Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Do you really believe that the point of Obamacare is "to control people?"  That was the reason for Obama wanting it.  You're not even going to go with a "misguided way to improve access to healthcare and control cost"?  You actually think that Obama is trying to control you?  

[twa]

Do you really believe that the point of Obamacare is "to control people?"  That was the reason for Obama wanting it.  You're not even going to go with a "misguided way to improve access to healthcare and control cost"?  You actually think that Obama is trying to control you?  

I believe the govt is most certainly, healthcare and ins is just one part of it.

 

I think HE is mostly interested in the directing of funds and policy,and has no clue on controlling costs and improving access.

 

misguided is not the word I would use

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Do you really believe that the point of Obamacare is "to control people?"  That was the reason for Obama wanting it.  You're not even going to go with a "misguided way to improve access to healthcare and control cost"?  You actually think that Obama is trying to control you?  

I believe the govt is most certainly, healthcare and ins is just one part of it.

 

I think HE is mostly interested in the directing of funds and policy,and has no clue on controlling costs and improving access.

 

misguided is not the word I would use

 

That's ridiculous.  Honestly, I'd like to call it a whole bunch of things.  But Obama is not trying to have control of your life for the eight years he's in office.  The attempt is to make things better.  Not worse.

[twa]

Better in who's mind?

[twa]

Odd

The Times Falsely Claims That Obamacare Cuts N.Y. Health Premiums By 50 Percent

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/353639/times-falsely-claims-obamacare-cuts-ny-health-premiums-50-percent-avik-roy

In 2010, average per-person monthly premiums in the New York individual market were not “$1,000 or more,” but $357. Even less expensive plans can be found today on ehealthinsurance.com.

[chipwhich]

As an employer, I can tell you that I am paying the price for healthcare for my employees.  My healthcare prices went through the roof.

 

Hopefully one day I can just pay my employee the ehealthinsurance.com price and pocket the rest.  May Obamacare will payoff for me somehow.

[Duckus]

OddThe Times Falsely Claims That Obamacare Cuts N.Y. Health Premiums By 50 Percenthttp://www.nationalreview.com/corner/353639/times-falsely-claims-obamacare-cuts-ny-health-premiums-50-percent-avik-royIn 2010, average per-person monthly premiums in the New York individual market were not “$1,000 or more,” but $357. Even less expensive plans can be found today on ehealthinsurance.com.

Haha. There is an enormous and glaring error in his critique of the NYTs. I will let you find it.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Duckus

[twa]

and the error at the Times?

[Duckus]

and the error at the Times?

Unless I am missig something, which is alway possible , here are my issues:

1) NYC isn't NY. They are different.

2) They miss quote the NYT.

From the NYT:

Beginning in October, individuals in New York City who now pay $1,000 a month or more for coverage will be able to shop for health insurance for as little as $308 monthly

National Review:

In 2010, average per-person monthly premiums in the New York individual market were not “$1,000 or more,” but $357.

NYT is refering to NYC. That $357 average from the National Review is for New York STATE.

The text in quotations from the National Review is not in the NYT article.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Duckus

[aREDSKIN]

 

Do you really believe that the point of Obamacare is "to control people?"  That was the reason for Obama wanting it.  You're not even going to go with a "misguided way to improve access to healthcare and control cost"?  You actually think that Obama is trying to control you?  

I believe the govt is most certainly, healthcare and ins is just one part of it.

 

I think HE is mostly interested in the directing of funds and policy,and has no clue on controlling costs and improving access.

 

misguided is not the word I would use

 

That's ridiculous.  Honestly, I'd like to call it a whole bunch of things.  But Obama is not trying to have control of your life for the eight years he's in office.  The attempt is to make things better.  Not worse.

I'd REALLY be interestd in finding out why you make this claim. Any evidence to support this?? Except for the constitunecy pimping that is.

[Bliz]

Thought this was a very smart take on the anticipated effects of Obamacare (and that this was a more appropriate thread for this article, since everything on the front page right now is about Obamacare as it pertains to the govt shutdown/slimdown/showdown/budgetgate or whatever)

 

The comparison shopping, and ease of purchase, is going to be the first thing that really hits anyone who has ever bought in the individual market. 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2013/10/01/4-ways-new-exchanges-will-radically-alter-health-insurance/
 

Until now, buying health insurance has been a daunting task for most individuals and small businesses. But purchasing health insurance through exchanges will more closely resemble booking a vacation on Expedia or Orbitz. People using this vehicle to enroll will see lots of options, common features among the offerings, and greater transparency around price, quality and consumer ratings.

...

 

1. Exchanges will transform how individuals purchase health insurance
Buying health insurance on the individual market has been confusing. Individuals could search the Internet and shop from multiple carriers and insurance plans. However, with so much variation in plan design and coverage benefits, comparison shopping has been nearly impossible.

 

Once shoppers found the insurance plan they liked, they were then required to submit extensive personal information and undergo medical underwriting. Insurers that spotted pre-existing conditions often denied the applicant’s request for coverage. And whenever people on an existing plan wanted to upgrade, they repeated the entire process and faced being denied expanded coverage.

 

The existing health insurance process might remind shoppers of booking a vacation through a travel agent. Shoppers are presented with few options, little transparency and higher costs (premiums) due to broker fees.

 

Further, insurance companies who sell policies on the individual market often compete by trying to avoid “high-risk” enrollees. Insurance executives understand that a small percentage of patients account for most of the total health care cost. Through their extensive underwriting practices, insurance companies have gotten good at identifying individuals who are likely to need frequent medical care in the future, especially those with chronic disease. By denying coverage to these patients, insurance companies limit their risk, reduce their claims costs and increase their profits. This has made their shareholders very happy.

The ACA, also called “Obamacare,” changes the rules of the game.

 

This legislation requires that insurance companies extend coverage to all Americans, regardless of health status. Furthermore, most individuals who buy coverage through the exchange will be able to select from a relatively common set of benefits and have more transparent access to cost and quality data.

These improvements will change what it takes for health insurers to “win” the game. Rather than focusing on risk avoidance, insurance companies will need to compete at the delivery-system level, where care is provided. If things play out as many hope, the exchanges will dramatically expand insurance coverage. Exchanges may also become the new battleground where care providers compete to offer the best quality, service and price.

2. Exchanges will transform how small-group health insurance is purchased
Small-business owners who choose to cover all of their employees have had to meet a variety of regulatory requirements. Because most small businesses have limited in-house expertise on health benefits, they typically depend on brokers to guide them through the process. The cost of the broker’s service can add 5 to 10 percent to the total cost of the premium. Providing multiple insurance plan options raises the costs even further. That’s why many employees at small businesses are often limited to one plan. Further, if the employer decides to shift coverage from one insurance carrier to another, the employees may not be aware of the changes in benefits until they require care. This can result in individuals having to change physicians based on the company’s available network.

 

The federally mandated small-business exchanges will eliminate many of these issues. Similar to the individual market, these small-business exchanges will offer employees of small businesses a choice. They’ll receive a relatively standardized set of plan options and greater transparency on quality and cost. Most significantly, employers will see an expanded choice of insurance carriers and lower transactional costs, resulting in reduced premiums.

 

3. Exchanges will be a “disruptive innovation”
Similar to what has already happened in travel, retail and finance, once online options are made available, health care will be disrupted. The transformation will happen in stages.

 

Initially, three groups will purchase coverage through the exchanges: those who are currently uninsured, those individuals whose current coverage is not compliant with the requirements of the ACA, and owners of small businesses wanting to streamline the process of providing insurance to their employees. But over time, the advantages of the exchanges as compared to current options will make progressively larger groups of purchasers more interested in using this approach – through either government-sponsored or private exchanges.

 

At first, some of the larger businesses may be reluctant to join. They may suspect the overall population insured through exchanges will be sicker than their current employees. They will worry that their rates will go up if they switch. But over time, the advantages of low transactional costs, more insurance options and relatively stable premiums will entice new companies to join. And once this happens, the risk pool will stabilize, rates will decrease and it will be only a matter of time until most Americans obtain their insurance coverage in this way.

4. Insurers will demand better performance from care providers 
Health care providers – doctors, hospitals and integrated delivery systems – will be forced to compete at a higher level for their patients in the future. Why? Because patients will enjoy greater transparency – knowing which providers offer the best quality, service and price. And because insurers won’t be able to manipulate the risks involved with insuring more people, they’ll look to providers to improve performance.

 

In most communities today, regardless of the insurance products offered, the list of doctors and hospitals offered in each provider network is virtually the same. As a consequence, competition among insurance companies is less about medical care delivery and more about their own administrative expenses and customer service. Today, once the relative health risk among the different insurance companies is factored out, the difference in price and health outcomes is relatively small.

 

In the future, to stay competitive, insurers will need to increase value for their customers. They’ll do so by including in their networks only those physicians and hospitals that provide higher quality at a lower cost. This will require providers to improve the processes and outcomes of the care they deliver.

This shift in competition will begin a virtuous cycle. The lower cost, higher-quality insurance plans will attract more people. A growing membership base will give them greater leverage to demand increased efficiency, higher quality and superior outcomes from doctors and hospitals in their networks. This, in turn, will result in further market-share growth as more consumers see the value.

 

And over time insurers that offer the best value – rather than those who enroll the healthiest individuals – will dominate. And of course, the physicians who are both efficient and able to demonstrate better outcomes will gain the most contracts and attract more patients.

 

Don’t expect to see these changes unfold today or on Jan. 1.

 

Expect Jan. 1 to be only the beginning of industry-wide transformation. It will take time for every state to work through the operational and technical challenges associated with the exchanges. And it will take a few more years for the exchanges to drive the necessary systemwide improvements. But once in place, this Expedia-like service will be the preferred route for individuals and small businesses. And we can expect that – similar to travel, retail and finance – once Americans go down this path, they won’t want to go back.

 

Edited October 1, 2013 by Bliz

[Larry]

(Haven't ever read the whole long quote, let alone the article linked.)

Yeah, I suspect that it's possible that the biggest impact the law will have, will be to make shopping more transparent. Between allowing people to make apples to apples comparisons, to allowing them to switch carriers without a penalty, I think it should do a whole lot to encourage private market competition.

I will also observe, though, that that might not be all good. With everybody competing on the exchanges, we all know that they're going to be competing on price. Who has the cheapest plan at the "silver" level, or whatever?

 

I've seen the impact of such "price is the only factor" competition when I was with a small computer store.  Everything got sacrificed in the name of the lowest price.  Companies that used to have carry-in, three year warranties, went to one year warranties, "you have to ship it back to us for service" warranties, and then "call India, spend four hours with them troubleshooting your own computer, and then India will ship you the part.  When it comes in, call India again, and they'll talk you through replacing your own parts, yourself" 

 

Now days, I see that computers come with 90 day warranties. 

 

Want another place to look?  Look at what "price-only" competition has done to air travel. 

 

Companies are going to be under tremendous pressure to cut every corner they can, to fight for lower prices.  Anything they can do, to still just barely meet the legal minimum coverage (on paper). 

 

In short, I anticipate both good and bad consequences, from this new-found competition. 

 

I like to think that the market will support companies that offer quality.  But I've seen enough to know that it isn't guaranteed. 

[chipwhich]

I've seen the impact of such "price is the only factor" competition when I was with a small computer store.  Everything got sacrificed in the name of the lowest price.  Companies that used to have carry-in, three year warranties, went to one year warranties, "you have to ship it back to us for service" warranties, and then "call India, spend four hours with them troubleshooting your own computer, and then India will ship you the part.  When it comes in, call India again, and they'll talk you through replacing your own parts, yourself"

 

I love that I explain to you why Obamacare is a fail, you spit out the same reasoning as to why it is a fail, but somehow don't realize it's a fail.

 

People will only be able to afford the CHEAP option.

The Quality option will be unaffordable.

 

As time goes on it will be like the rich and the poor.  The gap between the cheap pricing and the quality pricing will greatly divide.

Insurance companies don't want sick people, they want health people. 

 

I like how you "get it" it just doesn't register.

[twa]

one way they cut costs is to make the provider network smaller, so much for keeping your Dr or care provider if they are not in-network.

another is covered procedures....The NYT's even had a decent write up on it.

some very large hospital systems are not going to be in-network

 

 

unless you pay for it

[chipwhich]

one way they cut costs is to make the provider network smaller, so much for keeping your Dr or care provider if they are not in-network.

another is covered procedures....The NYT's even had a decent write up on it.

some very large hospital systems are not going to be in-network

 

 

unless you pay for it

 

And reduce the services they provide and limit the number of times you have access to certain services.

It's catastrophe insurance.  With low coverage.

[Bliz]

one way they cut costs is to make the provider network smaller, so much for keeping your Dr or care provider if they are not in-network.

another is covered procedures....The NYT's even had a decent write up on it.

some very large hospital systems are not going to be in-network

 

 

unless you pay for it

 

That may be so.  But is that necessarily a bad thing?

 

If your preferred doc is too expensive and gets bad results, then is it a bad result that they are no longer in network, and you will have to pay more to use them?  Obviously not the product we were sold, and just a long-term effect this guy predicts.  But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

 

I love that I explain to you why Obamacare is a fail, you spit out the same reasoning as to why it is a fail, but somehow don't realize it's a fail.

 

People will only be able to afford the CHEAP option.

The Quality option will be unaffordable.

 

As time goes on it will be like the rich and the poor.  The gap between the cheap pricing and the quality pricing will greatly divide.

Insurance companies don't want sick people, they want health people. 

 

I like how you "get it" it just doesn't register.

 

You really should consider reading the linked article.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Bliz

[thebluefood]

I'm no expert on Obamacare or health care as a whole, but two things are apparent to me.

 

1.) Our current system of health care is all kinds of messed up, holding people's lives ransom for a "generous fee"

2.) We're not Finland, Germany or even Canada and I doubt we can adapt something similar to their systems. Our country is much larger  (in population) and less homogeneous. I'm guessing our health care needs have much more variety than your average European nation. 

 

I've made it pretty clear I'm very skeptical about Obamacare, and national, universal health care as a whole (universal health care seems much more viable on the state level, though), but I'm willing to give it a chance. 

[Bliz]

(Haven't ever read the whole long quote, let alone the article linked.)

Yeah, I suspect that it's possible that the biggest impact the law will have, will be to make shopping more transparent. Between allowing people to make apples to apples comparisons, to allowing them to switch carriers without a penalty, I think it should do a whole lot to encourage private market competition.

I will also observe, though, that that might not be all good. With everybody competing on the exchanges, we all know that they're going to be competing on price. Who has the cheapest plan at the "silver" level, or whatever?

 

I've seen the impact of such "price is the only factor" competition when I was with a small computer store.  Everything got sacrificed in the name of the lowest price.  Companies that used to have carry-in, three year warranties, went to one year warranties, "you have to ship it back to us for service" warranties, and then "call India, spend four hours with them troubleshooting your own computer, and then India will ship you the part.  When it comes in, call India again, and they'll talk you through replacing your own parts, yourself" 

 

Now days, I see that computers come with 90 day warranties. 

 

Want another place to look?  Look at what "price-only" competition has done to air travel. 

 

Companies are going to be under tremendous pressure to cut every corner they can, to fight for lower prices.  Anything they can do, to still just barely meet the legal minimum coverage (on paper). 

 

In short, I anticipate both good and bad consequences, from this new-found competition. 

 

I like to think that the market will support companies that offer quality.  But I've seen enough to know that it isn't guaranteed. 

 

The Exchange will also have information on customer satisfaction and other things that will give people the option to make choices based on things other than price.  But air travel and healthcare are not an apples to apples comparison.

I probably quoted too much of the article.  It's not much longer than my post.  Give it a read. 

[twa]

That may be so.  But is that necessarily a bad thing?

 

If your preferred doc is too expensive and gets bad results, then is it a bad result that they are no longer in network, and you will have to pay more to use them?  Obviously not the product we were sold, and just a long-term effect this guy predicts.  But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

 

 

You really should consider reading the linked article.

 

Too expensive is rather subjective and bad results are not a metric in the original networks drawn up (they will be rated later,as well as procedures)

 

I would suggest looking carefully before leaping

[chipwhich]

You really should consider reading the linked article.

 

 

I read it.

What it didn't tell you is when the good health plans with cheap prices have all the sick people switching to that plan, premiums will rise significantly to costs for caring for these people.

[skinsmarydu]

People will only be able to afford the CHEAP option.

The Quality option will be unaffordable.

 

Insurance companies don't want sick people, they want health people. 

 

I like how you "get it" it just doesn't register.

My quality option costs quite a bit. I'm a 47-year old, almost lifetime smoker. A yeast infection was considered a pre-existing condition. I'm covered now, however not cheaply. Just happy to be covered at all.

BTW, went to doc yesterday. $25, was in & out in 20 minutes, blood drawing & all.

Love my OBAMACARE.

Edited October 1, 2013 by skinsmarydu

[chipwhich]

My quality option costs quite a bit. I'm a 47-year old, almost lifetime smoker. A yeast infection was considered a pre-existing condition. I'm covered now, however not cheaply. Just happy to be covered at all.

BTW, went to doc yesterday. $25, was in & out in 20 minutes, blood drawing & all.

Love my OBAMACARE.

 

How can you love your Obamacare without having used it for a year and seeing what it's like.

I know it's cute popping little silly posts but you are just stating immaterial snippets.

Everyone will sign up for Obamacare.  We will see which doctors take it which doctors don't.  At that point we will see what quality of service there is.

But I am glad you got your yeast infection fixed.

Let me know when you experience Obamacare, call me in a year.

[twa]

Do you have ins from one of the exchanges?

[skinsmarydu]

How can you love your Obamacare without having used it for a year and seeing what it's like.

I know it's cute popping little silly posts but you are just stating immaterial snippets.

Everyone will sign up for Obamacare.  We will see which doctors take it which doctors don't.  At that point we will see what quality of service there is.

But I am glad you got your yeast infection fixed.

Let me know when you experience Obamacare, call me in a year.

Apparently you haven't followed my posts.  It's been law for 3...COUNT THEM...if you can, 3 years.

Shut up with your silly posts about my serious posts.  Apparently your health record is perfect, and it's been no problem for you to be covered.  Not everyone is you. 

Let's go back to your way...let's see cancer, that sends you over your lifetime limit in less than 8 months.  Been there?  I know people who died because their limit was exhausted.  They COULD HAVE lived to see this day.  I pray that they're blessing my POTUS from above, because he's done what the Rs wanted...an individual mandate.  Look it up. 

[daveakl]

Posted this in another thread. Our experience so far:

We got our bcbs letter yesterday. Our monthly payment (family of 5) is going up 40%. I own my own business, wife is a prn physical therapist. Three kids so we need more then just catastrophic care but not the super gold premium plan. Dont qualify for any subsidies. Not super excited to be paying $4200 more per year.