Concern about John Beck's arm? Washington Post

[GibbsFactor]

Every tweet i've read is just an extension of what we saw last pre-season. The highlights are on youtube.

Anything further than about 30 yards is a duck or way overthrown.

It'll take 2 regular season games before defenses figured that out and commited the house up front. Bye bye running and short game.

Beck's not going to get it done and will not be starting game 1.

Did you notice how the offense was run under Grossman? lot's of motion, screens, etc... Beck can work because of the offense. McNabb was all about going long.

[Rodriggo]

Does the Fed Ex scoreboard register triple digits?

:ols: HAHAHA!!! :ols:

[Jericho]

Every tweet i've read is just an extension of what we saw last pre-season. The highlights are on youtube.

Anything further than about 30 yards is a duck or way overthrown.

It'll take 2 regular season games before defenses figured that out and commited the house up front. Bye bye running and short game.

Beck's not going to get it done and will not be starting game 1.

I think that Beck is not the answer, but let's be honest. How many times a game does a team actually throw the ball more than 30 yards downfield? 1? 2?

[THE GREAT I AM]

So does this mean that Shanny could get the axe if Beck stink's it up and we go 1-15?

Danny will not be happy

Trust me if we loose more games than last year he is GONE!!!

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

Here's a 70 yard pass thrown from Beck:

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Problem with this video is that it's basically a Hail Mary pass--it's not representative of real arm strength, which is being able to throw the ball far without morphing into a javelin thrower. Also, this wasn't a very accurate throw either.

I'll be shocked if he's starting Week 1. Not only is his accuracy suspect, but he was a very awkward, side-arm-ish delivery. He will get a billion balls batted down at the LOS in the NFL.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm in a weird zen state over this season. I am going to be oddly entertained if everyone is shocked - SHOCKED - that John Beck ain't that accurate.

[monkeezgob]

I'm reserving judgement until he is has enough time to work on his timing, and becoming comfortable with his wr's. If we're still talking about this going into the 4th preseason game then I'll allow worry to start sinking in. Give the guy a chance, I say. He hasn't been on the field in years.

And there's obviously a reason for that. We think this is the guy to get it done? That's not hope, that's just clutching at straws.

[Cool as Crud]

I just wanted to keep everyone around here grounded about Beck.

Bless your heart.:laugh::hysterical::rotflmao:

I'd like to remind everyone in the DC area that it's really hot outside too. Also, drinking red bull does not actually give you wings.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Did you notice how the offense was run under Grossman? lot's of motion, screens, etc... Beck can work because of the offense. McNabb was all about going long.

Starting D co-ordinators will figure that out so fast. They'll commit everything up front and kill us.

Go watch Elway's highlights. Same offense... lots of deep connections.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Did you notice how the offense was run under Grossman? lot's of motion, screens, etc... Beck can work because of the offense. McNabb was all about going long.

And somehow McNabb hit zero deep balls to receivers in stride.

The Shanahan's offense does use a lot of motion, a lot of boot legs, and a lot of throwing on the run. Beck is supposed to be able to throw while moving better than Grossman. This should allow us to hit receivers that we couldn't before since corners will now find themselves on the wrong side of the guy they're marking.

[Cool as Crud]

Trust me if we loose more games than last year he is GONE!!!

What makes you so sure? How do you know Dan Snyder hasn't given him the old *wink wink* about tanking for Luck? Not saying Shanny would do it, but why should we "trust you" that Shanny would be "GONE!!!"?

[Rudechain]

Ok, so his arm is not Jay Cutler strong. But I saw the video of the 70 yard pass it looked good. I watched film and the guy does very well on short and intermediate passes with some zip on the ball.

I wonder just how long does he actually have to throw the ball in an actual game on a regular basis. Personally, I think the overwhelming majority of his passes will be in the air for 30 yards or less. If a defense does stack up close leaving the deep zone open, just how deep is that zone? Is it over thirty yards, over twenty? (seriously just asking)

Won't the offense still be able to find seams and exploit mismatches in the secondary? I thought accuracy and timing with the receivers would be of greater importance than simply chucking it deep. The coaching staff likes or is exclaiming that they like Beck and what he brings to the table. They did give him a multi-year deal last season. (3 yrs for 3.51 million with 100k bonus and salaries of 2011: 800k 2012: 1 million) It's not a big contract, but he's still on the team so there must be something there.

Which leads to the question: In this offense, what do Kyle and Mike value higher, a strong arm, or accuracy and timing?

[GaryGreenMonk]

Maybe this well help... I ask everyone watch these 2 videos in succession;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb5im-AHOis Grossman's first NFL start for us against the cowboys... 4TD's 2 Int's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B17arflJp9Y&feature=related John Beck vs. Cards.. pre-season.. against 2nd/3rd string defense.

John Beck btw did not throw a single TD in either outting last pre-season. The only reciever he got any production out of was Austin.

Main thing I want you to notice is speed of play.

Let me just say that DeMarcus Ware would eat Beck for lunch and probably kill him.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Bless your heart.:laugh::hysterical::rotflmao:

I'd like to remind everyone in the DC area that it's really hot outside too. Also, drinking red bull does not actually give you wings.

explain how I flew to work today then.

[The Bounty Hunter #21]

The funny thing is Shanny is staking his reputation on the guy who hasn't played in 4 years.

It's going to be a long season.

I'm not quite sure how you can view this upcoming season as a make or break one for Shanahan. What's so wrong with dealing with Beck or Grossman for one season until we draft a QB after? This is what happens when a team makes a real attempt at rebuilding, long seasons occur in result and if you don't have the stomach for it then I have the slightest clue what to tell you. Snyder fired Marty prematurely however the position we're in now is alot different and it would make absolutely zero sense for Shanahan to get fired if Beck doesn't turn out and we end up with a horrid record this season, don't expect a playoff run this season and a good amount of loses and that's ok under the rebuilding process.

[Bang]

Well, fourth and fifth hand knowledge (144 characters worth) of 2 days of practice is enough to convince me as well.

Fire everyone!

~Bang

[Mad Mike]

Look...all things given and understood (may that phrase be met with comprehension ) about what we're going to do, and is fine to do, in terms of churning through every fart and hiccup on the field at this time...there are few (really, I'd say none) amateur fans or sports reporters or anyone else other than the coaching staff, that at this point are going to be able to parse anything remotely definitive about what can be expected from watching the fist days of delayed practice activity. It's not that good guesses, or decent projections based on all past and present info on a player are out of the realm of possibility, it's just something to keep in mind while we all do what we're going to do anyway.

Couldn't you just have said that we as fans cant judge a player accurately based on a few throws in an early practice?

[SWFLSkins]

Starting D co-ordinators will figure that out so fast. They'll commit everything up front and kill us.

Go watch Elway's highlights. Same offense... lots of deep connections.

Don't think so. Let them commit everything up front as long as Beck plays smart and can hit some medium stuff in stride, like say Moss out of the slot into a seam or Cooley/Davis over the LBers and under the backfield he could pick them apart. That is what this offense takes a thinker, McNabb did not fully run this offense. I thought he was going to be able too, heck he could'nt hit the long stuff either. At least Beck is able to run the playbook.

[Mad Mike]

Maybe this well help... I ask everyone watch these 2 videos in succession;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb5im-AHOis Grossman's first NFL start for us against the cowboys... 4TD's 2 Int's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B17arflJp9Y&feature=related John Beck vs. Cards.. pre-season.. against 2nd/3rd string defense.

John Beck btw did not throw a single TD in either outting last pre-season. The only reciever he got any production out of was Austin.

Main thing I want you to notice is speed of play.

Let me just say that DeMarcus Ware would eat Beck for lunch and probably kill him.

John Beck was signed Aug 2nd last year. He had all of a couple of weeks to get ready for those games. Speed of play? He was doing good to remember the play call with that much experience in Shanahans offense. To judge him based on those games is just silly.

[Rudechain]

I'm not quite sure how you can view this upcoming season as a make or break one for Shanahan. What's so wrong with dealing with Beck or Grossman for one season until we draft a QB after? This is what happens when a team makes a real attempt at rebuilding, long seasons occur in result and if you don't have the stomach for it then I have the slightest clue what to tell you. Snyder fired Marty prematurely however the position we're in now is alot different and it would make absolutely zero sense for Shanahan to get fired if Beck doesn't turn out and we end up with a horrid record this season, don't expect a playoff run this season and a good amount of loses and that's ok under the rebuilding process.

I can't see how this is a make or break season either. It's a rebuild even if teams hate to use that word.

They gave Beck a very cheap multi-year deal last season. They can bring back Rex still, and I think you have enough stability there between the two of them.

The team could not fill every hole this year. When the long term option is not available, you go with a short term alternative while maintaining the long team franchise goals of building a team that is competitive year in and year out.

I suspect you will see a team that competes hard week in and week out and the young talent will improve as the season goes along.

[GaryGreenMonk]

John Beck was signed Aug 2nd last year. He had all of a couple of weeks to get ready for those games. Speed of play? He was doing good to remember the play call with that much experience in Shanahans offense. To judge him based on those games is just silly.

It would be silly if we weren't hearing the same crap coming out of camp now that he's been with the team for a full year.

[The Bounty Hunter #21]

I can't see how this is a make or break season either. It's a rebuild even if teams hate to use that word.

They gave Beck a very cheap multi-year deal last season. They can bring back Rex still, and I think you have enough stability there between the two of them.

The team could not fill every hole this year. When the long term option is not available, you go with a short term alternative while maintaining the long team franchise goals of building a team that is competitive year in and year out.

I suspect you will see a team that competes hard week in and week out and the young talent will improve as the season goes along.

Agreed. I'm really pumped and excited to watch our young players compete and grow week by week while watching some of the young veterans we've acquired this offseason really show that they're committed to steering this ship in the right direction. I think we all would love to see Beck succeed however that's not something that has to be such a major factor like it would be the end of the world if he bombs knowing that we didn't overpay for a QB like we did with McNabb.

[jsbaugh]

If you watched Beck in college he lived off the deep pass but they were timing routes. His claim to fame was 70% accuracy in college and throwing a nice deep ball.

If you read todays camp report he dropped a couple of long balls on the money. One bad day throwing doesnt mean he cant throw the ball. Some of you need to chill out.

Go watch his highlights from BYU and get back to me.

[Brotherz]

Look...all things given and understood (may that phrase be met with comprehension ) about what we're going to do, and is fine to do, in terms of churning through every fart and hiccup on the field at this time...there are few (really, I'd say none) amateur fans or sports reporters or anyone else other than the coaching staff, that at this point are going to be able to parse anything remotely definitive about what can be expected from watching the fist days of delayed practice activity. It's not that good guesses, or decent projections based on all past and present info on a player are out of the realm of possibility, it's just something to keep in mind while we all do what we're going to do anyway.

Exactly! I have seen youtube videos of Beck throwing a 70 Yard bomb in a college game just 5 years ago. Go into youtube and search for "JohnBeck 70 Yard pass". He didn't always have a "noodle" arm. IF (and I will still say it is an "if" despite a bunch of fans and media members judging one practice) he has a weak arm its of recent vintage and quite frankly he is only 30 and I think he has probably been working out hard. I still find it very hard to believe his arm is that weak because it wasn't a knock on him when he was drafted. We are so afraid of this kid that we are analyzing every single throw in the first week of training camp to justify those fears.

I know Shanny has gotten a serious reputation adjustment since being here, but damn I don't think I can say he doesn't know QB's. He screwed the pooch on Mcnabb. Can't really debate that. But Cutler, (obvoiusly his work with Elway who I know he didn't draft), as well as guys like Jake Plummer tells me he knows what he is looking for. I don't for a second believe in the "tank job" theory. I think Shanny probably thinks that the kid has a decent shot at being serviceable and if he doesn't turn out to earn the spot QB will priority #1 next year when we have far less holes to fill. I am fine with that. THAT is an actual PLAN!!

He passed on Blaine Gabbert. He passed on other QB's when he took Jenkins in the 2nd. He may be an egomaniac but he is not an idiot. He knows what it will look like if Blaine Gabbert is the next Drew Brees and he traded and took Kerrigan. He knows what that will say about him after the MCnabb debacle. He is not stupid. He knows something. He knew something when he traded for Beck. He knew something when he extended Beck. He knew something when he passed on Gabbert, and when he didn't pull the trigger on orton or anyone else for that matter.

You have to believe the ridiculous "tank job" theory to get a college QB who he still not be able to get next year depending on where we finish and who could have a bad year, or have a career ending injury etc. all while his job security wanes substantially OR you have to believe that Mike has already assessed this situation and believes the guy that Steve Young, Ron Jaworski and Bill Parcells ultimately was one of the best collegge QB's coming out of that draft is capable of taking a shot with under these circumstances while we get younger and build everything around him. It may not work out. There may be a built in line of thinking that "we aren't winning the Superbowl this year regardless and if the last piece we need is a QB so be it" but I just don't see Mike Shannahan putting completely ineptitude out there this year. I think Beck is going to be ok. If he isn't we will have Grossman who will also be serviceable this year. We will be as strong at the QB position this year in this system with either of those guys as we were last year with Mcnabb. These two guys won't beat Mcnabb in a scrambling drill but they probably listen better, are more mechanically sound and capable of making better decisions IN THIS SYSTEM than Mcnabb was able to WILLING to be IN THIS SYSTEM.

Don't look now but we have a coaching staff with a plan. That plan involves having guys who are hungry to win, who will listen to coaching, who have talent, who are young and who will play within the confines of systems that win. We have a defense that is being molded after Pittsburgh. We have an offense that is a mixture of shanny stretch runs with Kyles Houston Offense. The guys being brought in right now are designed for the system. Relax, sit back and watch. How quickly we forget swinging gate. This team will be more disciplined. This team will be more professional. This team will be younger and hungrier and without the divas. They will be professionals with a purpose. This includes Beck. Give it a chance. Happiness is about managing expectations. Expect improvement and you won't be dissappointed. Expect a deep playoff run and drive yourself crazy with every pass in training camp that isn't right on the money for a TD.

[Cool as Crud]

explain how I flew to work today then.

My guess? Redskins One. it hasn't been used otherwise lately.