is indeed perfect, why do you think He would allow--or want--these types of experiences to be part of His creation?

---------- Post added August-11th-2012 at 03:16 PM ----------

Many good and interesting points in this thread and I agree with B.A.M.F. on the whole choice options for us.

I honestly believe if we follow his word, live a good/helpful to others life (ect) we go on to the next step. Basically "graduate" on to the next higher plain of existence (heaven). Those who don't "get it" or are too flawed in bad decisions like career criminals, pshycopaths, just bad people in general go elsewhere (hell) away from heaven.

The question needs to be asked, though: why would God give us free will, then punish us when we use it? lol...

[Jumbo]

And as we farted, God laughed loudly.

Know how to make God laugh? Tell Him about your farts.

[NavyDave]

Simple question, even if the answer may not be: if we assume that God does indeed exist, why did he create us?

He didn't create the US, our founding Fathers did.

As far as humans, I was created to be a blessing onto the world as well as a gift to mankind, normal and otherwise.

Do you believe that we benefited from perfect coincidences and accidents, thus there is no way there is similar life elsewhere in the Cosmos?

[SWFLSkins]

Know how to make God laugh? Tell Him about your farts.

So this one time God, I made this bean/cheese deep that I got off the internet, I ate it while I was watching this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkp7f8IxJNU&feature=player_detailpage

I happen to think God has a sense of humor, I mean we are all pretty funny sometimes. And laughing feels best.

[Win4us]

The question needs to be asked, though: why would God give us free will, then punish us when we use it? lol...

It's a helluva question you ask, def one that makes ya go hmmm, lol.

My best guess would be that it's all part of the process. Basically he's giving everyone the choice to make whatever decision we want, yet nudges us towards what his template of what a good human is. More less human kind is a big experiment maybe. So a reward of heaven to those who follow his command verses punishment in hell to those who don't.

On another note, i'd have to ask one of the more bible knowledgable posters here but isn't there a verse in Revelations that says the Book of Life is already written? For some reason it seems like it said that. If so i suppose maybe all of our "choices" are already made and our fate could already be layed out, and we're living in a re-run. If not, disregard this last section, lol.

[illone]

Addiction to people watching.

[Burgold]

After an eternity of being perfect... God was really curious what it would feel like to make a mistake. And thus man was invented.

[AsburySkinsFan]

After an eternity of being perfect... God was really curious what it would feel like to make a mistake. And thus man was invented.

Now that sounds like a rabbi! Love it!

[PerryMason]

Know how to make God laugh? Tell Him about your farts.

There was a local band that had a lyric that I always thought rang true....."And I can't shake this feeling that man thinks and God laughs" Which to me is so true considering that an infinite being is watching finite man do his best to completely figure Him out.

[SWFLSkins]

After an eternity of being perfect... God was really curious what it would feel like to make a mistake. And thus man was invented.

Makes sense, being perfect would be pretty boring so why not get a good laugh out of being the all knowing whatnot/

[Thinking Skins]

To prove he was (is) better than the other gods.