Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[skinsmarydu]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-republican-calls-replacing-obamacare-193739366.html

Their hypocrisy is astounding.

[Bliz]

<Chases tail>

 

No I don't want it to list every possible condition, which is my whole point.  You make it for me.  What I said is basically you will get what you pay for, cheap insurance will mean lesser benefits and more expensive things like prescription drugs.  I am simply stating what to expect from Obamacare.

 

You accuse me of calling a guy an idiot because I let him know you can't tell the actual inside costs and whether he is actually saving $1000.  You say hey look at my neat little matrix it tells everything.  Then I point out what that matrix and what the exchange can't show consumers, and you say you want it to show everything?

 

Premiums mean nothing and that grid you keep linking means nothing.  The devil is in the details like what ACTUALLY is covered.  Who cares if you save $1000 in premium is you spend $2000 more on prescription drugs.  Or the new plan doesn't actually cover something you actually need.

 

But thanks for proving my pont.

 

</Chases Tail>

 

That is correct.  But that's not what Americans want Obamacare for.  It's for those that are sick and actually have to use it.  You know COVERAGE -vs INSURANCE.

 

If that's all you were trying to say, you could have made that point MUCH more clear much earlier, instead of suggesting that you were talking about widely applicable systemic problems with Obamacare specifically (as opposed to healthcare purchasing generally).  Something like:

 

"I know this doesn't apply to the vast majority of people, but there is a narrow exception where some people will fall into a gray area of coverage, and might not have coverage for the treatment they think they have coverage for, which will disappoint their expectations of cost savings.  Sucks for that minority, but hopefully they are aware enough of their health condition to investigate their plans and make sure their unique individual needs are taken into consideration.  As for regular healthy people, the matrix should give them a reasonably accurate baseline for estimating costs of different plans in different scenarios (like nothing other than regular doctor checkups vs 1 minor outpatient event vs surgery/hospitalization and hitting the out-of-pocket max, etc.")

Edited October 3, 2013 by Bliz

[JMS]

Why would the middle class join if, like most of the middle class, they currently receive health insurance through their employer either at lower rates  than ACA or, rare cases, fully funded by the employer (like mine used to be)?

 

(1)  Healthcare costs are the #1 cause for bankruptcies in the United States even for people who have insurance...   So closing the loophole which allows insurance companies to underfund or not cover folks is valuable to everybody

 

(2)   You do know their is no such thing as "Obama Care"...   you can't sign up and pay for a government option as most liberals and democrats in congress wanted.   Obama gave up on the public option before negotiations even began in congress.   What we got out of the "affordable care act"  was reform of the existing system.   So any insurance you buy from the healthcare exchanges are private insurance not public insurance.     The reforms in question were first proposed by the conservative Heritage foundation and first proposed by President Nixon in the early 1970's.     They are fundamentally a conservative plan.

 

This is an issue of access—those that cannot get access will get access  to medical care. When you cannot get any medical coverage, high deductibles are still more attractive. 

 

Most Americans who have insurance get their healthcare from the federal government via Medicare or Medicaid.   Basically the poor and elderly.   Those the public companies deem unprofitable.   I think the "affordable care act"  significantly increased the roles of the private insurance companies buy mandating everybody including young healthy folks buy insurance.   Not sure if it increases the public roles nearly as much as it does the private insurance companies.

 

Sure, small business owners have a legit gripe—what business wants to lose even more of their profits to overhead? But it's a democracy and this is what the people want. I have issues with wasteful military spending and on bloated government contractors but it's the way things are in this  country we live in.  

 

No they really don't.   IF you have fewer than 50 employees the Affordable care act doesn't effect you at all.   If you have more than 50 it still doesn't say you have to insure them just give them a voucher which your employees can themselves use to purchase insurance..  which will be subsidized by the federal government for folks who can't afford the rest of the costs of the insurance....    So Wallmart one of the most profitable companies of the last two decades in the country, has to pay an extra 1$ per hour for full time employees...   So their employees can't soak the rest of us for healthcare costs....   

[chipwhich]

If that's all you were trying to say, you could have made that point MUCH more clear much earlier, instead of suggesting that you were talking about widely applicable systemic problems with Obamacare specifically (as opposed to healthcare purchasing generally).  Something like:

 

"I know this doesn't apply to the vast majority of people, but there is a narrow exception where some people will fall into a gray area of coverage, and might not have coverage for the treatment they think they have coverage for, which will disappoint their expectations of cost savings.  Sucks for that minority, but hopefully they are aware enough of their health condition to investigate their plans and make sure their unique individual needs are taken into consideration.  As for regular healthy people, the matrix should give them a reasonably accurate baseline for estimating costs of different plans in different scenarios (like nothing other than regular doctor checkups vs 1 minor outpatient event vs surgery/hospitalization and hitting the out-of-pocket max, etc.")

 

Glad you now "get it".

Insurance -vs- Coverage

 

So yes healthy people who don't use the doctor will now have "insurance" against a catastrophe.

It's the sick people who are the ones I discuss, they have "insurance" but it's the "coverage" that is a concern.  Hope they don't need to use that insurance for good coverage.  And the coverage they get, I hope they enjoy always pulling money out of pocket until their coverage starts.

See what you want is a single payer system, what you got is a system where everyone pays even if they can't afford it.

But I will try and stay optimistic even though my own experience doesn't allow for that. 

[Tulane Skins Fan]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-republican-calls-replacing-obamacare-193739366.html

Their hypocrisy is astounding.

 

Funny.  It really was a conservative plan originally.  

[MEANDWARF]

Will not eat a dinner that the cook will not eat. Therefore why should I take part in a program prepared by politicians even though they themselves will not sign up for.

Just Sayin'

[twa]

Will not eat a dinner that the cook will not eat. Therefore why should I take part in a program prepared by politicians even though they themselves will not sign up for.

Just Sayin'

 

Extortionist

[Larry]

Will not eat a dinner that the cook will not eat. Therefore why should I take part in a program prepared by politicians even though they themselves will not sign up for.

Just Sayin'

 

So, you're saying that Congress should vote to give every American the same health care plan that members of Congress get? 

 

Just sayin'. 

 

I think everybody on Food Stamps should receive the same quality of food as the Senate Dining Room, too. 

Edited October 5, 2013 by Larry

[Heisenberg]

Will not eat a dinner that the cook will not eat. Therefore why should I take part in a program prepared by politicians even though they themselves will not sign up for.

Just Sayin'

 

 

Can you please explain?  Congress isn't exempt from the law so I'm not really sure why this line of thought is so pervasive (actually that's a lie, I know exactly why it's so pervasive)

 

"the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act)."

[twa]

Can you please explain?  Congress isn't exempt from the law so I'm not really sure why this line of thought is so pervasive (actually that's a lie, I know exactly why it's so pervasive)

 

"the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act)."

the law passed and they want exempted from the provision in it addressing them....pretty simple really

[Bliz]

Will not eat a dinner that the cook will not eat. Therefore why should I take part in a program prepared by politicians even though they themselves will not sign up for.

Just Sayin'

the law passed and they want exempted from the provision in it addressing them....pretty simple really

Not exactly that simple. Don't focus on the source. The story of this amendment is well documented

Ironically, if they passed a law tomorrow that said congress would be treated just like everyone else w respect to the aca, congressfolk would be MUCH better treated by the law than they are now

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/john-boehners-plan-c-hurts-congress-hurts-taxpayers-fixes-nothing/

Edited October 5, 2013 by Bliz

[twa]

nothing is simple with govt involved

Charter guides received a message from the National Park Service this week informing them that they are not permitted to take clients fishing in Florida Bay until the feds get back to work. That means that more than 1,100 square miles of prime fishing is off limits between the southern tip of the mainland to the Keys until further notice.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/03/3668028_p2/shutdown-day-3-food-distributor.html#storylink=cpy

can't walk in the open air or fish in the open sea.

[Heisenberg]

Nobody on the planet knows how to derail a thread quite like twa.

[Slateman]

So, you're saying that Congress should vote to give every American the same health care plan that members of Congress get? 

 

Just sayin'. 

 

I think everybody on Food Stamps should receive the same quality of food as the Senate Dining Room, too. 

 

They do. They just have to cook it for themselves.

[twa]

Nobody on the planet knows how to derail a thread quite like twa.

goes back to control....just wait till the govt controls your healthcare and puts things off limits.

[Kindred]

Will not eat a dinner that the cook will not eat. Therefore why should I take part in a program prepared by politicians even though they themselves will not sign up for.

Just Sayin'

Did you miss the story explaining this that was posted earlier?

 

 

John Boehner’s ‘Plan C’ hurts Congress, hurts taxpayers, fixes nothing

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/john-boehners-plan-c-hurts-congress-hurts-taxpayers-fixes-nothing/

[chipwhich]

Ironically, if they passed a law tomorrow that said congress would be treated just like everyone else w respect to the aca, congressfolk would be MUCH better treated by the law than they are now

 

Uh, no.

Government health insurance is better than what is provided by the ACA.

[SJValleySkinz]

Let's say a guy suffering from severe depression and social anxiety clawed himself through junior college and into a 4 year school, on his way to a degree, He has never been able to afford health care and therefor has never taken any medication or received any counceling. Now what if even after all this every day remains a struggle and the guy wants to be able to stand up rather than fighting from his back? What if thanks to being able to afford the medication and counceling he becomes a college grauduate, gets a job and is able to repay the good graces he received by helping the next person, or persons, that is in a situation similar to his. There are enough decent people in this country to make that work.

Edited October 6, 2013 by SJValleySkinz

[Bliz]

 

Ironically, if they passed a law tomorrow that said congress would be treated just like everyone else w respect to the aca, congressfolk would be MUCH better treated by the law than they are now

 

 

 

Uh, no.

Government health insurance is better than what is provided by the ACA.

 

To clarify, by "now" I didn't mean the insurance they have right now, but how they are now treated by the ACA.  If you read that story, the Grassley amendment mandates they purchase on the Exchange.  If they were treated like everyone else, there would be no such requirement, and they could go back to having large employer-provided health plan instead, which would be much better for them.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Bliz

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Uh, no.

Government health insurance is better than what is provided by the ACA.

 

Let's give everyone government health insurance then.  Deal?

[Zguy28]

Just got a notice from my employer, whom I have BC/BS of California through.

 

This excerpt is in the PDF:
 

There are many forces at play in the U.S. health care system that impact costs, but at the forefront is health care reform. Passed in March 2010, the Affordable Care Act (ACA) is ushering in the most significant change in employer-provided benefits in the post-World War II era. 

 

Beginning in 2014, additional ACA provisions take effect that more directly impact the costs and coverage of employer-provided health plans. These include a wide range of plan design changes aimed at standardizing health coverage, new wellness features, compliance-related notices, additional reporting and disclosure requirements, plus new fees and plan costs.
 

The bottom line is that the medical cost trend in the U.S. is continuing to rise, and the new ACA fees are increasing this trend. This new world of health care delivery necessitates change.

 

 

No, the bottom line is that my individual deductibles for the five people in my family are going from $400 annually to $750 annually. I wish I knew how much was because of which thing.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Zguy28

[skinsmarydu]

Just got a notice from my employer, whom I have BC/BS of California through.

 

This excerpt is in the PDF:

 

 

No, the bottom line is that my individual deductibles for the five people in my family are going from $400 annually to $750 annually. I wish I knew how much was because of which thing.

Does your premium change? (Sheer curiosity...not a partisan question, I swear.)

[Zguy28]

Does your premium change? (Sheer curiosity...not a partisan question, I swear.)

I'm not sure yet. Haven't checked, but I'm sure it has. Seems like it has every year. Not that it has much to do directly with my premium, but I remember when my first kid was born in 2001, it cost us almost nothing. The second cost us $600 in 2004. The third was over $1000 in 2006. I'd hate to see now if I had another one.

 

EDIT: It hasn't been released for 2014 yet, but looking back, my premium in 2011 was about $3500, 2012 was $4700 and no change for 2013. Same plan all along.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Zguy28

[twa]

something I haven't heard of...are other states requiring proof of credit scores?

 

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/credit-scores-impacting-new-affordable-care-act-insurance-plans/-/1637132/22341034/-/l0jmq3z/-/index.html

 

Many people signing up for health care in Florida through the Affordable Care Acthave been shocked when they have to give proof of their credit score before they finish the process.

[chipwhich]

Let's give everyone government health insurance then.  Deal?

 

Deal!  Perhaps you miss the premise of all of my posts.

Obamacare isn't any great deal for the uninsured.

Government health insurance is a steal.

 

But enjoy your ACA.  It's gonna really make people happy. 

Does your premium change? (Sheer curiosity...not a partisan question, I swear.)

 

Every company that offers health insurance had a premium increase (typical yearly increase) in ADDITION we had an increase to pay for the exchanges.

So yes premiums are increasing to pay for Obamacare.

EDIT: It hasn't been released for 2014 yet, but looking back, my premium in 2011 was about $3500, 2012 was $4700 and no change for 2013. Same plan all along.

 

Depending on who you work for.....

 

For me, a small business owner my premiums NOW are based on 3 things.

Age average of my employees.

Healthiness of my employees.

Fee to pay for the exchanges.

 

So in theory I could fire all of my old employees and hire young college graduates and have a significant decrease in my premium.

 

You can't really say based on your own individual experience.