TimmySmith Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 WVU has three problems - none of which are easily fixed.....Boise State has most of the above AND is NOT within 300 miles of some of the hottest recruiting territory in the country. WVU is lucky with respect that it is the ONLY game in town, so to speak, and has almost no direct competition for local talent. Everyone else has at least one other major University within 50 miles. WVU's ONLY problem IMO is that it brings nothing to the table when it comes to prestige. It was a true feather in the BE's cap back in the day. It will not be feather in the cap of the Big 10, ACC or SEC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The best thing for WVU would be the Big America Conference I suggested. That conference would be made up of the survivors of the Big East and Big 12 and the best of the Conference USA, Mountain West and maybe even the MAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 The Big 10 and ACC are the two worst when it comes to playing the academics card when it suits them and ignoring it when it does not. By no standard is Florida State on the same level of Duke or UVA yet those schools were happy to welcome FSU when it suited their purpose. If WVU were in a larget state or had a national championship in its pocket' date=' its admission standards would not be an issue.[/quote']Yes, survival needs make for relaxed standards. But adding WVU is not a matter of survival. And WVU is measurably worse in terms of academic reputation than FSU. I'll challenge your idea that WVU's admission standards "would not be an issue" under the conditions you describe. Look at what Virginia Tech went through in 2003, as a bigger-state school with a BCS championship game appearance just a handful of years earlier. The ACC initially seemed to dismiss the school out of hand, pursuing others instead. It was only a round of swing-vote arm twisting from the VA governor that got them a second look from the conference, this time in depth and in person, at which point the ACC realized that VT was in fact a better school than the likes of FSU. (Which was never at issue in rankings like USNews to begin with!) And VT was -- and is -- a MUCH better school than WVU by academic reputation. If VT went through all that to get their invitation after being initially dismissed, and under conditions where the entire expansion concept hinged critically on admitting them, then what chance would WVU have under far less favorable conditions -- without any arm twisting, without their invitation being the lynchpin in an expansion scheme -- even if they were in a bigger state and/or had some equivalent championship-game achievement to claim? WVU's academic reputation -- of which admission standards are a part -- clearly is still the big sticking point. For the record, I don't think it's worth changing the school's mission just for conference affiliation purposes. Otherwise I'd consider the notion of WVU pivoting their mission over the next 15-20 years in return for conference admission now. WVU and the ACC seem to value somewhat different academic missions. I see nothing fundamentally wrong with that. Shrug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I guess my frustration in all this is that this is not a discussion of what school should associate with what school for research purposes or for exchanging professors.This is a discussion about college athletics where' date=' ironically, Harvard is excluded because its standards are too high. The Big 10 and ACC are the two worst when it comes to playing the academics card when it suits them and ignoring it when it does not. By no standard is Florida State on the same level of Duke or UVA yet those schools were happy to welcome FSU when it suited their purpose. If WVU were in a larget state or had a national championship in its pocket, its admission standards would not be an issue. As for the grandfather aspect in all this, I think the SEC likes having Vanderbilt involved simply because it rasies the GPA and graduation rate of the league as a whole. It's like the fraternity letting in the smart guy who will do everyone's homework.[/quote']I wonder if academics is partially a euphemism for "has enough prep school kids to play lacrosse/field hockey/crew." If we want to tie it back to athletics, one thing that a lot of "high standards" ACC schools have is a connection to certain private schools and certain sports, that may not be played at other big state schools. If you want to look past football and basketball, having a competitive conference for soccer, tennis, golf, etc. will correlate to a certain extent with academic standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I like this from the ACC. Strike before the others gobble up all the good teams. I like the Syracuse and Pitt moves. I think UConn would be great for basketball and their football team is usually decent. But I don't want Rutgers. Up until a few years ago the football team was abyssmal. Their basketball teams are average. I'd go after West Virginia. Screw the NY/NJ market. WVA would make more sense and the football team is always good as is the basketball team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLredskin Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Why add a team or 2 and be the 3rd or 4th best football conference when you can steal from the Big East and become thee best basketball conference by miles. The football team fans will not like it (FSU and VATech), but what they fail to realize is the ACC is historically a basketball conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I wonder if academics is partially a euphemism for "has enough prep school kids to play lacrosse/field hockey/crew." If we want to tie it back to athletics, one thing that a lot of "high standards" ACC schools have is a connection to certain private schools and certain sports, that may not be played at other big state schools. If you want to look past football and basketball, having a competitive conference for soccer, tennis, golf, etc. will correlate to a certain extent with academic standards. ftr, wvu has a pretty solid soccer program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 So this greed is okay to the NCAA but a free tattoo is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 So this greed is okay to the NCAA but a free tattoo is wrong Shut the **** up. You are trolling. Get a ****ing life. Come up with something else to talk about. ------------------------------------------ Back to the thread. Does this put the ACC as the #1 basketball conference in the country? Certainly brings us closer to the BE, I considered Pitt/Cuse to be pretty much 2 of the top 3-5 programs, with UConn being #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I love the idea of 4 mega conferences and i wrote that in the 4th post of this thread and then everyone repeated what i did in the same exact words later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Shut the **** up.You are trolling. Get a ****ing life. Come up with something else to talk about. ------------------------------------------ Back to the thread. Does this put the ACC as the #1 basketball conference in the country? Certainly brings us closer to the BE, I considered Pitt/Cuse to be pretty much 2 of the top 3-5 programs, with UConn being #1. I'm not even talking about the BCS.http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6988839/greed-hypocrisy-spell-end-big-east-know-college-basketball Money, all about money. And BTW, the answer is yes. Duke, UNC, Pitt, Cuse, maybe UCONN? On paper at least seems to be tops. ---------- Post added September-19th-2011 at 07:49 PM ---------- And also, I just hate seeing these conferences broken up. Colorado and Utah to the P10? That's fine (and makes geographic sense). TCU to the BE? Geographically odd, but kudos to TCU to moving to an AQ conference. Nebraska to the B10? Now it's getting odd. The most recent move? Now it's getting ridiculous. Something about it just seems wrong. So :finger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Why add a team or 2 and be the 3rd or 4th best football conference when you can steal from the Big East and become thee best basketball conference by miles. The football team fans will not like it (FSU and VATech), but what they fail to realize is the ACC is historically a basketball conference. football is king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 football is kingEven for dominant in hoops yet mediocre in football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 football is king Agreed. But if you know you just aren't going to match up with 2-3 other conferences in football, it's better to be clearly the best basketball conference than to be the best in neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 football is kingInteresting thread from another board. linkOne poster there wrote: The current contracts for the SEC were both signed in 2008. CBS is 800 million for 15 years, or about 55 million per year. ESPN is 2.25 billion also over 15 years, or about 150 million per year. Breaking this down is slightly over 17 million per school per year. The 2 Big 12 contracts were signed in 2010 for 13 years.....so they end at the same time the SEC contracts do. FOX is paying them 1.17 billion, or about 90 million per year.......ESPN is paying them 780 million, or about 60 million per year. This breaks down to 15 million per school per year. The difference is that the split is in this order with the first getting the most, and eveyone else getting less: Texas 1, Oklahoma 2, A & M 3, Texas Tech 4, everyone else 5 - 10. The exact amounts aren't published, but it is thought that Texas is getting around 18-19 million and the bottom 6 are getting 12-14 million. This is what's causing the problem. None of this includes bowls or championship game revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 12-14 vs. 18-19? Funny, in terms of college football revenue $6M doesn't strike me as terribly big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Better info from Nov. 6, 2008, http://www.slate.com/id/2203927/ These are the average revenues for schools in the six major conferences: SEC: $38.2 million Big Ten: $33.7 million Big 12: $24.8 million Pac-10: $22.9 million ACC: $19.5 million Big East: $15.2 million ---------- Post added September-19th-2011 at 08:24 PM ---------- More info http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2010/07/taking-a-closer-look-at-conference-television-contracts.html SEC ESPN/15 years/$2.25 billion/Ends 2023-24 CBS/15 years/$825 million/Ends 2023-24 Big Ten Big Ten Network/25 years/$2.8 billion/2031-32 ABC/ESPN/10 years/$1 billion/2016 CBS/10 years/$20 million/2018-19* *For basketball ACC ABC/ESPN/12 years/$1.86 billion/2022-23 Raycom Sports/10 years/$300 million/2010-11 Big 12 ABC/ESPN/Eight years/$480 million/2015-16 Fox Sports Net/Four years/$78 million/2011-12 Pac-10 ABC/ESPN/Five years/$125 million/2011-12 Fox Sports Net/Five years/$97 million/2011-12 ABC/ESPN/Six years/$52.5 million/2011-12* *For basketball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLredskin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 football is king I agree, but in these markets professional football is king. Panthers over all those NC teams, Redskins over VA/MD teams, Steelers over Pittsburgh, Giants/Jets over Cuse, and Falcons over GT. I'm not sure about Clemson and those Florida schools. Look at the revenue split between conferences. Big East/ACC has the lowest, because we love our professional teams more than college football teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I agree, but in these markets professional football is king. Panthers over all those NC teams, Redskins over VA/MD teams, Steelers over Pittsburgh, Giants/Jets over Cuse, and Falcons over GT. I'm not sure about Clemson and those Florida schools. Look at the revenue split between conferences. Big East/ACC has the lowest, because we love our professional teams more than college football teams.After some Googling, I'm struck by how SEC football beats ACC football and basketball combined in $. Yay for lower academic standards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 http://twitter.com/DickieV/statuses/115962964472893441 Absolutely - no doubt ACC becomes # 1 in hoops. If Schools can bolt to other leagues-players SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TRANSFER WITHOUT PENALTY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLredskin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 http://twitter.com/DickieV/statuses/115962964472893441 What do you call the exit fee and 27 months wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Why add a team or 2 and be the 3rd or 4th best football conference when you can steal from the Big East and become thee best basketball conference by miles. The football team fans will not like it (FSU and VATech), but what they fail to realize is the ACC is historically a basketball conference. Seriously, when are you people going to realize that basketball plays no part in any of this? None. Not a bit. If basketball mattered, why is the Big East falling apart? ---------- Post added September-20th-2011 at 08:17 AM ---------- Agreed.But if you know you just aren't going to match up with 2-3 other conferences in football, it's better to be clearly the best basketball conference than to be the best in neither. No, it's not. Being big enough in football to get a major sponsor for your championship game, to guarantee your BCS money, and to get 7 or 8 teams into bowl games matters a lot more than basketball. Again, the Big East is probably the best college basketball conference ever and has its championship game in a sold out Madison Square Garden every year. And it's falling apart. ---------- Post added September-20th-2011 at 08:22 AM ---------- This is all you need to know about basketball. Maryland has $10 million a year in basketball revenue. Vanderbilt has $18 million in football revenue. Kentucky football generates $8 million more than Kentucky basketball. Kansas may be left without a conference when all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Seriously' date=' when are you people going to realize that basketball plays no part in any of this? None. Not a bit. If basketball mattered, why is the Big East falling apart?No, it's not. Being big enough in football to get a major sponsor for your championship game, to guarantee your BCS money, and to get 7 or 8 teams into bowl games matters a lot more than basketball. Again, the Big East is probably the best college basketball conference ever and has its championship game in a sold out Madison Square Garden every year. And it's falling apart. This is all you need to know about basketball. Maryland has $10 million a year in basketball revenue. Vanderbilt has $18 million in football revenue. Kentucky football generates $8 million more than Kentucky basketball. Kansas may be left without a conference when all is said and done.[/quote'] All of this is true. Football is king. End of story. Which is, again, why I seriously question Swofford in adding schools like Syracuse and Pitt, unless they're the first pieces needed for some sort of bigger plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-sources-say Sources: Big 12 mulling Big East merger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-sources-say That would make for a really dreadful football conference, outside of WVU (at which point I'd probably feel bad for them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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