alexey Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Per Genesis 22:1-19, God commands Abraham to sacrifice his son in the land of Moriah. Abraham proceeded to do as he was commanded - he went to the land of Moriah, built an altar, and attempted to slay his son. Did Abraham do the right thing? http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen.%2022:1-19;&version=KJV; 22 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. 3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. 4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. 5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. 11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen. 15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 ... You can participate if you like. I want to know what people think and I am not breaking any rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yes. Because if he didn't, Jews and Christians might still believe in human sacrifice. You do realize that is the point of this story - that the God of Abraham would not demand human sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yes. Because if he didn't' date=' Jews and Christians might still believe in human sacrifice.You do realize that is the point of this story - that the God of Abraham would not demand human sacrifices.[/quote'] I understand the point of the story. I just don't think it was the right thing to do. I would not attempt to sacrifice my children even if God commanded me to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. And here we are today, fighting among us all over the three Abrahamic religions. ---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 03:55 PM ---------- I understand the point of the story.I just don't think it was the right thing to do. I would not attempt to sacrifice my children even if God commanded me to do it. That's why it's not called Alexeyic religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I just don't think it was the right thing to do. I would not attempt to sacrifice my children even if God commanded me to do it. Well....I guess you won't be the patriarch of a major world religion then. ---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 02:56 PM ---------- That's why it's not called Alexeyic religions. That's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 And here we are today, fighting among us all over the three Abrahamic religions. It could have been worse, you know. We could all be still doing human sacrifices if Abraham said something like "I am not doing it. Human sacrifice is wrong." ---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 03:57 PM ---------- Well....I guess you won't be the patriarch of a major world religion then. That's what it takes? Dangit! Well if I play my cards right maybe I can still get those 72 virgins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It could have been worse, you know. We could all be still doing human sacrifices if Abraham said something like "I am not doing it. Human sacrifice is wrong." Nah. God would have blown him up and made someone named Mickey the patriarch. I like to think that God tried this trick with a few dudes before Abraham went along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 He killed all those vampires in that movie, so he did the right thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This is a loaded question. The correct response is that Abraham was correct to follow God's request. God never intended for Abraham to kill his son. It was a test of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I saw the partial thread title from the main screen and knew who the OP was. And while I fully realize that the best way to ensure the demise of these threads is to leave well enough alone, that's a skill I've yet to learn. God did several things in this story. 1) He had Abraham prove the full depths of his faith, and the lengths he was willing to go to, to carry it forward. 2) I believe He also forshadowed the giving of His own Son, and the extent of His love for us. (Obviously, John 3:16.) That's the God we Christians believe in, one whose love is so incomprehensible that he would even give his Son for us. Ponder that, just for a moment, parents. I can't even fathom it. 3) He made sure alexey would have something to do on July 10, 2012. *edit* Doh! Answer the question, hog...lol. Yes, I do believe he did the right thing. I believe that a loving God has a purpose for everything he does or doesn not do. And while I may not understand everything He may ask of me in my lifetime, I believe that everything does have a higher purpose. I will say, though, that I am NOT the man that Abraham was. I wouldn't be physically able to make the same choice. And I would hope for His mercy in understanding my VERY human limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 This is a loaded question. The correct response is that Abraham was correct to follow God's request. God never intended for Abraham to kill his son. It was a test of faith. That's exactly the question... The question is about whether it is right to do what God commands when he commands us to do bad things. God may have a bigger plan in mind and all, but Abraham had to make a choice based on what he knew. Abraham chose to proceed with the sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I myself try never to judge the ignorant, primitive screwheads of 3 millenia ago by the same standards that I apply to modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That's exactly the question... The question is about whether it is right to do what God commands when he commands us to do bad things. You would have been so smoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Did Abraham do the right thing? What, you don't think Lincoln should have killed those vampires? I think he did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It could have been worse, you know. We could all be still doing human sacrifices if Abraham said something like "I am not doing it. Human sacrifice is wrong."---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 03:57 PM ---------- That's what it takes? Dangit! Well if I play my cards right maybe I can still get those 72 virgins. aaand your NSA file just got a little thicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I saw the partial thread title from the main screen and knew who the OP was. And while I fully realize that the best way to ensure the demise of these threads is to leave well enough alone, that's a skill I've yet to learn.God did several things in this story. 1) He had Abraham prove the full depths of his faith, and the lengths he was willing to go to, to carry it forward. 2) I believe He also forshadowed the giving of His own Son, and the extent of His love for us. (Obviously, John 3:16.) That's the God we Christians believe in, one whose love is so incomprehensible that he would even give his Son for us. Ponder that, just for a moment, parents. I can't even fathom it. 3) He made sure alexey would have something to do on July 10, 2012. *edit* Doh! Answer the question, hog...lol. Yes, I do believe he did the right thing. I believe that a loving God has a purpose for everything he does or doesn not do. And while I may not understand everything He may ask of me in my lifetime, I believe that everything does have a higher purpose. I will say, though, that I am NOT the man that Abraham was. I wouldn't be physically able to make the same choice. And I would hope for His mercy in understanding my VERY human limitations. If God asked me to do something like this, I would begin by verifying the authenticity of the message. How do I know whether God is really commanding me to do this? I guess you know my answer - I do not think it is right to do the wrong thing even if I think that God is commanding me to do it. Maybe he will have mercy on me too for refusing to sacrifice my children... he did give me free will and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I myself try never to judge the ignorant, primitive screwheads of 3 millenia ago by the same standards that I apply to modern times. I think that the context is important to consider. In Abraham's time (and the time that early Jews were passing down this story), there were likely many other religions where ritual sacrifice was common, and while it was a difficult and painful command for Abraham to follow, it probably wasn't as crazy as we think of it now. As LKB points out, the significance of the story is that God stopped Abraham, and made clear that He was a loving and merciful God that did not want human sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 And what if Abraham actually loved his son and disobeyed such an order? By choosing to give up his own life to save his sons' life, he would have also admitted the power of a religion he believed in. Self-preservation is second fiddle to self-sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 If God asked me to do something like this, I would begin by verifying the authenticity of the message. How do I know whether God is really commanding me to do this? Brother, I'm right there with you. The moment that I believe God is actually speaking to me verbally, audibly, is going to be immediately followed by the moment that I believe I've gone completely insane. And I certainly wouldn't consider doing ANYTHING radical -- much less the sacrifice of one of my daughters -- until I was ABSOLUTELY sure what was going on. Do I grant that I'd probably need far less "proof" than you? Of course. But I would have to be certain as well. This leads me to a bit of a tangent. I'm fascinated by the concept of "callings," where someone feels personally called by God to pursue a religious vocation, or do charity or mission work. I believe callings are absolutely, unequivocally legitimate. In the overwhelming majority of cases, God doesn't "speak" to the person. (i.e. -- If you're in the same room, you don't wonder where the third voice is coming from.) But I do believe in a very powerful sense of being pulled by our God in a certain direction. How would I feel if someone said they were "called" into a test of faith like this though? I'd think they were nuts. And if they carried it out, I would flip the switch on Old Sparky. Strange, for me, that I believe in people being called to serve. But I don't readily accept that God would test someone in this way now. I'll have to resolve that at a later date. I guess you know my answer - I do not think it is right to do the wrong thing even if I think that God is commanding me to do it. Maybe he will have mercy on me too for refusing to sacrifice my children... he did give me free will and all And I thought about that after I responded. Forgiving my human nature would -- for me -- amount to "forgiving me for making me the way I am." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONTOP Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What if he had gone through with it anyway? Would he still be practicing God's will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I hope ASF will address callings, and the little conondrum in my thinking you just helped me discover, alexey. I never thought I'd say this one of these threads, but thanks. ---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 04:31 PM ---------- What if he had gone through with it anyway? Would he still be practicing God's will? What if God was a split-second late in calling him off? "**** dude! I was just joshin'! I didn't think you'd actually go and DO some **** like that, dumb***!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You can participate if you like. I want to know what people think and I am not breaking any rules. you are not breaking any rules... but you HAVE completely revealed yourself to be a fundementalist zealot, apparently with the burning need to constantly evangelize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Depends on what the kid did? I mean, maybe a butt whooping would have been better. Not sure a burning was in order. Issac must have done something REAL bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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