Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[chipwhich]

Anybody got any support for this claim I keep seeing, that health care expenses are no longer tax deductible?

(Not that I think it matters, for most of the folks signing up for Obamacare. Since I assume the vast majority of them are in lower tax brackets, probably don;t itemize to begin with, and wouldn't get much back, if they did. But I'm really curious. Mostly because I assume that, if this were true, I would have heard a lot more complaining about it.)

 

Not sure I understand your question.  Health care expenses were never tax deductible with the exception of portions that exceeded a percentage of your income.  (Prior to H.S.A plans).

 

Under the ACA you can use an H.S.A plan to put money away tax free to pay for future healthcare expenses.

Edited October 12, 2013 by chipwhich

[chipwhich]

I don't get health insurance through my work so I have been purchasing it on my own for years now.  I just did the "Premium Estimation Tool" and all 28 plans, including the "catastrophic" plans, are higher than my current premium.  Not looking good for me.

 

Edit: Oh and the Kaiser Family Foundation calculator says I don't qualify for any tax credits.

 

Edit #2: My current plan's deductible is $1,500 in network, $2,500 out of network. These plans are all $5k-6k. I didn't know I had it so good, hope I don't lose my plan.

 

BTW, THIS is what I have been rallying about.

 

A family finally gets health insurance, pays their premium, and when they go to use it they will find out they aren't getting anything covered.  They have to pay out of pocket anyways until they spend $5k-$6K.

Insurance -vs- Coverage

I now get to buy catastrophic insurance but I don't have coverage for when my kid gets the flu and I have to take him to the doctor.

[Larry]

Not sure I understand your question. Health care expenses were never tax deductible with the exception of portions that exceeded a percentage of your income. (Prior to H.S.A plans).

Under the ACA you can use an H.S.A plan to put money away tax free to pay for future healthcare expenses.

Pointing out that there's a difference between "huge out of pocket expenses that aren't tax deductible" and "well, they have to exceed a portion of your income".

Speaking as someone who has filed tax returns for my parents, claiming like $80K a year in tax deductions because of medical expenses, for six years in a row, I'm pretty certain that if medical expenses weren't deductible, before, the IRS would have told me I couldn't do that.

[twa]

He is talking about po folk

add

the HSA made tax free medical spending available to the lower income,a critical change.

Edited October 12, 2013 by twa

[Larry]

BTW, THIS is what I have been rallying about.

A family finally gets health insurance, pays their premium, and when they go to use it they will find out they aren't getting anything covered. They have to pay out of pocket anyways until they spend $5k-$6K.

Yes, we get it. Obamacare sucks because it has a deductible.

(And Medicare sucks, because, for most people, it doesn't).

Y'know what? My current plan has a deductible, too. So does yours.

[chipwhich]

Pointing out that there's a difference between "huge out of pocket expenses that aren't tax deductible" and "well, they have to exceed a portion of your income".

Speaking as someone who has filed tax returns for my parents, claiming like $80K a year in tax deductions because of medical expenses, for six years in a row, I'm pretty certain that if medical expenses weren't deductible, before, the IRS would have told me I couldn't do that.

 

Like I said portions that exceed a percentage of your income have always been tax deductible.

 

As far as I know in 2014 you can deduct expenses that exceed 10% of your income.  I haven't seen where that goes away.

Yes, we get it. Obamacare sucks because it has a deductible.

(And Medicare sucks, because, for most people, it doesn't).

Y'know what? My current plan has a deductible, too. So does yours.

 

Yeah I chose it that way.  Why?  Because it was cheaper to pay someones full deductible and premiums than pay for a traditional plan.  And these high deductible plans are rapidly becoming the norm.

 

And you know what, everyone HATES them.  And it's going to get worse.  I could bore you with specifics but you probably don't want to know.

You can afford your deductible, most of these new uninsured folks can't, but keep on living the dream.

(And Medicare sucks, because, for most people, it doesn't).

 

BTW, I would love a link on this....

My parents aren't too happy with it, and my experience with my grandparents, one in an Alzheimers home weren't to great either.

But tell us about how great it is.

[chipwhich]

Also Larry, if you are deducting $80,000 on your parents return it's due to long term care, which is a totally different issue in the US.  If it's just for medical expenses, then your Medicare really isn't working.

[Larry]

Also Larry, if you are deducting $80,000 on your parents return it's due to long term care, which is a totally different issue in the US. If it's just for medical expenses, then your Medicare really isn't working.

The main expenses were dad's nursing home, and mom's prescriptions. (Everything else was covered by Medicare, and their supplemental).

(And long-term care is medical expenses).

[chipwhich]

The main expenses were dad's nursing home, and mom's prescriptions. (Everything else was covered by Medicare, and their supplemental).

(And long-term care is medical expenses).

 

I didn't say it wasn't a medical expense.

It's nice being rich and being able to afford to get your 35% back of 85K for long term care isn't it.

 

Most "po folk" don't have that luxury and Medicare obviously failed your mom too.

We got a lot to look forward to in retirement don't we?  Hope we are all rich enough to pay what you can.

[chipwhich]

BTW Larry...full disclosure.

 

My grandparents entire estate was wiped out due to long term care for my grandfather who had Alzheimers.  It's great that your parents have the money to pay it.  I hope their estate doesn't get wiped out due to their health issues.

 

I would love to not have to worry about having long term care insurance, health insurance, etc.  Fact is we have to worry about these things.  You and I are living proof.  Most aren't fortunate enough to be able to take care of their family.

 

Medicare insurance is a disaster in terms of keeping families from high costs.  Just as Obamacare.

A single payer system we don't have, just more bills for future generations.

 

The only thing I fear in retirement is health care costs and medical costs and prescription costs.  Everything else is rosy.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/federal-health-exchange-sending-confusing-enrollment-information-to-insurers/2013/10/11/a2f3ce2e-31ec-11e3-9c68-1cf643210300_story.html?hpid=z3

 

Federal health exchange sending confusing enrollment information to insurers

 

The federal health-care exchange that opened a dozen days ago is marred by snags beyond the widely publicized computer gridlock that has thwarted Americans trying to buy a health plan. Even when consumers have been able to sign up, insurers sometimes can’t tell who their new customers are because of a separate set of computer defects.

The problems stem from a feature of the online marketplace’s computer system that is designed to send each insurer a daily report listing people who have just enrolled. According to several insurance industry officials, the reports are sometimes confusing and duplicative. In some cases, they show — correctly or not — that the same person enrolled and canceled several times on a single day.

The ability of consumers to sign up for a health plan, and the ability of the insurers to know who they are covering, is key to the success of the federal law that will for the first time require most Americans to have health insurance starting Jan. 1. The Web site www.healthcare.gov is the main path for millions of Americans in 36 states to purchase new coverage.

 

Edited October 12, 2013 by Gallen5862

[chipwhich]

 

The federal health-care exchange that opened a dozen days ago is marred by snags beyond the widely publicized computer gridlock that has thwarted Americans trying to buy a health plan. Even when consumers have been able to sign up, insurers sometimes can’t tell who their new customers are because of a separate set of computer defects.

 

Wait, according to Bliz, everything would be clear on the exchange websites.  No confusion as to what you are getting.

[twa]

Wait, according to Bliz, everything would be clear on the exchange websites.  No confusion as to what you are getting.

 

You probably have to sign up to see what is in it.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/10/14/will-someone-get-fired-for-obamacare/

 

Will someone get fired for Obamacare?

 

Former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs raised an uncomfortable question Monday during an appearance on MSNBC’s “Now with Alex Wagner”: Is someone going to get fired for the uneven rollout of the Affordable Care Act‘s Oct. 1 rollout?

“When they get it fixed, I hope they fire some people that were in charge of making sure that this thing was supposed to work,” said Gibbs, usually a defender of the Obama administration. “We knew there were going to be glitches, right? But these were glitches that go, quite frankly, way beyond the pale of what should be expected.”

 

Administration officials, who could not be reached immediately for comment, have not identified which officials at Health and Human Services were directly in charge of the new computer enrollment system, or which companies are most involved with fixing it now. Both GCI Federal and Quality Software Services Inc. helped construct the Web site and data hub, respectively.

Senior White House officials have consistently attributed the site’s problems to unanticipated demand, but Gibbs challenged that explanation Monday.

“This was bungled badly,” he said. “This was not a server problem, just too many people came to the Web site, this is a Web site architecture problem. I think it is, again, excruciatingly embarrassing.”

And Gibbs is not the only traditional supporter of the White House criticizing its handling of the Affordable Care Act launch today. Washington Post Wonkblog’s Ezra Klein posted a piece Monday calling the recent rollout “a failure.”

Edited October 14, 2013 by Gallen5862

[Corcaigh]

"Senior White House officials have consistently attributed the site’s problems to unanticipated demand, but Gibbs challenged that explanation Monday." “This was bungled badly,” he said. “This was not a server problem, just too many people came to the Web site, this is a Web site architecture problem. 

 

If the White House is going to try the old chestnut of "unanticipated demand" they should back it up with what they reasonably expected and what occurred. 

 

Word on the street is that the capacity was known to be a likely problem before launch and the hosting provider (CGI Federal, not GCI Federal, as reported in the article) didn't address it.. 

Edited October 14, 2013 by Corcaigh

[TheGoodBits]

Wonder if there are DoS attack issues going on. Seems like a very simple and easy way to make the implementation look bad.

Just speculating. Wouldn't surprise me if its just sheer incompetence on the part of CGI. They manage the Navy's HR system, which my wife reported horror stories about when she worked there.

[Bliz]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/10/14/will-someone-get-fired-for-obamacare/

 

Will someone get fired for Obamacare?

 

Former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs raised an uncomfortable question Monday during an appearance on MSNBC’s “Now with Alex Wagner”: Is someone going to get fired for the uneven rollout of the Affordable Care Act‘s Oct. 1 rollout?

“When they get it fixed, I hope they fire some people that were in charge of making sure that this thing was supposed to work,” said Gibbs, usually a defender of the Obama administration. “We knew there were going to be glitches, right? But these were glitches that go, quite frankly, way beyond the pale of what should be expected.”

 

Administration officials, who could not be reached immediately for comment, have not identified which officials at Health and Human Services were directly in charge of the new computer enrollment system, or which companies are most involved with fixing it now. Both GCI Federal and Quality Software Services Inc. helped construct the Web site and data hub, respectively.

Senior White House officials have consistently attributed the site’s problems to unanticipated demand, but Gibbs challenged that explanation Monday.

“This was bungled badly,” he said. “This was not a server problem, just too many people came to the Web site, this is a Web site architecture problem. I think it is, again, excruciatingly embarrassing.”

And Gibbs is not the only traditional supporter of the White House criticizing its handling of the Affordable Care Act launch today. Washington Post Wonkblog’s Ezra Klein posted a piece Monday calling the recent rollout “a failure.”

 

 

How long does this have to go on before the administration has no choice but to delay the individual mandate by at least 6 months?  You can't have this failure of the website stretch on and on and still impose the mandate on people. 

 

My opinion only, November 1 is the drop dead date.  If the system isn't running smooth and fast for the vast majority of users by that point, you have no choice but to delay.

Which raises an interesting question.  Obama knows this.  He knows there's a point of no return that will force his hand on the delay.  Is he already assuming that he'll have to do that, and holding out for something particularly valuable from Pubs that he can sell the base on?

I don't get health insurance through my work so I have been purchasing it on my own for years now.  I just did the "Premium Estimation Tool" and all 28 plans, including the "catastrophic" plans, are higher than my current premium.  Not looking good for me.

 

Edit: Oh and the Kaiser Family Foundation calculator says I don't qualify for any tax credits.

 

Edit #2: My current plan's deductible is $1,500 in network, $2,500 out of network. These plans are all $5k-6k. I didn't know I had it so good, hope I don't lose my plan.

 

How did you get to those details on the deductibles?  I wasn't able to see anything other than premiums using that tool.  Are you in a state that set up its own exchange, or on the federal?

[CrazyZeb]

How long does this have to go on before the administration has no choice but to delay the individual mandate by at least 6 months?  You can't have this failure of the website stretch on and on and still impose the mandate on people. 

 

My opinion only, November 1 is the drop dead date.  If the system isn't running smooth and fast for the vast majority of users by that point, you have no choice but to delay.

Which raises an interesting question.  Obama knows this.  He knows there's a point of no return that will force his hand on the delay.  Is he already assuming that he'll have to do that, and holding out for something particularly valuable from Pubs that he can sell the base on?

 

How did you get to those details on the deductibles?  I wasn't able to see anything other than premiums using that tool.  Are you in a state that set up its own exchange, or on the federal?

 

I did individual google searches on them, although I couldn't find more details on all of the ones I tried.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.chron.com...?cmpid=opedhprr

 

Congress doesn't need health subsidies

 

In 2009, during debate over the new health care law, legislative language was adopted that very clearly states that, as of Jan. 1, 2014, the only health insurance plans members of Congress and their staff can have are plans "offered through an Exchange" established under Obamacare. The intent behind this effort was to expose members of Congress to the health care experience they imposed on their constituents through the new law.

 

Currently, members of Congress and their staff receive health coverage through a federal program, which is administered by the Office of Personnel Management. Basically, members of Congress and their staffs pick the coverage they prefer from a menu of competing insurance policies and their employer, the federal government, contributes an amount toward the premium in the form of a subsidy.

 

Under Obamacare, the Office of Personnel Management no longer has the authority to provide this premium subsidy. In other words, there is no legal basis for the personnel office to rule that Congress can receive health coverage under its premium plan after Dec. 31.

[Larry]

Pointing out that the article is an editorial written by a Republican Congressman.

Also pointing out that the OPM administers the health care plan for all government employees, and government retirees.

 

Under Obamacare, the Office of Personnel Management no longer has the authority to provide this premium subsidy.

 

 

 

I'm pretty confident that, if Obamacare had ruled that all current and retired federal employees immediately lost their health insurance, I would have heard about it before now. 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There was a great deal of discussion on this issue back a year and a half or so ago.  Maybe longer, I don't remember exactly. 

 

It just never got a lot of attention outside of places like Fox etc.  I know that's a dirty word on this board but it was discussed a while back.  I don't have an answer as to why it wasn't reported more widely. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just got an email from our local Chamber of Commerce (that provides our plans) ... same coverage from last year now has a larger scope of coverage ... but the price is going down! and I quote "small businesses are going to find out they really love Obamacare."

 

This coming from the same group that, 3-4 months ago at a community forum for ACA questions, stated to be ready to see rates go up 30-40% ... (Chambers are also very conservative, traditionally, so it was quite a reversal)

[chipwhich]

Just got an email from our local Chamber of Commerce (that provides our plans) ... same coverage from last year now has a larger scope of coverage ... but the price is going down! and I quote "small businesses are going to find out they really love Obamacare."

 

This coming from the same group that, 3-4 months ago at a community forum for ACA questions, stated to be ready to see rates go up 30-40% ... (Chambers are also very conservative, traditionally, so it was quite a reversal)

 

Your post without context is meaningless.

As a small business owner my insurance increased this year.

 

My insurance went up because of fees to set up Obamacare exchanges, plus average age and health of my employees.

 

My insurance COULD have gone down if the average age of my employees went down and we became younger.

For companies with continuous demographics, insurance went up.

 

Your "small businesses are going to find out they really love Obamacare." is an opinion with no basis.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Yo Chipwich ... chill the **** out ... I'm sorry your rates went up ... my comment did not have any meaning of political persuasion ... I was just relaying ... almost directly quoted ... what the Chamber of Commerce in a very rural, very conservative, very Republican part of the country just sent out. I felt like sharing, mainly because I was surprised at the context and who sent it, that is all.

[chipwhich]

Yo Chipwich ... chill the **** out ... I'm sorry your rates went up ... my comment did not have any meaning of political persuasion ... I was just relaying ... almost directly quoted ... what the Chamber of Commerce in a very rural, very conservative, very Republican part of the country just sent out. I felt like sharing, mainly because I was surprised at the context and who sent it, that is all.

You dip your toe into the political pool, you get the fungus that is in the waters.

 

Glad you shared.

 

I was just sharing too.