Avengers vs. Justice League. Who would win?

[Mr. Sinister]

If you're using newer members then JLA would just have Zatanna wipe all of the Avenger's memories

I wasn't. 07 was, before he changed the rules/evened things out to allow for more compelling argument

[skinsfan07]

If you're using newer members then JLA would just have Zatanna wipe all of the Avenger's memories

Wouldn't happen. Scarlett Witch would just counter Zatanna's moves. So pretty much that would be a stalemate.

[elkabong82]

Since we all know Sentry would beat Superman, we had to even the battlefield and "remove" him from the discussion because he is "too new" a Super hero. lol And as for Elkabong, if you think that Capt would lose to Batman, I would like to know how. Captain America isn't invincible but it'd be pretty hard for him to lose to Batman EVEN if Batman uses his tools. Capt is a perfect specimen, and I don't think Batman would be able to keep up.

Sentry's mental issues could be exposed in battle. Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman could expose that.

First, Batman would get the shield away from Cap to open up vulnerability. Cap is still a man and still has vulnerabilities, so a nerve gas could work. But I think Batman would take advantage of Cap's emotions and get him to slip up enough to open a spot up for a high voltage electric shock, or a littany of other devices that could incapascitate even a super-serum induced man. The fight wouldn't end quickly, and the longer it last the longer Batman has to keep egging Cap on and find a weakness. Cap is passionate, Batman is the ultimate strategist.

---------- Post added May-8th-2012 at 10:07 PM ----------

Wouldn't happen. Scarlett Witch would just counter Zatanna's moves. So pretty much that would be a stalemate.

Flash would take out Scarlett Witch real quick. Aside from the version that was infected by an evil entity, the normal Scarlett Witch could only work off line of sight. Flash moves too quick for her to see, and bam, knocks her out cold.

[Skin'emAlive]

Ok, i have a different perspective on this. Im thinking along the lines of Wanted with Angelina Jolie. What if Hawkeye just hid himself miles away and blasted the JLA with funny arrows.

Supes - Kryptonite arrow

Batman - Giant fist arrow

Green Lanturn - Yellow Net arrow

Aquaman - an arrow with an insult to fish and directions for him to go home

Flash - Ice arrow

Wonder Woman - Glue Arrow that sticks her stupid bracelets together .... though it wouldnt really be necessary because any dude could just go and bing her bracelets together and she would be done. Stupid

I dont know Martian Manhunter really at all... so i cant say what he would shoot at them. But for the most part, he could pick them all off, or just knock them out, and then the rest of the team could finish them off.

That being said, Hawkeye is lame.

[skinsfan07]

Sentry's mental issues could be exposed in battle. Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman could expose that.

First, Batman would get the shield away from Cap to open up vulnerability. Cap is still a man and still has vulnerabilities, so a nerve gas could work. But I think Batman would take advantage of Cap's emotions and get him to slip up enough to open a spot up for a high voltage electric shock, or a littany of other devices that could incapascitate even a super-serum induced man. The fight wouldn't end quickly, and the longer it last the longer Batman has to keep egging Cap on and find a weakness. Cap is passionate, Batman is the ultimate strategist.

---------- Post added May-8th-2012 at 10:07 PM ----------

Finally someone who knows of Sentry's weakness. However it all depends on if MMH can expose that. Sentry may not be the strongest minded super hero but there are a lot of ways he can evade being mentally taken advantage of. As for Batman getting Capt. America's shield away from him, you're assuming that Capt. America won't be expecting Batman to do that. Capt. has phenomenal military training and although he may not be as tactical as Batman, I'd say he's about 3/4ths. That's why I say it's a 50-50 push for Capt. Could go either way though. One of the toughest matchups ever.

Flash would take out Scarlett Witch real quick. Aside from the version that was infected by an evil entity, the normal Scarlett Witch could only work off line of sight. Flash moves too quick for her to see, and bam, knocks her out cold.

Don't really see the Flash being a factor in that battle but sure he would take of Scarlet Witch, but if I recall doesn't she have the power to literally make the Flash, well slow? Don't call me on that, but I thought she had some kind of power like that.

[elkabong82]

Trust me, I agree Cap vs. Batman would be really tough to call, and would be an epic match-up. I just think Batman get a slight edge. Let's say out of 10 fights Batman wins 6.

Scarlet Witch has hex power so she could make Flash slow, but she'd have to see him slow down during a fight w/ someone else since she depends on line of sight. Scarlett Witch when infected at the height of her powers could have taken Flash's powers away completely though.

IMO, classic JLA vs. Avengers comes down to the key fights of Superman vs. Hulk, Iron Man vs. Green Lantern, Wonder Woman vs. Thor, Batman vs. Captain America.

Flash is important, so is Martian Manhunter, so is Atom Ant. But Wasp IMO is a weak character, and unless in optimal circumstances so is Aquaman. Flash takes down hawkeye, Manhunter takes down Ant, Aquaman takes down Wasp. Thor takes down WW, though it would be a good fight. I think the other 3 are each a push, Iron Man gets an edge, Bats and Cap will say it's a push, Supes gets edge on Hulk, but barely. So as far as classic teams go, the extras help push JLA just slghtly over Avengers.

[Mr. Sinister]

Lol, I almost read elk's post as "Scarlet Witch has sex power"

[skinsfan07]

Trust me, I agree Cap vs. Batman would be really tough to call, and would be an epic match-up. I just think Batman get a slight edge. Let's say out of 10 fights Batman wins 6.

Scarlet Witch has hex power so she could make Flash slow, but she'd have to see him slow down during a fight w/ someone else since she depends on line of sight. Scarlett Witch when infected at the height of her powers could have taken Flash's powers away completely though.

Really? I had Capt. pegged at 8/10 but agree to disagree. And yea that's what I was thinking about SW. Was just reading about some of her powers and yeah if she caught him off guard she could slow him down and.or take his powers away. As long as they hadn't engaged in a fight with each other, than I could see SW taking Flash out if she keyed in on him. And as for Zatanna, does she not has nearly identical powers to SW as well? Pretty close right?

[elkabong82]

Really? I had Capt. pegged at 8/10 but agree to disagree. And yea that's what I was thinking about SW. Was just reading about some of her powers and yeah if she caught him off guard she could slow him down and.or take his powers away. As long as they hadn't engaged in a fight with each other, than I could see SW taking Flash out if she keyed in on him. And as for Zatanna, does she not has nearly identical powers to SW as well? Pretty close right?

In the newer issues, Zatanna has similar powers to SW, but better powers. SW is much more limited on her own w/o the entity inside her (sort of like Jean Grey w/ Phoenix). Zatanna is actually one of the strongest members of JLA because of her magic ability (can tango w/ Supes) and ability to freeze people and mind wipe.

---------- Post added May-8th-2012 at 10:41 PM ----------

As far as villains go, I always liked the Thanos vs. Darkseid discussions when I was a teen

[Kindred]

I think in the Avengers movie, they just made the Hulk damn near invincible.

"Thats my secret. I'm ALWAYS angry"

[Skin'Em84]

I think in the Avengers movie, they just made the Hulk damn near invincible.

"Thats my secret. I'm ALWAYS angry"

That's because he damn near is. Bruce Banner is not, but Hulk is definitely as close to invincible as you could be without being invincible.

[Burgold]

The real answer is which writer gets the job. If it's a DC writer, then JLA. If it's Marvel, then the Avengers win.

In a series of one on ones... and mind you my comic book knowledge is more seventies and eighties based...

Hulk versus Superman... They actually did this. Supes won. There were a couple of intercomic clashes. Back then though, the Invisible Girl could beat the Hulk by suffocating him with a force field around his head.

Thor vs. Wonder Woman. I go with Thor. The Amazons aren't Gods, but are really, really tough.

Iron Man vs. Green Lantern. Question is whether Iron Man can paint his armor yellow quickly enough. Otherwise, Green Lantern can manifest anything using his will and conventional weapons just won't cut it.

Ant Man beats up the Atom or Giant Man steps on the Atom.

The Wasp takes out Aqua Man unless they are in a swimming pool. Again, the Wasp can just hover around and blast away safely from a distance.

Hawkeye and Green Arrow provide no victors. Each perfect shot splits arrows on route. No one ever gets hit.

Black Widow versus Black Canary, I think I'll go with the Widow.

Bad guys. Eating popcorn enjoying the hell out of this.

[ArmchairRedskin]

People give Batman way too much credit. What If they all met and there was a spontaneous battle ala Anchorman? Or If the battle had prep time you don't think any of the other guys would make any special preparations?

[skinsfan07]

People give Batman way too much credit. What If they all met and there was a spontaneous battle ala Anchorman? Or If the battle had prep time you don't think any of the other guys would make any special preparations?

Exactly. Batman fanboys will never say their favorite hero will lose. Acting as if everyone else will be oblivious to Batman's planning and just sit there in the open and let him take em each out 1 by 1.

[elkabong82]

That's not it at all. Those who discount Batman simply take his skills for granted. If there's prep time, Batman is the best in preparation. If it's spontaneous, he draws the fight out to try and find a weakness. He wouldn't beat Thor, nor Hulk for example.

[Predicto]

People give Batman way too much credit. What If they all met and there was a spontaneous battle ala Anchorman? Or If the battle had prep time you don't think any of the other guys would make any special preparations?

Of course they would. But the Batman's special power is that he is better at it than they are. That's what makes him comic book material. Without that, he's just a grumpy dude.

He can still lose to every single other superhero, but you have to allow him his chance. For example, he might have a clever plan to get Cap's shield away from him, and it might work, but if Cap manages to close on him and punch him in the face a few times, Bat's going down anyway.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Meh, the Scarlet Witch would just turn the Sun red... okay, I don't think that's probable, but that's how ya get Supes. That, magic and Kryptonite.

Oh, and knock knock jokes. They just knock him out.

The Martian guy thirives of the Red Sun right? He's basically Superman but only with a Red Sun instead of a yellow one and no issues with Kryptonite. I would think that if that happened, you would have even more problems because now, you have zero means by which to combat the effects.

The question of Hulk getting mad enough to beat up Superman is a good one because he does get stronger but, all you have to do is take him out into space and he will die. He needs oxygen and that's a problem for the Hulk.

Wow, I don't think I've been in a discussion like this since I was a boy. lol It's kinda fun.

[Mr. Sinister]

Batman is a thinker. I think it's safe for us to assume that he wouldn't just go head to head with anyone on the field of battle. He would resort to some form of sabotage. If you're going to include every superhero's tendencies/strategy, then how are Batman's stealth skills overlooked?

He wouldn't go toe to toe with anyone in the open, at least not before he's weakened them in some form or fashion. That's just not Batman like.

[Predicto]

One thing I'm definitely getting out of this thread? Superman is lame as ****

That is the problem with being the first superhero. The writers couldn't anticipate the problems they were creating for themselves by making their hero ever more powerful. In the 60s and 70s, Superman comics were utterly lame, because he could do anything, and they were reduced to 5000 lame tricks involving Kryptonite shoelaces and endless gimmicks like "Race around the world context between Superman and the Flash" and "Superman gets turned into a Super-Baby!"

or this

Of course, Batman sucked then too, but it was easy to make Batman good again - all you had to do was get rid of Robin.

[CrypticVillain]

Okay, I have sat on my hands for too long and obviously nobody is going to bring it up....

Is there anyway the X-Men could be factored into this battle??? :whoknows:

[elkabong82]

Even though I think JLA wins in a straight match up, I give Marvel more credit because of it. DC tended to have powerful characters w/ few if any weaknesses, whereas Marvel's characters have weaknesses and their strengths have limits too. Although DC gets credit for Batman being, IMO, the best comic hero, Marvel has always been better than them at creating intriguing heros instead of going the easy route and making a DC hero whose powers can do a crap ton of stuff and they have one gimmicky weakness.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Black Widow versus Black Canary, I think I'll go with the Widow.

Black Canary would pummel the Widow mainly because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Canary

Dinah Lance, the second Black Canary, possesses a "Canary Cry" – a high-pitched, sonic scream which she can deploy to shatter objects and incapacitate her opponents. Analyzing her capabilities, Dr. Mid-Nite found that she can reach ultrasonic frequencies outside the audible spectrum which render human beings unconscious. However, the cry has been shown to be completely useless when Dinah's mouth is covered with a gag, piece of tape, or any other means of forcing her mouth closed. When Canary is close enough she can unleash her cry to literally destroy an opponent but this is an absolute last resort.

Dinah states that her Canary Cry is able to inflict serious damage to beings even as durable as Wonder Woman (she has used this ability to overpower Giganta, blow Amazo's head off, and managed to overscream Silver Banshee). Moreover, in JLA/JSA: Vice and Virtue it is shown that Dinah is capable of not only creating sonic blasts, but also could generate an ultrasonic attack, which renders everyone within an ear range unconscious.

[JMS]

That is the problem with being the first superhero.

John Carter was the first Super Hero.. 1890's.

[skinsfan07]

The Martian guy thirives of the Red Sun right? He's basically Superman but only with a Red Sun instead of a yellow one and no issues with Kryptonite. I would think that if that happened, you would have even more problems because now, you have zero means by which to combat the effects.

The question of Hulk getting mad enough to beat up Superman is a good one because he does get stronger but, all you have to do is take him out into space and he will die. He needs oxygen and that's a problem for the Hulk.

Wow, I don't think I've been in a discussion like this since I was a boy. lol It's kinda fun.

Actually if you've read up about the Hulk, you would know that he can survive outside of Earth's atmosphere, and into the lower depths of space, so to speak.

---------- Post added May-9th-2012 at 03:35 PM ----------

Okay, I have sat on my hands for too long and obviously nobody is going to bring it up....

Is there anyway the X-Men could be factored into this battle??? :whoknows:

Glad you mentioned it, if you go back to the beginning of this thread (I know it's gotten deep now) I posted that the Xmen AND Fantasic Four are member of The Avengers (the team is huge now). I think they'd have a huge impact on the fight. Just think about Wolverine, Beast, Storm, Human Torch, Thing, and others teaming up? It would be ridiculous. Granted most would get taken down but if you leave it up to me, I'd say Wolverine could take down a few JLA members, no problem (I'm lookin at you Aquaman lol)

Who do you guys think Wolverine could take down in the JLA? I mean he killed Jean Grey, one of the most powerful X-Men ever.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually if you've read up about the Hulk, you would know that he can survive outside of Earth's atmosphere, and into the lower depths of space, so to speak.

I haven't read Comic Books in about 35 years but I did see the Hulk movie where he hitched a ride on the Eagle and in that movie, he absolutely lost consciousness when they started to reach the upper atmosphere so I don't know how that works.

If he loses consciousness then all you would have to do is get him into the vacuum of space and set him up with a little inertia. He would float away from Earth for ever. Strength in a vacuum does nothing for you, no matter how much of it you have.