Ok people Let's come down, and think rationally.

[CRobi21]

Yeah, because I don't have over 11,000 post. And being respected on a message board isn't really important. We'll never meet each other.

So does that make it more or less embarrassing for you knowing the 70,000 member population of this board doesn't need to know you to recognize how pointless your thoughts are?

[DM72]

So does that make it more or less embarrassing for you knowing the 70,000 member population of this bored doesn't need to know you to recognize how pointless your thoughts are?

I think we should take this up in a private message.

[Conn]

Yeah, because I don't have over 11,000 post. And being respected on a message board isn't really important. We'll never meet each other.

1. It has nothing to do with how many posts you or I have.

2. You'd be surprised how many people on ES know each other outside this message board.

And anyways, why share your thoughts (such as they are) on a message board, if you don't give a **** what people think about them? You might as well just type them up in a word document and read them to yourself.

[Mr. Sinister]

Sounds like someone is getting a little upset. :evilg:

[DM72]

Sounds like someone is getting a little upset. :evilg:

Not at all. We're just getting too far off topic.

[Bang]

Sounds like someone is getting a little upset. :evilg:

Someone is most definitely mad.

DM72, the topic has become your lack of an ability to carry on a football conversation.

And it's no one's fault but your own

~Bang

[Mr. Sinister]

Someone is most definitely mad.

~Bang

Yeah, I agree, definitely a lil salty

[DM72]

Someone is most definitely mad.

DM72, the topic has become your lack of an ability to carry on a football conversation.

And it's no one's fault but your own

~Bang

Bang, why would I ever get mad at someone I don't know? You're the one that started swearing and name calling yesterday.

[Skins199021]

I would also like to point out.... do people not see the correlation between, our offense doing really bad and making our defense less effective?

These players are people and get tired just like anyone. When the defense goes on the field and stops them, then have to come back on the field 5 minutes later because the O goes 3 and out.... its hard to catch a break you know. Especially against Cam Newton, and Vick..... who not only can throw but can run around for a while.

I am just saying.... everyone is acting like the defense is bad now..... no I believe it is a mix of them being on the field too long..... plus a bad game mixed in here or there.... they are not perfect.

[Bang]

I would also like to point out.... do people not see the correlation between, our offense doing really bad and making our defense less effective?

These players are people and get tired just like anyone. When the defense goes on the field and stops them, then have to come back on the field 5 minutes later because the O goes 3 and out.... its hard to catch a break you know. Especially against Cam Newton, and Vick..... who not only can throw but can run around for a while.

I am just saying.... everyone is acting like the defense is bad now..... no I believe it is a mix of them being on the field too long..... plus a bad game mixed in here or there.... they are not perfect.

Good post, because it seems for some that this absolute fact of football gets lost in the frustration of a loss.

Football is the most team oriented sport in America, maybe the world.

All players are dependant on other players doing their job to be successful.

the individual superstar makes less of an impact in football than any other sport. Not even the most amazing talent can do it alone.

There are reasons why everything happens. As fans, we are here because we love the game, and since we love the game, should try to see it for what it acually is.

I hate losing. But talking about the nuts and bolts of a loss can be interesting, and can lead to better understanding of what needs o be done to correct the problems.

~Bang

[penasquito]

Hi, all. I'm a cowboys fan, but I thought this might be a worthwhile contribution to this thread. It struck me after visiting a cowboys site and this fine site right here that nobody would guess that both teams are 3 and 3. But both fanbases are over reacting to the latest game result. I think the well-intended but slightly mangled title of this thread is good advice for both groups. The challenges and opportunities for these clubs havent changed that much since last week. And they'll change just a much in another week. Try to enjoy it if you can. Come the long, slow offseason, you'll be wishing you had.

[ross3909]

I blame myself for caring about this moribund team, until I see some life from them in November, I am becoming a casual fan. I cannot just be pissed off every Sunday.

[Mr. Sinister]

As I've gotten older ( and maybe continuous losing seasons has something to do with it), losses have affected me less and less. When I was younger, during the Spurrier days, and Gibbs ll, I Iived and died after every loss. The shutout loss to the Cowboys killed me. Ditto for the WellingtonMara game, the Chargers OT defensive meltdown, the Tampa 2 pt conversion, I could go on and on. That beatdown against the Steelers in '08 had a big impact on me. It was at that moment where I said, "Alright, I'm ****ing tired of feeling this way."

After '09, I just sort of disconnected myself from the painful reality of having to watch a pathetic team week in and week out that (at that time) was completely in over it's head from the top of the organization all the way down. Right now, I give myself a few hours to ***** and moan, and then it's business as usual. Like another poster said, it takes a lot of the pain out of a loss, but it also diminishes a victory, or a winning streak, because deep down, you know that it is fools gold.

[prufRock]

They're an average team, which I think most people expected. That means their victories and their streches of good play are built upon a fragile, thin framework. If one player goes down, the team has a hard time filling that void. If they were an elite team, they'd be able to compensate for the loss of a few players here and there. See the Green Bay Packers for an example. As it stands, the 3 victories were the result of solid play across the o-line, decent quarterback play, very good defense, and of course, catching some bad teams or catching decent teams when they weren't playing very well. That's how mediocre teams roll.

Certainly, you can make the case that the team is improving. Most people point to defensive improvement, and an overall better attitude and level of effort (although I think measuring attitude and effort is pretty much impossible -- you can evaluate anything going on on the field and the sidelines and spin it any way you want...). I have a couple of lingering doubts about the overall program though:

1) How much can a team really progress without a franchise quarterback in place? I'm racking my brain to come up with teams that have made the leap from poor to elite by building the rest of the roster up first and THEN acquiring their franchise QB. In most cases, the QB comes in very early as part of the team's new direction and grows as the rest of the team grows.

2) We've gone 2 offseasons without addressing the QB situation. Is it possible Mike Shanahan was just a little deluded about his ability to rehabilitate an inconsistent, journeyman QB? In other words, was he so confident that he can turn a John Beck or Rex Grossman into a superstar that he devalued prospects in the draft? You look at his history with Brian Griese and Jake Plummer and you have to wonder. I, for one, do not believe he expected Beck and Grossman to struggle the way they have and that just makes me worry that his stubbornness is going to continue to cloud his judgement about finding the right QB. Just an opinion...

[Conn]

As I've gotten older ( and maybe continuous losing seasons has something to do with it), losses have affected me less and less. When I was younger, during the Spurrier days, and Gibbs ll, I Iived and died after every loss. The shutout loss to the Cowboys killed me. Ditto for the WellingtonMara game, the Chargers OT defensive meltdown, the Tampa 2 pt conversion, I could go on and on. That beatdown against the Steelers in '08 had a big impact on me. It was at that moment where I said, "Alright, I'm ****ing tired of feeling this way."

After '09, I just sort of disconnected myself from the painful reality of having to watch a pathetic team week in and week out that (at that time) was completely in over it's head from the top of the organization all the way down. Right now, I give myself a few hours to ***** and moan, and then it's business as usual. Like another poster said, it takes a lot of the pain out of a loss, but it also diminishes a victory, or a winning streak, because deep down, you know that it is fools gold.

Couldn't have described how I personally feel more truthfully than you've already done here, Sinister.

When we missed that extra point that would have sent us into overtime (blocked, I believe) last year, my girlfriend just sat there in silence, waiting for the explosion. For the anger. She knows, and she's a pretty big fan herself. I just let out a long, slow breath, closed my laptop with the stream, gameday thread, fantasy scoreboards and everything still open, and got up. Put my shoes on, and said "lets go to a matinee, its not healthy for my happiness to be dictated by such a ****ty team every weekend." I've done something similar ever since. I still feel the same way, though less intensely. I just don't let it ruin my life for a day or two anymore.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Couldn't have described how I personally feel more truthfully than you've already done here, Sinister.

When we missed that extra point that would have sent us into overtime (blocked, I believe) last year, my girlfriend just sat there in silence, waiting for the explosion. For the anger. She knows, and she's a pretty big fan herself. I just let out a long, slow breath, closed my laptop with the stream, gameday thread, fantasy scoreboards and everything still open, and got up. Put my shoes on, and said "lets go to a matinee, its not healthy for my happiness to be dictated by such a ****ty team every weekend." I've done something similar ever since. I still feel the same way, though less intensely. I just don't let it ruin my life for a day or two anymore.

I agree....I have a few years on you and have had the pleasure at least of seeing the Super Bowls, but it has been almost 20 years of misery. I have burned hats in the garage, yelled, pouted. Now, I either switch on another game or head out to the batting cage or to play catch with my kid. My years of giving way to much of a crap about the team when the team (owner) does not give a rats ass about me are over. I am still a rabid fan, savor the wins, but the losses just do not ruin my weekend or Monday any longer.

[DM72]

I agree....I have a few years on you and have had the pleasure at least of seeing the Super Bowls, but it has been almost 20 years of misery. I have burned hats in the garage, yelled, pouted. Now, I either switch on another game or head out to the batting cage or to play catch with my kid. My years of giving way to much of a crap about the team when the team (owner) does not give a rats ass about me are over. I am still a rabid fan, savor the wins, but the losses just do not ruin my weekend or Monday any longer.

I hope I never get to that point. But the way this team is going, I'm afraid that I might.

[BucketHTTR]

They still ruin my week until Friday. I'm hoping one day I can get past that lol

[KCClybun]

I agree....I have a few years on you and have had the pleasure at least of seeing the Super Bowls, but it has been almost 20 years of misery. I have burned hats in the garage, yelled, pouted. Now, I either switch on another game or head out to the batting cage or to play catch with my kid. My years of giving way to much of a crap about the team when the team (owner) does not give a rats ass about me are over. I am still a rabid fan, savor the wins, but the losses just do not ruin my weekend or Monday any longer.

I'm not even that far in. I've only really been a fan for like, three seasons. If things are going bad, I don't get pissed, I don't throw stuff, I don't scream and yell and get huge headaches like I used to...because what's the point? I mean, it doesn't solve anything. If I burned something...they already have my money, lol. So I'm out 20 bucks, my team lost, AND I don't have a hat.

When we lose, it stings for a little while, but ultimately I kinda get over it and move on with my life. I never get fans who stay in perpetually bad moods, hours and even days after the loss. I don't know how many times I've seen people say "Man, this loss was as bad as when we loss this other time". Really? A season or more has gone past and you're still dwelling on that one loss?

Let it go. It's much easier to be a fans when you're not running your head into a wall and throwing tantrums over a friggin' football game.

[Mr. Sinister]

They still ruin my week until Friday. I'm hoping one day I can get past that lol

That's how I used to be

I would be literally inconsolable for the entire week, up until kickoff. Now it doesn't even faze me. The Steelers game on MNF was our moment to announce that the Redskins were back. We brought out the Burg on Burg, guys were wearing golden cleats, we were 6-2, etc etc. I didn't even remotely feel like we had any shot of losing that game, and it just hits you like a swift kick in the nuts.

" There they go again.""Same old Redskins."

[Bang]

They're an average team, which I think most people expected. That means their victories and their streches of good play are built upon a fragile, thin framework. If one player goes down, the team has a hard time filling that void. If they were an elite team, they'd be able to compensate for the loss of a few players here and there. See the Green Bay Packers for an example. As it stands, the 3 victories were the result of solid play across the o-line, decent quarterback play, very good defense, and of course, catching some bad teams or catching decent teams when they weren't playing very well. That's how mediocre teams roll.

Certainly, you can make the case that the team is improving. Most people point to defensive improvement, and an overall better attitude and level of effort (although I think measuring attitude and effort is pretty much impossible -- you can evaluate anything going on on the field and the sidelines and spin it any way you want...). I have a couple of lingering doubts about the overall program though:

1) How much can a team really progress without a franchise quarterback in place? I'm racking my brain to come up with teams that have made the leap from poor to elite by building the rest of the roster up first and THEN acquiring their franchise QB. In most cases, the QB comes in very early as part of the team's new direction and grows as the rest of the team grows.

2) We've gone 2 offseasons without addressing the QB situation. Is it possible Mike Shanahan was just a little deluded about his ability to rehabilitate an inconsistent, journeyman QB? In other words, was he so confident that he can turn a John Beck or Rex Grossman into a superstar that he devalued prospects in the draft? You look at his history with Brian Griese and Jake Plummer and you have to wonder. I, for one, do not believe he expected Beck and Grossman to struggle the way they have and that just makes me worry that his stubbornness is going to continue to cloud his judgement about finding the right QB. Just an opinion...

This is a very good post, especially the explanation of how a mediocre building team is going to fare through adversity.

My opinipns on the 2 points..

1. Absolutely we must have a quarterback. While it's true that a lot of teams do begin their build with a QB, not many of them succeed in their rebuild when they do that, and a lot of those QBs end up on the scrap heap. the Redskins needed a lot of pieces. Like 50 of them.

QBs that have come in and succeeded right away do largely in part to the other blocksi n place around them. Joe flacco comes to a team with a lights out defense and a good solid veteran OL to give him time. Half their team is already built, and the rest needs tweaking around him.

Matt Ryan came into a team that had spent the previous few drafts acquiring top receivers for Vick, and they gave him a pounding running back to take some heat off.

Stafford.. the Lions are loaded with number one overall picks before they took him.

Eli Manning inherited a defense and an OL, Roethlisberger stepped onto a perennial winner, Rivers had one of the best offensive sets in the NFL..

These guys are all great players and i'm not diminishing their accomplishments, but the teams they are taking to the top now had begun before.

About the only ones out there now i can think of that came to a team that needed everything and took him first is Bradford.. and now he's suffering as a result.

Alex Smith.. finally has a coach.

2. Shanahan thought he had addressed it at least for the forseeable future last year. (at least 3 years) but was burned by the mcNabb trade. That's a setback.

I don't know what they thought of last draft's crop of QBs, but there's no way I can argue with the draft strategy at this point.

I doubt he honestly believes Grossman was the answer.. he may believe in John Beck. He sure seemed to, but gave Rex the startig nod when i thought Beck outplayed him in preseason. So who knows what he's thinking there... Shanahan is cagier than most.

but given his track record with quarterbacks, both vets and draftees.. I'm not ready to believe he's been bamboozled. I think there's a plan.. I just don't know the details.

~Bang

[prufRock]

Couldn't have described how I personally feel more truthfully than you've already done here, Sinister.

When we missed that extra point that would have sent us into overtime (blocked, I believe) last year, my girlfriend just sat there in silence, waiting for the explosion. For the anger. She knows, and she's a pretty big fan herself. I just let out a long, slow breath, closed my laptop with the stream, gameday thread, fantasy scoreboards and everything still open, and got up. Put my shoes on, and said "lets go to a matinee, its not healthy for my happiness to be dictated by such a ****ty team every weekend." I've done something similar ever since. I still feel the same way, though less intensely. I just don't let it ruin my life for a day or two anymore.

Bingo. Not healthy, not in your control. I'm sure this is not a popular line of thinking here, but I came to that exact realization a while back as well.

[Conn]

Bingo. Not healthy, not in your control. I'm sure this is not a popular line of thinking here, but I came to that exact realization a while back as well.

I don't think its an unpopular line of thinking around here. I think its just something that we all come into as we mature and have other "big ****" happen in our lives. I mean, it obviously doesn't effect our passion for the game or for the team in general. It doesn't make us lesser fans. Its just less of an unhealthy relationship.

[bedlamVR]

Don't dismiss negativity as irrational thought. It's actually very rational in this situation.

.

Really ? Is it ? What rational effect is being negative and by continuation ****ing and whining of fans on a message board going to have on the Redskins organization .

On its very very best day fan action can get someone fired (it had something to do with Vinny being shown the door - not the final nail in the coffin but one of them) but is that what we really want here . Do we want Shanahan and the rest of the coaching staff canned after less than 2 seasons . Is that the rational response to where we find ourselves ? To repeat the same fire and hire (or hire and quit) cycle we have seen replayed time after time over the last 17 years or so .

If thats what we want , some one fired then sure you are right being negative is a very rational process . I am not so sure and I would say you are mistaken if not flat out wrong . Redskins fans need to support the Redskins, or need to care enough to look like they do . I do I hope others will think about it before posting negative threads ..

[PeterMP]

This is a very good post, especially the explanation of how a mediocre building team is going to fare through adversity.

My opinipns on the 2 points..

1. Absolutely we must have a quarterback. While it's true that a lot of teams do begin their build with a QB, not many of them succeed in their rebuild when they do that, and a lot of those QBs end up on the scrap heap. the Redskins needed a lot of pieces. Like 50 of them.

QBs that have come in and succeeded right away do largely in part to the other blocksi n place around them. Joe flacco comes to a team with a lights out defense and a good solid veteran OL to give him time. Half their team is already built, and the rest needs tweaking around him.

Matt Ryan came into a team that had spent the previous few drafts acquiring top receivers for Vick, and they gave him a pounding running back to take some heat off.

Stafford.. the Lions are loaded with number one overall picks before they took him.

Eli Manning inherited a defense and an OL, Roethlisberger stepped onto a perennial winner, Rivers had one of the best offensive sets in the NFL..

These guys are all great players and i'm not diminishing their accomplishments, but the teams they are taking to the top now had begun before.

I'm far from sold on Flacco. Given the players around him, you'd think he'd be far more productive. Can we see the team win a playoff game first? I think they have this year and next, and then we are talking about the regression of the team even w/ Flacco.

Ryan and Stafford were unique situations where the team may have been "good", but they were also REALLY bad (and I'm giving you that the Lions had "talent" there because I don't feel like breaking down their roster to see who was actually there when they drafted Stafford, but that wasn't a "good" team (he went to an 0-16 team)). They were #1 and #3 picks. Manning was the #1 pick in the draft (so Rivers went to the Chargers who were REALLY bad the year before), and the Giants were 4-12 and had the 4th pick, fired their coach, the year they got Eli, and were 6-10 the next year (so here we're talking about picks that are 1, 1, 3, and 4).

So you're essentially talking about 1 team where the team wasn't BAD (and I'd say REALLY bad if we leave out the Giant) to get the guy that ended up being their QB (Oh and the Steelers were 6-10 the year they got Roethlisberger).

Now, if you're saying this team is going to have to take a step back to get better or get really lucky, you are talking my language.

The person you really want to point to is Aaron Rodgers, but again, I'm willing to concede that is possible to get lucky.

About the only ones out there now i can think of that came to a team that needed everything and took him first is Bradford.. and now he's suffering as a result.

Alex Smith.. finally has a coach.

You're talking about very recent history, I assume? Vick in Atlanta. Manning with the Colts. McNabb in Philly. Aikman with the Cowboys.

---------- Post added October-24th-2011 at 07:15 PM ----------

Really ? Is it ? What rational effect is being negative and by continuation ****ing and whining of fans on a message board going to have on the Redskins organization .

On its very very best day fan action can get someone fired (it had something to do with Vinny being shown the door - not the final nail in the coffin but one of them) but is that what we really want here . Do we want Shanahan and the rest of the coaching staff canned after less than 2 seasons . Is that the rational response to where we find ourselves ? To repeat the same fire and hire (or hire and quit) cycle we have seen replayed time after time over the last 17 years or so .

If thats what we want , some one fired then sure you are right being negative is a very rational process . I am not so sure and I would say you are mistaken if not flat out wrong . Redskins fans need to support the Redskins, or need to care enough to look like they do . I do I hope others will think about it before posting negative threads ..

Who has said anything about firing anybody?