Yahoo/AP: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

[Baculus]

Between the ID laws and the voter purges, the GOP is doing all they can to tilt the elections in their favor. It's unconscionable, but the Republicans somehow feel fundamentally empowered to do this.

Sadly enough, this isn't the first time they have done this, such as in the 2000 election, which was decided by hundreds of votes, where thousands of mostly Democratic voting legal Florida voters, were purged by Republican Sec. of State Katherine Harris. And here we are, in over a decade later, and they are still doing it, while accusing the Democrats of actually perpetuating fraud. It's incredible.

Does the GOP have any moral center at all?

Some conservatives have griped that women and students shouldn't be able to vote since they tend to cast their ballots for the Democrats, while others have said that only property owners should have voting rights since poor folks, those "leeches on society," have no skin in the game. But since conservatives have said over and over again that the US is not a democracy -- all republics don't popularly elect their leaders, as evident by China -- it's obvious that they'd prefer if the "producers," the monied elites which are worshiped on the Right as our betters, should choose our ruling class.

We are practically at that point, anyway, especially after the Citizens United ruling.

This isn't some hyperbole, but this is the sort of stuff they actually say. So, as citizens, what are we going to do? What can we do?

[Thiebear]

I think the NYtimes disagrees with that Florida comment: And giving correct ID to 70% of the Wisconsin students and or 36% of people in Georgia over 75yrs old.

It doesn't have to be this one, just like it didn't have to be the last one 4 years ago. It can be for 2016.

[Kilmer17]

I've got a situation that kind of touches on this thread. And it's not worth starting a new one, IMO.

Got a phone call the other day. Phone number I've never seen before. I pick up, and I'm on hold (robo dialer.) (I'm expecting a telemarketer, because that's the only thing that calls us on the land line, anyway. So I'm already irritated.)

After a while, the person who phoned me decides that I've waited long enough, and he's willing to speak to me now.

Person: Can I speak to <My brother's name>:?

Me: He doesn't live here.

Person: <click>

And then, as I often do when I'm feeling pissed at telemarketers, I go to Google, and I look up the phone number of the telemarketer who called me. (Or rather, my brother.)

The Republican Party of Florida.

Now, I'm absolutely, 100% certain that the Republican Party of Florida isn't calling my brother because they think my brother will make a donation to them, or attend one of their rallys, or vote for one of their candidates.

My brother, in many ways, is what the GOP Partisans think Democrats are like. My brother probably believes that George Bush blew up the Pentagon. My brother joins the Sierra Club, the ACLU, Amnesty International, and probably Save The Whales.

My brother doesn't live here, because my brother met a Canadian woman online, and moved to Canada, and married her. He's been there for like 10 years.

He's still a US Citizen. (Although he's applied for, and received, permanent resident status in Canada, he has not applied for citizenship. He says, because to apply for citizenship, he'd have to give up his US citizenship. And he doesn't want to do that.)

I know that my brother has been voting absentee, since he moved to Canada. (Every time I go to vote, they look my name up in the book. And right next to my name, is his name, with "Voted Absentee" printed next to his name.)

In short, I can only see one reason why the Republican Party of Florida is phoning here, and asking to speak to my brother. It's because they know he's a Democrat, who votes absentee, and they're fishing for a reason to deny his vote. (Either before or after he votes.)

----------

I think it might be an interesting discussion. Should my brother be allowed to vote, absentee?

He hasn't lived here for like 10 years.

OTOH, if he'd been, say, in the military, or working on an oil rig, or managing Disney Shanghai, . . . If he'd been out of the country for 10 years because his job sent him out there, then it seems to me that the fact that he hasn't lived here shouldn't disqualify him from voting, anywhere in America.

Should it?

I'm not really certain that I want my brother to vote. I have a really low opinion of him, for lots of reasons I won't go into.

But I'm not sure that I want him disenfranchised simply because he's out of the country for a while, either.

Thought it might be good for discussion.

How could anyone think that in his particular case, he SHOULD be allowed to vote? In fact, why would he WANT to?

Is he still paying taxes in Florida? Own a home? Is there anything tying him to the state and the US?

[Bang]

It is the land of his birth.

On one hand I see where Kilmer is coming from, but at the same time, thinking of emigrating north myself in a few years, the idea of giving up citizenry is like giving up your mom.

~BAng

[Kilmer17]

It is the land of his birth.

On one hand I see where Kilmer is coming from, but at the same time, thinking of emigrating north myself in a few years, the idea of giving up citizenry is like giving up your mom.

~BAng

I was born in VA, should I still get to vote in that state even though I live in FLA?

[Bang]

If you maintain citizenship of the state, why not?

~Bang

[frostyj]

I was born in VA, should I still get to vote in that state even though I live in FLA?

State residence is a bit different than a countries citizenship. As long as you are a citizen of a country you have every right to vote in that countries elections.

Well, at least in the US, can't speak for other countries.

[Duckus]

Former FL. GOP Chairman rips apart GOP voter suppression strategies.

In 20-30 years I we will look back at this time and shake our heads in disbelief that in 2012 there were STILL organized efforts to suppress voter participation. Disgraceful.

The former Florida GOP Chairman said, “There’s no doubt that what the Republican led legislature in Florida and Governor Scott are trying to do is make sure the Republican party has an advantage in this upcoming election by reducing early voting and putting roadblocks up for potential voters, Latinos, African Americans to register and then to exercise their right to vote. There’s no doubt. I was in the room. It’s part of the strategy.”

...

“It’s very sad what’s going on in the Republican party. It’s very sad the Republicans Party doesn’t want to win votes by talking about what it stands for. It wants to ensure that some people can’t get to the polls, can’t register to vote. Political strategists for the GOP can’t control what voters do in the voting booth but it can certainly try and control them ever getting to the voting booth and that’s what happened in Florida,” said former Republican Party Chair Greer in a stunning and revealing interview regarding Florida’s new voter ID laws.

When Sharpton asked Greer if he was in the room for strategic discussions regarding how Republicans could avoid a repeat of President Obama’s 2008 victory, Greer responded, “Absolutely.”

“In three and a half years as Chairman in Florida, I never had one meeting where voter fraud was discussed as a real issue effecting elections. Never one time,” Greer told Sharpton.

“It’s simply been created as a marketing tool here in Florida for the right wing that is running the state government now to convince voters that what they’re doing is right. It’s a marketing tool. That’s clearly what it is. There’s no validity to it. We never had issues with it. The main purpose behind it is to make sure that what happened in 2008 never happens again,” Greer bluntly said to Sharpton.

Read the full article - http://politic365.com/2012/08/10/fmr-florida-republican-party-chair-we-sought-to-suppress-black-and-latino-voters/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fmr-florida-republican-party-chair-we-sought-to-suppress-black-and-latino-voters

[mistertim]

Former FL. GOP Chairman rips apart GOP voter suppression strategies.

In 20-30 years I we will look back at this time and shake our heads in disbelief that in 2012 there were STILL organized efforts to suppress voter participation. Disgraceful.

Read the full article - http://politic365.com/2012/08/10/fmr-florida-republican-party-chair-we-sought-to-suppress-black-and-latino-voters/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fmr-florida-republican-party-chair-we-sought-to-suppress-black-and-latino-voters

This will be immediately dismissed by the GOP because of the charges Greer is facing.

[Duckus]

This will be immediately dismissed by the GOP because of the charges Greer is facing.

And honestly, his credibility should be questioned. His quotes are not some smoking gun - it is just more in a mountain of evidence that suggests the GOP is systemically attempting to suppress voters across the country.

[mistertim]

And honestly, his credibility should be questioned. His quotes are not some smoking gun - it is just more in a mountain of evidence that suggests the GOP is systemically attempting to suppress voters across the country.

Oh I completely agree. Just because someone uses a genetic fallacy doesn't automatically mean that they have no point. Anyway, I do think you're right about the evidence piling up, and it has been for years. I'm inclined to think there is quite likely at least some truth in what he is saying, even if him coming out about it has to do with having an ax to grind.

[Predicto]

Oh I completely agree. Just because someone uses a genetic fallacy doesn't automatically mean that they have no point. Anyway, I do think you're right about the evidence piling up, and it has been for years. I'm inclined to think there is quite likely at least some truth in what he is saying, even if him coming out about it has to do with having an ax to grind.

That's the only time stuff like this usually comes out - when you have an axe to grind. At other times, your own career needs and loyalties lead you to keep silent and go along with things.

Other recent examples: Former Senators Arlen Specter and Bob Bennett.

[Hersh]

I don't get how Republicans can be proud of these suppression tactics. This stuff is completely anti-American.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/201208052259/NEWS0106/308050053

Extended hours on nights and weekends that made it easier for nearly 9,000 voters to cast early ballots in the 2008 presidential race at the Hamilton County Board of Elections may not be repeated this year because of Republican opposition.

Across Ohio, that is part of a developing pattern in which extra pre-election voting hours may be denied to voters in large urban counties – most of which traditionally vote Democratic – even as extended hours will be available in some smaller counties with a strong Republican slant.

More at link

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I don't get how Republicans can be proud of these suppression tactics. This stuff is completely anti-American.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/201208052259/NEWS0106/308050053

More at link

This can't be true...the GOP would never do anything to disenfranchise anyone.....

[skinsmarydu]

Rachel Maddow brought up the Ohio early voting issue the other night, and we were in absolute shock at first. Then, not so much as we know the right will play dirty to get what they want, versus a true democratic process...voter suppression is their only hope, especially since FL just went to Obama with the Ryan pick.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Rachel Maddow brought up the Ohio early voting issue the other night, and we were in absolute shock at first. Then, not so much as we know the right will play dirty to get what they want, versus a true democratic process...voter suppression is their only hope, especially since FL just went to Obama with the Ryan pick.

I find it hilarious that some folk genuinely think this is about "voter fraud".

[Bang]

I don't get how Republicans can be proud of these suppression tactics. This stuff is completely anti-American.

Simple.

They don't care.

They've been convinced by their puppeteers that every single thing the left does is wrong. Every person who has a "D" after their names are actively conspiring to destroy the country. The propagandists have been at it for a long time, and they're shameless. they have no respect for the intellect of their base, and their base gives them no reason to change. Anything goes, and whatever it takes to win is completely acceptable, because they've been conditioned to be terrified of what may happen if their precious GOP doesn't win. And it's no wonder, what with death panels, nazi imagery, socialism, communist flags etc being directed toward their enemies, that their base is frightened. fear and anger are the two easiest emotions to create and manipulate... and your typical GOPer is angry and scared.

As a result, the base stupidly nods along with all of this, or attempts to misdirect and pretend that isn't what is happening, or they laugh like idiots because "it's fun watchin' lib'ruls' git all mad".. even though what people are mad about is just the sort of tactics that as you say, are completely un-American and subvert the Constitution they claim to love and know so much about.

By hook or by crook, nevermind the country. They simply couldn't care less. They're at war, and in war, all's fair.

~Bang

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Click on the link to read the rest.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed

New database of US voter fraud finds no evidence that photo ID laws are needed

A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.

In an exhaustive public records search, News21 reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation.

Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.

“Voter fraud at the polls is an insignificant aspect of American elections,” said elections expert David Schultz, professor of public policy at Hamline University School of Business in St. Paul, Minn.

“There is absolutely no evidence," Schultz said, that voter impersonation fraud "has affected the outcome of any election in the United States, at least any recent election in the United States."

[doctorshockalu]

Simple.

They don't care.

They've been convinced by their puppeteers that every single thing the left does is wrong. Every person who has a "D" after their names are actively conspiring to destroy the country. The propagandists have been at it for a long time, and they're shameless. they have no respect for the intellect of their base, and their base gives them no reason to change. Anything goes, and whatever it takes to win is completely acceptable, because they've been conditioned to be terrified of what may happen if their precious GOP doesn't win. And it's no wonder, what with death panels, nazi imagery, socialism, communist flags etc being directed toward their enemies, that their base is frightened. fear and anger are the two easiest emotions to create and manipulate... and your typical GOPer is angry and scared.

As a result, the base stupidly nods along with all of this, or attempts to misdirect and pretend that isn't what is happening, or they laugh like idiots because "it's fun watchin' lib'ruls' git all mad".. even though what people are mad about is just the sort of tactics that as you say, are completely un-American and subvert the Constitution they claim to love and know so much about.

By hook or by crook, nevermind the country. They simply couldn't care less. They're at war, and in war, all's fair.

~Bang

Are you saying all politicians are like this or just all republicans?

If they only used these tactics why have they not won every election?

Seems like the democrats do the same manipulations just with other avenues. Republicans are dumb, heartless, dumb religious freaks, war Mongers, racist, etc...

[Bang]

Are you saying all politicians are like this or just all republicans?

If they only used these tactics why have they not won every election?

Seems like the democrats do the same manipulations just with other avenues. Republicans are dumb, heartless, dumb religious freaks, war Mongers, racist, etc...

Oh you're right. Here's a 340 post thread that is not full of republicans arguing for ID laws that study after study say overwelmingly are uneccessary to combat a problem that does not exist.

The PA. republican leader says flat out "these laws will deliver a win in PA to Mitt Romney", and I can just see all the republicans lining up to say "NO! that's Wrong! our elections aren't supposed to work like this!"

Do they step up and say "No that is wrong, that quote is taken out of context" when they happily run up and down the aisles screaming "you didn't build that!"

no, they enjoy it... they've got a thousand new idiot-memes they love to use all about Obama saying "you didn't uild that". and any half-informed person knows the quote is completely taken out of context, and they are happy for the chance to be manipulated.

Two weeks ago during the Chick Fil A flap republicans tried to tell us that it was wrong to boycott, that somehow free speech was attacked, and that people speaking through their money in the free market was WRONG.

That is like Plank Number ONE in the conservative ideology, and two weeks ago when their media overlords told them the narrative they p[icked up the call and repeated it... even though it was

A/ not a free speech issue, and any person who ever graduated high school should know that

and B/ went against everything republicans are supposed to espouse.

the GOP currently believes "win at all costs". They've proven it with action after actin after action. They prove it through lie afterr lie after lie "They'll kill your gramma! death panels! Kenyan! socialism!"

all of these lies have been totally shot down by reality, and your typical GOPer just doesn't care.

By hook or by crook. Win at ALL COSTS. Subvert the constitution they claim to love, lie through their teeth when they know they are lying, and they also know everyone else knows they are lying (Sociopathy on a grand scale)...

and of course you'll say "seems o me the democratsblah blah blah"... which has been the standard response the last two years as the GOP slips further and further away from American values.

and it's amusing you say it in a thread with 340 posts devoted to argung about these laws that subvert our Constitution and sacred process.

Here. Instead of arguing with me, argue with PA republican leader Mike Turzai.

He knows what's going on, and he happily admits it to applause. He's proud of it, and so is his audience.

"Voter ID, which will hand Romney the state of Pa. .. done."("We've subverted the process")

clapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclap

Why didn't he say "voter ID,,, which will make sure our elections are fair by cleaning up the voter rolls"?

Why didn't he say "Voter ID, which will insure Pennsylvania citizens have fair elections"?

Why didn't he say "Voter ID, which will make sure no one can vote illegally"?

Why didn't he say anything BUT what he said?

He didn't ... he said "this will hand our boy the state".

Not his policies will win over the voters of the state.. Not his ideas appealing to voters.

But these laws that will suppress votes under the guise of fixing a problem that has been PROVEN to not exist.

How is there any argument here?

~Bang

[wysknz1]

Here in Wyoming we now have to provide one of three a birth certificate (not a copy) a SS card, passport, and local proof of residency such as checking account form or utility bill with name address etc...need to meet a total of 3 ID requirements. This just to get a drivers license. So really what's wrong with proving who you are to vote for the highest office in the US? And this with a statewide population of 568,158.

[Larry]

Here in Wyoming we now have to provide one of three a birth certificate (not a copy) a SS card, passport, and local proof of residency such as checking account form or utility bill with name address etc...need to meet a total of 3 ID requirements. This just to get a drivers license. So really what's wrong with proving who you are to vote for the highest office in the US? And this with a statewide population of 568,158.

What you just did, was to summarize why these ID laws will make it harder for some people to vote.

Demand that people show a card that's difficult for them to get.

[Bang]

A driver's license indicates you have passed a safety course, a drving test, and a written test to be allowed the privelege of driving.

With my car, i can severely maim you, kill you, cost you thousands and thousands of dollars in damage.

I have to be licensed to operate these large and potentially dangerous pieces of machinery, and to do so, I must by law be insured against these things.

Voting is a right, not a privilege. There's no way for m to directly harm anyone by casting my ballot. (Unless I hit them with my car on the way over :silly: )

~Bang

[#BgMase76#]

It's pointless trying to explain something to someone that just doesn't want to have an honest discussion. Let's just throw out the fact that Bush spent millions investigating voter fraud. He came up w/ nothing. Now we have these targeted voter I.D. laws to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

[Burgold]

It's pointless trying to explain something to someone that just doesn't want to have an honest discussion. Let's just throw out the fact that Bush spent millions investigating voter fraud. He came up w/ nothing. Now we have these targeted voter I.D. laws to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Sorry, I really can't believe that you believe this. You think there is no problem? None? Have you looked at the law changes? Have you heard the confessions of high ranking GOP officials saying that the reason they are making these laws is to specifically supress minority votes?

Do you so trust the government and politicians that you think that there is no possibility that a politician could be corrupt or do something shady to maintain or increase his/her power? Are you really saying that our politicians are above reproach and would never do anything to manipulate the system?