Buccaners101.com-Source: Washington Redskins are Interested in Tampa Bay Buccaneers CB Aqib Talib

[J-bomb]

Looks like we might not be waiting on talib since we just claimed cb morgan trent off waivers....

[DogofWar1]

I know people are saying offer 5th and 6ths for him, but IF he is cleared to play week 1 by the NFL and federal judges, I'd be fine with a 4th. We're going to have to spend a high pick on a CB sooner or later, a mid-rounder to get a guy who's probably got 5-8 more years, potentially as a #1 CB? I'd do that. Maybe throw in some conditions, but definitely worth it. Shanahan's culture, combined with the much less conducive to violence nature of NoVA (compared to Florida), might allow him to turn things around fairly quickly. And if he flops, a 4th can be recouped reasonably quickly (trade back a half dozen spots in the 2nd or something).

Looks like we might not be waiting on talib since we just claimed cb morgan trent off waivers....

Doubtful that Trent would stop us. Trent has been cut by 4 teams in 3 years. Camp fodder if I've ever seen one. Talib has #1 CB potential. If he gets no jailtime, and it doesn't look like Goodell will throw the book at him, expect Allen to make some phone calls.

[moondog]

for real though, i would take the gamble.. get him around a structured environment, and just hope that it would put him on the straight & narrow.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8296c419/article/detroit-lions-troubled-2011-draft-class-raises-larger-questions

"At the end of the day, when you select a player with issues, he better be in the minority, a small minority, on your team," the AFC personnel executive said. "Get too many players like that, with those issues, and those elements can emerge in your locker room, your weight room, your training room, your practice field and outside the building."

Honestly, it's a really long article but the whole thing is worth reading about how everyone on the outside felt like Detroit's draft class was unreal but all the NFL execs were pretty stunned that Detroit took three straight guys with character issues at the top of their draft and it came back to haunt them because their locker room was not ready to handle it - too young and not enough big name respectable vets that have the ability to reign them in when they get there.

It's a difficult debate, I'm kind of on the fence and see the point of view that it's worth the risk. It sounds like our FO is already planning to make the move. I just think they need to be extra careful in bringing a guy like this in. I think they've built an extremely high character team with only a few of what this article calls "exceptions." I think you could make the argument that DHall fits the mold, he's pretty temperamental but he's always kind of been the only one and seems to fit in with the team (see the point about only having a very small minority of exceptions). Tanard Jackson, I think, is a second guy that has talent but has been a little troubled. All of a sudden if you bring in Talib you've got three guys in the same secondary, including two young guys that come from a team that is basically saying we've had enough and now you're the team enabling them by saying it's ok, we still want you. That is what concerns me the most.

[SonnyandSam]

I think Talib is just a ticking time bomb. I'm surprised Shanny is considering him. The guy's track record is clear. He cannot control himself. He'll end up being shot or shooting someone. Four years and he still hasn't learned to control himself. Talent on field is worthless if he is in jail or on suspension.

[moondog]

And finally I'd prefer we not throw too much at the Bucs for him. A 4th is fair assuming he doesn't do jailtime.

I'm against the move more than I am for it but I would be really upset if we gave a 4th. He's clearly not in their long-term plans and they are just looking to get something back. I know Samuel is older, but if he only netted, what, a 7th rounder, and has been nothing but a good citizen and a great football player then there is no way I want to see us give up a pick as high as a 4th for a guy that could do jail time, is likely to be suspended, and could potentially be a huge distraction/problem in our locker room. The guy punched his own rookie teammate at the rookie symposium. Seriously, who does that?

[illone]

This would be a huge get for the Skins assuming the kid doesn't get into too much trouble.

I'd be all for it, he wouldn't cost much and improves the secondary quite a bit.

[bowhunter]

This would be a huge get for the Skins assuming the kid doesn't get into too much trouble.

I'd be all for it, he wouldn't cost much and improves the secondary quite a bit.

Based upon his track record, that would be a huge assumption. Not just one knucklehead move, not just two knucklehead moves..... and that's with a veteran like Ronde Barber as a leader in the secondary. I don't think Raheem Morris has the reputation as a guy who can reign in the bad guys either.

[JesseNeckred]

if we end up with Talib, that would be amazing with D Hall in the slot or maybe even converted to safety, Josh Wilson was solid last season

D Hall could potentially have a field day against some of the 3rd string receivers, since the slot is typically the outlet receiver if there are no TE or RB routes, with our front 7 getting pressure forcing the QB to throw early

anything that can increase our chance to cause turnovers could be very helpful

[mi6]

An ideal, and lights out secondary would be ...

Defensive Backs

De'Angelo Hall

Josh Wilson

Aqib Talib

Kevin Barnes

C. Minifield

Safeties

Merriweather

T. Jackson

Gomez

Our 2012 Draft pick

[HeluCopter29]

Just depends on the cost. I'd snag him for a 4th or lower. That being said, short leash regardless.

[bowhunter]

I'd like to see what develops out of a young guy like Brandyn Thompson first

[redskindan07]

There's no way we would give up a 4th for him; it would have to be a 6th or 7th rounder

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd like to see what develops out of a young guy like Brandyn Thompson first

You realize Talib's only 3 years older then Thompson through this season right at 26 years of age? With 3 years and 59 more pro games experience.

Hail.

[terpfan]

I don't think I'd go higher than a 5th. I don't think it would even take that much at this point.

[DogofWar1]

I'm against the move more than I am for it but I would be really upset if we gave a 4th. He's clearly not in their long-term plans and they are just looking to get something back. I know Samuel is older, but if he only netted, what, a 7th rounder, and has been nothing but a good citizen and a great football player then there is no way I want to see us give up a pick as high as a 4th for a guy that could do jail time, is likely to be suspended, and could potentially be a huge distraction/problem in our locker room. The guy punched his own rookie teammate at the rookie symposium. Seriously, who does that?

While the Samuel trade might be the best comparison existing this offseason, it's not really a great one. Samuel is 31, and on the downside of his career, while Talib, at 26, *should* have at least 5 years left in him at a high level. That and Philly wanted to get something for Samuel so they didn't have to pay a redundant player, on top of the fact that they felt they got their money's worth of him. Tampa might want to recoup as much value as they can, which means they probably ask for more.

I'd like to think that the Samuel trade lowered the market price for CBs, but I'm not sure it did.

I'd probably structure the trade something like this (after he's determined to not be going to jail, and only if Tampa rejects an initial low ball offer of something like a 6th or 5th, asking for more):

- If Talib receives no suspension AND plays in >90% of defensive snaps AND receives All-Pro honors in the Associated Press, first or 2nd team (pro-bowls are notoriously silly, just ask Fletcher), then Tampa would receive a 2013 4th and 2014 6th.

- If Talib receives no suspension AND plays in >85% of defensive snaps, then Tampa would receive a 2013 4th.

- If Talib receives a suspension of no greater than 2 games OR plays in >70% of snaps, Tampa receives a 2013 5th.

- If Talib receives a suspension of greater than 2 games but no more than 6 games OR plays in >55% of snaps, Tampa receives a 2013 6th.

- If Talib receives a suspension of greater than 6 games, Tampa receives a 2013 7th.

Furthermore, I would define "suspension" as any league mandated punishment announced on or before January 31st 2013. This would mean that any suspension handed out after the trade would still hurt Tampa. On top of that, if he came here and did something, technically Tampa would still be on the hook. Most likely, they wouldn't want this, so we'd compromise it down to any suspension handed out for incidents occurring on or before the trade date, which still is good for us.

If we were able to write it like that, then it's good for both of us. If he plays well we both get good deals, if he does badly, then Tampa gets less and we pay less.

[jivelikenice]

I'd like to see what develops out of a young guy like Brandyn Thompson first

Talib is a potential #1 corner. Thompson was a late draft pick who we're hoping could develop into a nickel. 1 should have nothing to do with the other.

[wilco_holland]

Yeah, did this guy learn from his mistakes...or does he keep making them. You can´t spend a roster spot on a guy who keeps getting in trouble.

[Mania]

I know people are saying offer 5th and 6ths for him, but IF he is cleared to play week 1 by the NFL and federal judges, I'd be fine with a 4th. We're going to have to spend a high pick on a CB sooner or later, a mid-rounder to get a guy who's probably got 5-8 more years, potentially as a #1 CB? I'd do that.

I agree that we are going to need to use a high pick on a CB soon as it is a weak link on the team. That being said a 4th rounder is way too high for a high risk/high reward type player in Aqib Talib. In the draft we would be drafting high character players and leaders on their current college teams. We would also be paying them a much smaller amount for a 2nd round pick then we would be paying Talib.

I'm for the pick if we can trade a 6th / conditional 5th rounder for Talib, but anything higher I'm not supporting.

[skins2victory]

If we do bring him here, I see the CB postion for 2012 playing out like this. In this order......

1) A. Talib

2) J. wilson

3) D. Hall -supposidly he has been playing the nickle position in OTA thus far

4) P. Bucannon

5) B. Thompson

6) C Minnifield

7) K. Barnes

That looks like a very good secondary to me..... HTTR

[Enter Apotheosis]

Assuming we get him, we'll be tight up against the cap, so I have a salary-related question:

Is it possible that we write contracts with REALLY low first year hits and the real salary kicks in once we get the cap space back?

We've basically been doing that already.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Buchanon's (thankfully) long released s2v man.

Hail.

[Mister Happy]

For those that pay attention, how many months old is this?

About 2 months old.

[skinny21]

If we do bring him here, I see the CB postion for 2012 playing out like this. In this order......

1) A. Talib

2) J. wilson

3) D. Hall -supposidly he has been playing the nickle position in OTA thus far

4) P. Bucannon

5) B. Thompson

6) C Minnifield

7) K. Barnes

That looks like a very good secondary to me..... HTTR

You're really close, but I think you meant C. Griffin instead of Buchanon.

[RawBBQSauce]

You're really close, but I think you meant C. Griffin instead of Buchanon.

I hope Ced plays safety instead.

[moondog]

While the Samuel trade might be the best comparison existing this offseason, it's not really a great one. Samuel is 31, and on the downside of his career, while Talib, at 26, *should* have at least 5 years left in him at a high level.....

I know I kind of glossed over it with just saying "I know Samuel is older." I'm aware of all the poor comparison stuff between the two, I compared them basically to say that one has been highly productive and shown he still is very recently as in last season. He's had no off the field trouble so while I get that Talib is younger and all that you mentioned, I'm simply saying for all the positives Talib has, his negatives destroy his value and to me, at least, cancel all the extra value he SHOULD have over a guy like Samuel. And again, this is my opinion of what I would give up for him, and I don't think I would make the deal regardless but again, it's just my opinion not what the team will necessarily do.

Obviously you can make all kinds of conditions on what picks you give up, to me, none of it is worth the attitude he may bring in the weight room, the practice field, the locker room, etc. The guy can ball, no one will debate that. But I don't think Talib has ANY value around the league due to his issues and all the suspensions and fines Goodell has been handing out. Tampa Bay would obviously LOVE to be "fairly" compensated but they also apparently don't plan to re-sign him so they don't have a ton of leverage.

With as young as our team is, I just don't like the idea of bringing in a veteran guy with his attitude and problems to influence them. It goes against everything Shanahan has done in terms of players brought in. I guess he has also signed Meriweather, and I wasn't really a fan of that move either. We need talent in the secondary, but at what cost?