Nas vs Jay-Z. Who's the better rapper?

[skinsfan07]

Gucci Mane-Lemonade

Wacka Flocka Flame -Grove St. Party

Rick Ross-Maybach Music

Go listen. Real Hip Hop

Not sure if srs?

[Mr. Sinister]

Not sure if srs?

He's 27... not a chance in hell. If he was like 15-16, then I would've believed him, sadly.

[abdcskins]

Nas by quite some margin.

A lot of you are only focusing on popular mainstream rappers. Biggie, Tupac, Nas, Jay-Z....all amazing MCs and top 25 all-time no doubt. But there are better emcees who make better music with more lyrical depth.

Rakim

Kool G Rap

KRS-One

Big Daddy Kane

Common

Pharoahe Monch

Black Thought

Del the Funky Homosapien

Aceyalone

All better lyricists. By far. Well, maybe not by far. But better. Nas is easily one of the best lyricists along with Tupac. Jay-Z and Biggie are pretty overrated imo.

[skinsfan07]

abdc, I been saying that for years man! Biggie is overrated and IMO Jay-Z is a carbon copy of the cat. However Tupac was IMO better than Big, because of his depth and knowledge. Biggie was a great storyteller and no doubt a great emcee, but Tupac just had IT. He was a real poet who just happened to be good at rapping.

[Sticksboi05]

All better lyricists. By far. Well, maybe not by far. But better. Nas is easily one of the best lyricists along with Tupac. Jay-Z and Tupac are pretty overrated imo.

Fixed it. Amazing how your legacy explodes when you're desperate for attention.

[abdcskins]

Biggie's dope. Ready to Die is a top 30 hip hop album ever. But dude wasn't all that diverse in his topical matter. Street gangster braggadocious stuff over and over along with some women and money stuff. At least he was clever in the way he delivered it. Also, he barely had more than one album. Life After Death is ehhh.

Also, not sure about what you are saying about the desperate for attention thing.

I should also add that I don't like Tupac's music at all. I do recognize the excellence in his writing though.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Ready to Die was an autobiography concept album. I mean he committed suicide at the end. Top 30? Top 5 is more like it

[Sticksboi05]

Biggie's dope. Ready to Die is a top 30 hip hop album ever. But dude wasn't all that diverse in his topical matter. Street gangster braggadocious stuff over and over along with some women and money stuff. At least he was clever in the way he delivered it. Also, he barely had more than one album. Life After Death is ehhh.

Also, not sure about what you are saying about the desperate for attention thing.

I should also add that I don't like Tupac's music at all. I do recognize the excellence in his writing though.

I 100% agree Tupac was a better songwriter. Wonder how Life After Death does if he isn't murdered during its release. It has sold over 10 million copies. But I also think it's become more appreciated like many albums. Now, I wasn't old enough to analyze music in 1997 so I'm not trying to be a Robert Christgau etc. but what I mean is a lot of the songs over time have become essential in the Biggie catalog along with the tracks on the more influential Ready to Die. You look on people's iPod's you'll likely see Juicy but then you'll see Hypnotize and Mo Money Mo Problems etc.

[DCranon21]

abdc, I been saying that for years man! Biggie is overrated and IMO Jay-Z is a carbon copy of the cat. However Tupac was IMO better than Big, because of his depth and knowledge. Biggie was a great storyteller and no doubt a great emcee, but Tupac just had IT. He was a real poet who just happened to be good at rapping.

Biggie overrated skinsfan, at the time, Biggie was the best. Go listen to Flava In Ya Ear, and he actually ruined Craig Mack's Bad Boy career. Biggie was far from mainstream when he came out at first. Diddy just introduced him how he can translate of what he lived into major sales. Biggie had the lyrics, voice, and most of all people wanted to hear him. After he dropped "Juicy", people flocked to grab the single. So after that and Flava in Ya Ear Remix, Ready to Die dropped, and in my opinion, was one of the best Hip-Hop album to hit the stores. He only had maybe two radio tracks, but you need radio tracks in order to sell to the masses and make money. Listen to Brooklyn's Finest off of Reasonable Doubts. By far he carried that song. Also Ready to Die was a classic album. Outside of Hypnotize, that whole cd was hot. I still listen to both to this day. A lot of artist are living what Biggie's done. To be honest, in Jay-Z's lyrics he has a lot of Biggie's influence in them. He evolved from his 1st release to his 2nd release in my opinion. I'm not trying to turn this into a Biggie vs 2Pac thread, but it did take Tupac 3 releases before he was really noticed, it only took Biggie one release to set the world on fire.

[Springfield]

Nas is one of many rappers who's best album was their first. DMX had a great first album, probably one of my favorites of all time. They both fell off after that. They put out songs, some of which were good but never a complete masterpiece like their first albums were. Jay Z keeps coming out with hits. Some of his most recent albums were his best.

I don't know if that makes Jay Z a better "rapper" but living in the past doesn't automatically make Nas a better one.

[Sticksboi05]

Nas is one of many rappers who's best album was their first. DMX had a great first album, probably one of my favorites of all time. They both fell off after that. They put out songs, some of which were good but never a complete masterpiece like their first albums were. Jay Z keeps coming out with hits. Some of his most recent albums were his best.

I don't know if that makes Jay Z a better "rapper" but living in the past doesn't automatically make Nas a better one.

Jay-'s always had better commercial smarts but does that make him a better rapper. Interesting to discuss. Talent or being able to stay relevant?

I'd say Jay's biggest influece is B.I.G. while Nas' is Rakim. Agree?

[authentic]

Nas is one of many rappers who's best album was their first. DMX had a great first album, probably one of my favorites of all time. They both fell off after that. They put out songs, some of which were good but never a complete masterpiece like their first albums were. Jay Z keeps coming out with hits. Some of his most recent albums were his best.

I don't know if that makes Jay Z a better "rapper" but living in the past doesn't automatically make Nas a better one.

Nas' problem wasn't that he feel off lyrically... The production of his albums have been suspect.... The only reason why i say that is because of the remix album of God Son, 9th wonder did an album called God's Stepson, which is would be up there with illmatic... Check it out when you get a chance... other wise I give Nas the slight edge lyrically over Jay Z, because Nas' rhymes possess more substance, though Jay is definitely nice in his own right...

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 06:59 PM ----------

Jay-'s always had better commercial smarts but does that make him a better rapper. Interesting to discuss. Talent or being able to stay relevant?

I'd say Jay's biggest influece is B.I.G. while Nas' is Rakim. Agree?

Naw, actually Jay's biggest influence was his mentor Jaz O. Basically took his style straight from him.

.....Nas? i would agree his biggest influence was Rakim.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 07:05 PM ----------

I don't know any other way to put it honestly? Commercial hip hop died with Biggie and Pac. They were both incredibly talented, the only other commercial artists I can stand are Eminem and Guru (RIP). Just how I feel about it.

Most of the true commercial hiphop artists are being phased out and are on the wrong side of 35... The Roots, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Redman, Eminem, Busta Rhymes, Talib Kweli, Mos Def .......etc.. All of these acts are of the 90s... i can't think ANY after that era that have been experienced commercial success.. Most of them are part of independent labels now.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 07:07 PM ----------

I like Jay-Z, don't get me wrong, but I've always thought he's a tad overrated. I still think he's one of the better rappers right now, but I'd take Nas and Eminem over him.

I don't know Jay Z is nice.. but as i think about it, you're right he is a bit over rated... but dude has some classics, especially with those first 2 albums!!

[skinsfan07]

Biggie overrated skinsfan, at the time, Biggie was the best. Go listen to Flava In Ya Ear, and he actually ruined Craig Mack's Bad Boy career. Biggie was far from mainstream when he came out at first. Diddy just introduced him how he can translate of what he lived into major sales. Biggie had the lyrics, voice, and most of all people wanted to hear him. After he dropped "Juicy", people flocked to grab the single. So after that and Flava in Ya Ear Remix, Ready to Die dropped, and in my opinion, was one of the best Hip-Hop album to hit the stores. He only had maybe two radio tracks, but you need radio tracks in order to sell to the masses and make money. Listen to Brooklyn's Finest off of Reasonable Doubts. By far he carried that song. Also Ready to Die was a classic album. Outside of Hypnotize, that whole cd was hot. I still listen to both to this day. A lot of artist are living what Biggie's done. To be honest, in Jay-Z's lyrics he has a lot of Biggie's influence in them. He evolved from his 1st release to his 2nd release in my opinion. I'm not trying to turn this into a Biggie vs 2Pac thread, but it did take Tupac 3 releases before he was really noticed, it only took Biggie one release to set the world on fire.

Did you read the rest of my post? Yeah I said he was overrated but I also said he was one of the best emcees. I don't hate Big, I just feel like he was a tad bit overrated, that's all. Life After Death no doubt was a top 10 album of all time. Same with Ready to Die.

[authentic]

Did you read the rest of my post? Yeah I said he was overrated but I also said he was one of the best emcees. I don't hate Big, I just feel like he was a tad bit overrated, that's all. Life After Death no doubt was a top 10 album of all time. Same with Ready to Die.

you're not the only one.. don't feel bad... ...actually i wouldn't put Life after Death in the top 10.. Ready to Die, may make my top 15 how ever.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Biggie overrated skinsfan, at the time, Biggie was the best. Go listen to Flava In Ya Ear, and he actually ruined Craig Mack's Bad Boy career. Biggie was far from mainstream when he came out at first. Diddy just introduced him how he can translate of what he lived into major sales. Biggie had the lyrics, voice, and most of all people wanted to hear him. After he dropped "Juicy", people flocked to grab the single. So after that and Flava in Ya Ear Remix, Ready to Die dropped, and in my opinion, was one of the best Hip-Hop album to hit the stores. He only had maybe two radio tracks, but you need radio tracks in order to sell to the masses and make money. Listen to Brooklyn's Finest off of Reasonable Doubts. By far he carried that song. Also Ready to Die was a classic album. Outside of Hypnotize, that whole cd was hot. I still listen to both to this day. A lot of artist are living what Biggie's done. To be honest, in Jay-Z's lyrics he has a lot of Biggie's influence in them. He evolved from his 1st release to his 2nd release in my opinion. I'm not trying to turn this into a Biggie vs 2Pac thread, but it did take Tupac 3 releases before he was really noticed, it only took Biggie one release to set the world on fire.

It didn't even take Juicy or the Flava remix. He did guest verses first. Like on MJB's Real Love when he first got noticed. Then he came out with Party and Bull**** on the Who's the Man Soundtrack. That's when people really started to talk about him. I played that song to death. Check out how many times he changes his flow between P&S and the Life After Death album. Pretty remarkable. He didn't depend on the beats to set his songs apart. He changed his cadence, speed and tone to keep things fresh sounding. Not a lot of MCs do that. A lot of guys sound the same most songs. Em is another guy that changes it up a lot.

Also, you're getting your albums confused. Hypnotize wasn't on RTD. I don't even think that was the worst song. I've always hated Mo Money. Way too much Puffy influence. It sold, though, so you can't hate on that. I was really disappointed how much Puffy did on LAD. I really wanted to see Easy Mo Bee produce more tracks than he did. Kinda disappointed he only did two.

[Springfield]

Jay-'s always had better commercial smarts but does that make him a better rapper. Interesting to discuss. Talent or being able to stay relevant?

I'd say Jay's biggest influece is B.I.G. while Nas' is Rakim. Agree?

Well, I responded to the thread as far as who I thought was the better rapper. There are several things that I'd say comprise a good "rapper". Obviously there is lyrical ability, the ability to tell a good story. There's flow, the ability to make your words link together seamlessly. Other things help one become a good rapper. Choosing who you work with can have a huge impact whether it be other rappers or producers.

In my opinion Jay Z edges out Nas in about every category that a "rapper" could be measured by other than lyrical ability in my opinion. He's not that far back in his lyrical ability either. Where he completely outdoes Nas is the producers that he's chosen to work with and what beats he decides to rap over. He outdoes Nas in his flow. Perhaps that's Jay Z's ability to stay relevant, he's been able to do it with the biggest names in the industry with some of the best beats ever made.

Nas' problem wasn't that he feel off lyrically... The production of his albums have been suspect.... The only reason why i say that is because of the remix album of God Son, 9th wonder did an album called God's Stepson, which is would be up there with illmatic... Check it out when you get a chance... other wise I give Nas the slight edge lyrically over Jay Z, because Nas' rhymes possess more substance, though Jay is definitely nice in his own right...

Going back to my response to Sticks. Nas has the ability to choose what he wants to rap over. He's a big enough name that if a producer brings him a beat and he doesn't like it, he can tell that person to take the beat back to the drawing board. It says a lot about Nas that another producer can pick up his lyrics and put down a better track than Nas could. It's Nas' fault that his beats have been suspect. He's not some up and coming rapper out there being force fed beats.

[authentic]

It didn't even take Juicy or the Flava remix. He did guest verses first. Like on MJB's Real Love when he first got noticed. Then he came out with Party and Bull**** on the Who's the Man Soundtrack. That's when people really started to talk about him. I played that song to death. Check out how many times he changes his flow between P&S and the Life After Death album. Pretty remarkable. He didn't depend on the beats to set his songs apart. He changed his cadence, speed and tone to keep things fresh sounding. Not a lot of MCs do that. A lot of guys sound the same most songs. Em is another guy that changes it up a lot.

Also, you're getting your albums confused. Hypnotize wasn't on RTD. I don't even think that was the worst song. I've always hated Mo Money. Way too much Puffy influence. It sold, though, so you can't hate on that. I was really disappointed how much Puffy did on LAD. I really wanted to see Easy Mo Bee produce more tracks than he did. Kinda disappointed he only did two.

I hate to be overly simplistic, but BIG probably should have had DJ Premier produce his entire album...

[sacase]

Well one positive about this thread, we are talking about true hip hop artists. Thankfully no one has come in here and said Wayne is the best. LOL

[authentic]

Going back to my response to Sticks. Nas has the ability to choose what he wants to rap over. He's a big enough name that if a producer brings him a beat and he doesn't like it, he can tell that person to take the beat back to the drawing board. It says a lot about Nas that another producer can pick up his lyrics and put down a better track than Nas could. It's Nas' fault that his beats have been suspect. He's not some up and coming rapper out there being force fed beats.

Nas' issue regarding production is that he wanted to get away from the umbrella of illmatic.. I agree that it was all his fault... In a recent interview with Pete Rock and DJ Premier, they BOTH said that they are ready, and borderline BEGGING to produce an album for Nas... As i think about it, to this day, that was the greatest collection of producers to lace an album... (Q Tip, Premo, Pete Rock, Large Professor, MC Search, and L.E.S.).... Actually, IMO he hurt his career by leaning on mediocre production.. I don't know whats wrong with him.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 07:57 PM ----------

Well one positive about this thread, we are talking about true hip hop artists. Thankfully no one has come in here and said Wayne is the best. LOL

if they do that, then i'm gone.. i swear, i won't say one more word here...

[Major Harris]

Black Thought

.

i was hoping he'd be mentioned. i didn't want to be the first because i say it in every hip hop thread i post in....but he is my favorite lyricist.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

So I'm sitting here listening to Illmatic, and of course every time I listen to anything by Nas, I wonder, how come so many people favor Jay-Z over Nas? Is it because he's easier to understand? More mainstream? In my opinion Nas is and has been the better rapper for years, but because he hasn't sold out like Jay did early in his career, he doesn't get as much credit. Just because you sell more doesn't automatically make you better, it just makes you more popular. Jay has to "dumb it down" for his listeners to sell, AND add to the fact that he has one of the best producers in the game (Kanye) by his side, it's no surprise how he does it.

Nas cares more about his craft than his money, and more to the point, Nas seems to have more of a social awareness than jay-z. jay-z was and still remains a great lyricist, but the lyrical content is what makes nas better. does nas keep saying its the roc, hov, hovito, young hov, hova? no, he says maybe his name a couple of times, or escobar, but not in the amount jay z says. Jay rides his own jock more than any other rapper I've listened to (other than Lil Wayne smh)So my vote goes to Nas.

I like both of them.........but seriously, Nas cant hold HOVA's jock.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 11:30 PM ----------

I think Jay Z has more gravitas, and is in his own right a great lyricist, and can flow on a top 3-5 level (obviously), but I think Nas is just hands down the better storyteller, and can go deeper than Jay Z can. But Jay Z can use whatever style he wants to, because he is talented enough to pull it off, so I don't think they are separated by a mile like many others do. I honestly think that anyone who says that hasn't listened to any Jay Z albums before Kingdom Come

Kingdom Come sucked..............The last blueprint album put him back on the map. All songs on there were money.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 11:34 PM ----------

Well one positive about this thread, we are talking about true hip hop artists. Thankfully no one has come in here and said Wayne is the best. LOL

Wayne is the best..........

[DCranon21]

It didn't even take Juicy or the Flava remix. He did guest verses first. Like on MJB's Real Love when he first got noticed. Then he came out with Party and Bull**** on the Who's the Man Soundtrack. That's when people really started to talk about him. I played that song to death. Check out how many times he changes his flow between P&S and the Life After Death album. Pretty remarkable. He didn't depend on the beats to set his songs apart. He changed his cadence, speed and tone to keep things fresh sounding. Not a lot of MCs do that. A lot of guys sound the same most songs. Em is another guy that changes it up a lot.

Also, you're getting your albums confused. Hypnotize wasn't on RTD. I don't even think that was the worst song. I've always hated Mo Money. Way too much Puffy influence. It sold, though, so you can't hate on that. I was really disappointed how much Puffy did on LAD. I really wanted to see Easy Mo Bee produce more tracks than he did. Kinda disappointed he only did two.

No you're right, I meant to say Life After Death with Hypnotize. At first when I heard Hypnotize, I'll admit, I didn't care, but I was like **** it, it's a Biggie track and it actually grew on me as I heard it more. I think Easy Mo Bee had two tracks on LAD. I agree, Easy Mo should have had more tracks on LAD, but Puff was in control of the production. I have to look at the booklet again. Puff started to use more of the Hitmen on LAD, D-Dot, Premiere had two tracks on there if I recall. Puff wanted to start to use more of his production on all of BB releases after the success of RTD.

[Mr. Sinister]

I like both of them.........but seriously, Nas cant hold HOVA's jock.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 11:30 PM ----------

Kingdom Come sucked..............The last blueprint album put him back on the map. All songs on there were money.

---------- Post added May-29th-2012 at 10:39 PM ----------

I said before, not after. And I don't think Kingdom Come necessarily sucked, it just wasn't up to the standard that Jay himself set. And the last Blueprint work was "Blueprint lll." Or are you talking about Blueprint ll?

[Sticksboi05]

I like both of them.........but seriously, Nas cant hold HOVA's jock.

Illmatic is better than anything Jay-Z ever did or will do since he's a massive step down from Reasonable Doubt.

[Skin'Em84]

Nas. By a mile.