Syracuse, Pitt Leaving Big East For The ACC; TCU Bolting For Big 12

[MattFancy]

So this has to mean the end of the BCS right? I mean if there's only going to be the ACC, SEC, Pac-12ish, and the BigTenish. So would the Big East and Big 12 still get bids with hardly any teams left in them?

[DjTj]

So this has to mean the end of the BCS right? I mean if there's only going to be the ACC, SEC, Pac-12ish, and the BigTenish. So would the Big East and Big 12 still get bids with hardly any teams left in them?

After re-alignment, I think we go back to Bowl games. Pac-12-to-16 vs. Big Tenormore in the Rose Bowl, SEC champion vs. top available team in the Sugar Bowl, ACC champion vs top available team in the Orange Bowl. There will be split national championships, we'll go back to the drawing board, and maybe we'll get a playoff.

[Major Harris]

well, i guess if we get a play off i can chalk this up as taking one for the team?

my stomach hasn't hurt like this since december of '07

[Heisenberg]

As long as there is still a way for an "at large" team - preferably teams - to make the playoffs then that would be great. If this basically just becomes a smaller 1A then all of this sucks.

[MattFancy]

As long as there is still a way for an "at large" team - preferably teams - to make the playoffs then that would be great. If this basically just becomes a smaller 1A then all of this sucks.

I agree. As long as the 4 big conferences left don't shut out the rest of College football, I'm ok with this.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

So this has to mean the end of the BCS right? I mean if there's only going to be the ACC, SEC, Pac-12ish, and the BigTenish. So would the Big East and Big 12 still get bids with hardly any teams left in them?

After re-alignment, I think we go back to Bowl games. Pac-12-to-16 vs. Big Tenormore in the Rose Bowl, SEC champion vs. top available team in the Sugar Bowl, ACC champion vs top available team in the Orange Bowl. There will be split national championships, we'll go back to the drawing board, and maybe we'll get a playoff.

You guys are so positive... thinking this means the NCAA will get together and make things better for the fans after this. I laugh at that though. Don't worry, we'll all be screwed somehow.

[Spartacus87]

no one from the big east wanted to admit this, but at this point, what the hell....

what you're describing is the big east the last several years (and the acc for that matter)

I've said that for awhile now- which is why I always thought the Big East vs ACC arguments in the NCAA forum were a bit silly.

Since about 2004, the Big East has had WVU, and the ACC has had VT. Maybe some random individual teams would pop up in any given year, like Cincinnati, Louisville, Boston College, Georgia Tech, or even (ugh) Wake Forest.

But WVU and VT were the only consistently respectable programs in that stretch for either conference, and neither program turned their windows of conference domination in to BCS Championships (although WVU came close). The rest of each conference sucked in the mean time.

And as an FSU fan, I'm well aware of how a lot of the crap the ACC has taken in the past few years is FSU's (and Miami's) fault, for continuously failing to live up to (misplaced) expectations.

The Big 12 has been the same way though. The only difference is that Texas and OU have been elite programs while the rest of the conference stunk, outside of spotty success from Texas Tech, or Nebraska before they left for the Big 10. But because Texas and OU were great, nobody really talked about how terrible the rest of the Big 12 was.

I think going forward, the Big East will struggle to be a decent football conference. Too many of the schools are located in areas that aren't suitable for building strong football programs, whether it's because of no real proximity to large/deep recruiting bases, or because the schools are in areas that just aren't very dedicated to college football culture.

WVU's pipeline to Florida has been pretty big, and maybe USF can do something with Skip Holtz in charge, but otherwise, the Big East, as it currently is, doesn't have the brightest football outlook.

The ACC meanwhile has not been quite as pathetic as most people think. The only conference that's been in the same neighborhood as the ACC in terms of producing strong defensive units and NFL defensive talent has been the SEC. The ACC has had some ridiculously good defensive coordinators over the last few years in programs like Clemson, Miami, VT, FSU (until the end of the Bowden era at least), Boston College, and UNC. The ACC, as a conference, has largely sucked because it's probably had the worst collective grouping of offensive coaches out of any of the BCS conferences.

The ACC could be an extremely good football conference, given several of the schools' prime locations for talent and their devoted football cultures. But programs like UNC and Miami just got burned by the dangers of having a strong BCS football program and will probably back away from those efforts, programs like UVA and Duke are not going to forfeit any of their academic priorities to dedicate themselves to building strong football programs (especially after seeing what happened to UNC and Miami), and Clemson is still screwing around with Dabo as their HC.

[hokie4redskins]

I agree. As long as the 4 big conferences left don't shut out the rest of College football, I'm ok with this.

You're not paying attention. That's exactly what this is. 64 teams, playoffs, big money, and anybody outside the club of 64 is essentially getting screwed. Indy's like BYU and ND will be screwed (which is why ND better hop on the bandwagon if they know what's good for them). Upstarts like Boise will be screwed. Former club members like Baylor and Iowa State will be screwed, possibly more.

But I think the true end result is the superconferences will declare independence from the NCAA, a corrupt and dishonest system, so the schools can become corrupt and dishonest without fear of NCAA hypocritical retribution.

But that's just a hunch.

[MattFancy]

You're not paying attention. That's exactly what this is. 64 teams, playoffs, big money, and anybody outside the club of 64 is essentially getting screwed. Indy's like BYU and ND will be screwed (which is why ND better hop on the bandwagon if they know what's good for them). Upstarts like Boise will be screwed. Former club members like Baylor and Iowa State will be screwed, possibly more.

But I think the true end result is the superconferences will declare independence from the NCAA, a corrupt and dishonest system, so the schools can become corrupt and dishonest without fear of NCAA hypocritical retribution.

But that's just a hunch.

It looks that way but who knows. It might not be too terrible if they just had 64 teams though. I mean 117 teams just seems like way too many anyway. But it wil be interesting to see what happens with all the realignment and how the Bowls work out.

[heyholetsgogrant]

You guys are so positive... thinking this means the NCAA will get together and make things better for the fans after this. I laugh at that though. Don't worry, we'll all be screwed somehow.

Maybe the major 4-5 conferences can pull out of the NCAA entirely

[The Evil Genius]

I guess what I am not seeing is what Pittsburgh and Syracuse brings to the ACC that they didn't have already?

As long as Bristol sucks on Duke and UNC's teet in basketball and Miami and FSU's teet in football - the ACC was in no danger of going anywhere.

Hard to be a media thing when Pitt and Syracuse add marginal markets. Pittsburgh is ranked in the mid twenties for media market (and it shares a portion of that with WVU). Syracuse is in the 80's.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I guess what I am not seeing is what Pittsburgh and Syracuse brings to the ACC that they didn't have already?

As long as Bristol sucks on Duke and UNC's teet in basketball and Miami and FSU's teet in football - the ACC was in no danger of going anywhere.

Hard to be a media thing when Pitt and Syracuse add marginal markets. Pittsburgh is ranked in the mid twenties for media market (and it shares a portion of that with WVU). Syracuse is in the 80's.

Mid-20's is a good add. You are selling that way too short. As for Cuse, are you counting essentially all of upstate NY, which roots for Cuse, or just Syracuse the city?

You can't just look at the city size though is what I'm saying. The fact that the SEC is the most valued college football media market with such metropolises as Baton Rouge and Gainesville leading the charge should tell you that.

[The Evil Genius]

Mid-20's is a good add. You are selling that way too short. As for Cuse, are you counting essentially all of upstate NY, which roots for Cuse, or just Syracuse the city?

You can't just look at the city size though is what I'm saying. The fact that the SEC is the most valued college football media market with such metropolises as Baton Rouge and Gainesville leading the charge should tell you that.

I was counting the Syracuse media market, as defined by wikipedia.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=tv+media+market&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGLL_enUS422US422&ie=UTF-8

On a semi related note - the BE remaining school's presidents and AD's are meeting tonight in NYC to determine how to proceed.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/09/big-east-officials-gathering-in-new-york/1

[Spartacus87]

I guess what I am not seeing is what Pittsburgh and Syracuse brings to the ACC that they didn't have already?

As long as Bristol sucks on Duke and UNC's teet in basketball and Miami and FSU's teet in football - the ACC was in no danger of going anywhere.

Hard to be a media thing when Pitt and Syracuse add marginal markets. Pittsburgh is ranked in the mid twenties for media market (and it shares a portion of that with WVU). Syracuse is in the 80's.

I agree.

And neither program adds enough as a national brand to make it worthwhile for ESPN to re-open the ACC contract, as it currently is. Especially since the ACC doesn't have its own 3rd Tier network option like the Pac-12 or Big 10 does (unless you want to count its deal with Raycom, but that's a stretch, and individual teams are free to negotiate their 3rd tier licensing with regional networks the same as other conferences), so ESPN fully owns the ACC TV product.

And again, this is why I believe that adding Pitt and Syracuse means 1 of 3 things:

1- It's a way of expanding the market footprint for the ACC, but for a 3rd Tier network plan that hasn't come in to play yet. Examples being the Longhorn Network, which is partnered with ESPN and would receive advertising fees from the Pittsburgh and New York markets, because Texas actually is a valuable brand. Or maybe some sort of re-worked ACC deal for their own network with ESPN, although I don't know if that's possible for the ACC with their new ESPN contract (it's not for the SEC with their ESPN/CBS contract).

2- Swofford doesn't really know what he's doing, he's never shown the ability to understand the importance of football in strengthening the ACC, and this is a purely defensive move to try and stabilize the ACC as a conference and to justify the increase in buyout to 20 million (which even then isn't that much if a school like VT or FSU jumped to the SEC and received aid from its new conference in paying that buyout off...for comparison's sake, I've read that the Big 12's buyout is also roughly 20 million, and that's clearly not that big of a deal).

3- Swofford is actually a genius with a crystal ball, or is having dumb luck, and this will work out perfectly in 10 or 15 years, when the media and college sports landscapes have somehow changed dramatically and the ACC's value in basketball is worth much more than it currently is for some sort of new online distribution/ACC network plan.

[DjTj]

I guess what I am not seeing is what Pittsburgh and Syracuse brings to the ACC that they didn't have already?

As long as Bristol sucks on Duke and UNC's teet in basketball and Miami and FSU's teet in football - the ACC was in no danger of going anywhere.

Hard to be a media thing when Pitt and Syracuse add marginal markets. Pittsburgh is ranked in the mid twenties for media market (and it shares a portion of that with WVU). Syracuse is in the 80's.

Taking Pitt and 'Cuse takes away from the Big East. The ACC wants to be the dominant east coast conference, and the easiest way to do that is to sabotage your biggest competitor.

If only one BCS bowl bid/playoff spot/major TV contract is going to be given to an east coast conference in the future, is it going to go to the ACC or the Big East? After taking Pitt and 'Cuse, the clear answer is the ACC.

You don't need to gain much in absolute terms as long as you are clearly gaining relative to your competitors.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

All these conferences are making plans for the next 25 years. Pitt and Syracuse make the ACC a "big" conference. Now, if FSU or VT bolts to the SEC, it can survive. It has enough schools. It has a big footprint. It's secure in a lot of major east coast markets. And it just killed the Big East. Not a bad day's work.

[The Evil Genius]

The thing is, the BE was/is in no danger of losing its BCS slot, despite what the ACC people want. Plus, the BE was (according to the print media) on the verge of receiving a slightly better TV deal than the ACC got a few years back.

I can see why Pitt and Syracuse would want to go the ACC - I just really don't see the appeal of them to the ACC.

[MattFancy]

The thing is, the BE was/is in no danger of losing its BCS slot, despite what the ACC people want. Plus, the BE was (according to the print media) on the verge of receiving a slightly better TV deal than the ACC got a few years back.

I can see why Pitt and Syracuse would want to go the ACC - I just really don't see the appeal of them to the ACC.

Only thing I can think of with Cuse is the NY market. But Cuse won't bring much in terms of football to the ACC. Basketball, yes.

Pitt is a decent football school, nothing special. Not sure if they'll win an ACC title anytime soon, but they could be competitive at least.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It's not about competitive games. It's not about basketball. It's mostly about the dollars the league can generate off of you while still looking like it cares about academics....sort of.

Again, if it was about competitiveness in football and basketball, every conference would be at WVU's door.

[88Comrade2000]

The remaining Big East and Big 12 football schools should merge, invite a few Mountain West teams, fill it out with some Conference USA teams, and just call it the "Big Enough to Deserve an AQ Bid" conference. UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, TCU, Boise State, Memphis? Marshall? UCF? SMU? Houston? ECU? UNLV? There must be a 16-team conference in there somewhere.

I've suggested that.

Already rumors are Mountain West and Conference USA have talked about merging.

Big East talked about merging with Big 12. Remaining Big EAST members have a meeting tomorrow.

Also, looks like WVU has been rejected by both the ACC and SEC. Ha Ha.

[The Evil Genius]

Unless they can pay their way out, it's somewhat satisfying that Pitt and Syracuse have to wait another 3 seasons before they jump to the ACC.

[pjfootballer]

LOL at alot of you talking about academics. Do you really care about which school graduates how many and all that other stuff? I'm 43 and been to college. I don't really care about graduation rates. I watch the football and basketball games for entertainment. Doesn't matter to the average fan about tiers. I think the ACC and SEC are blowing smoke up the media's butt saying they care about the academic ratings. Bullspit. They want to make MONEY in football. They are looking for 3 things. Market (network draw), popularity of the football team (tickets/following) and how many bowls the teams have been to and how much more bowl money they can bring.

LBK is right, this is about football and football only. The ACC took Syracuse and Pitt and are looking at UConn because I think they are a two fold deal. Despite not having recent success, Syracuse and Pitt have been good to great teams in their histories. UConn is on the rise in football. And all 3 bring strong basketball teams to bump the Big East Basketball from the #1 conference ranking.

I know why they are looking at Rutgers. New Jersey/New York. I'd be more inclined to take WVA because it would strengthen the football. And WVU has a good basketball team. Rutgers has been meh..in both sports. They may be holding out for ND, but I'm not sure I'd want the Irish in the ACC.

WVA has been told not now by the ACC and SEC because I think they are waiting for the rest of the Big 12 dominoes (Texas, Oklahoma) to fall. Once they align themselves with a conference, I think either the SEC or ACC would want WVA. For all the talk about WVA being in a small market, both the SEC (Miss, Miss St., Arkansas for example) and the ACC (Clemson, VIrginia, VA Tech for example) have small market teams already. Its a matter of if they want to add another. I for one would take WVA over Rutgers because of the strength of their sports, not academics.

[Spartacus87]

LOL at alot of you talking about academics. Do you really care about which school graduates how many and all that other stuff? I'm 43 and been to college. I don't really care about graduation rates. I watch the football and basketball games for entertainment. Doesn't matter to the average fan about tiers. I think the ACC and SEC are blowing smoke up the media's butt saying they care about the academic ratings. Bullspit. They want to make MONEY in football. They are looking for 3 things. Market (network draw), popularity of the football team (tickets/following) and how many bowls the teams have been to and how much more bowl money they can bring.

You don't really know what you're talking about here.

Academics play a much bigger part in this than you realize.

[The Evil Genius]

I almost think UCF and Houston would make sense in this regard (if it's really about media markets).

Memphis is horrible though. Perhaps the worst 1A team in football.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15606543/pillaged-big-east-can-survive-if-it-follows-this-plan

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Leftover Big 12/Big East football schools (yuck) may be the best option.