ACW Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03pakistan.html From another thread; thought this deserved it's own. For nearly a decade, the United States has paid Pakistan more than $1 billion a year for counterterrorism operations whose chief aim was the killing or capture of Bin Laden, who slipped across the border from Afghanistan after the American invasion.The circumstance of Bin Laden’s death may not only jeopardize that aid, but will also no doubt deepen suspicions that Pakistan has played a double game, and perhaps even knowingly harbored the Qaeda leader. Bin Laden was not killed in the remote and relatively lawless tribal regions, where the United States has run a campaign of drone attacks aimed at Qaeda militants, where he was long rumored to have taken refuge, and where the reach of the Pakistani government is limited. Rather, he was killed in Abbottabad, a city of about 500,000, in a large and highly secured compound that, a resident of the city said, sits virtually adjacent to the grounds of a military academy. In an ironic twist, the academy was visited just last month by the Pakistani military chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, where he proclaimed that Pakistan had “cracked” the forces of terrorism, an assessment that was greeted with skepticism in Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I notice both India and Afghanistan have used the news to bash Pakistan, lol. Karzai also said the war on terror shouldn't be in Afghanistan, but in Pakistan. ---------- Post added May-2nd-2011 at 06:40 AM ---------- http://twitter.com/#!/Reuters FLASH: Blast in northwest Pakistan police compound, one wounded - Police 41 seconds ago Hmmm. There have been more than a few bombings in Pakistan the past month though. EDIT: 6:59 am est FLASH: Pakistan Taliban threaten attacks on Pakistani leaders, army and U.S. after bin Laden's killing - Taliban spokesman4 minutes ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's a joke we consider Pakistan to be an ally. The word just does not seem to mean much anymore. I'm glad we're forging closer ties with India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Jack Bauer will get to the bottom of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I found an easy $7.5 billion dollars worth of budget cuts: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02pakistan.html A multibillion-dollar aid plan that the Obama administration hoped would win over Pakistanis and buttress the weak civilian government is foundering because Washington’s fears of Pakistani corruption and incompetence has slowed disbursal of the money, undermining a fundamental goal of the United States in Pakistan, officials from both nations say.The aid program promoted by Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, promised Pakistan $7.5 billion over five years, much of it delivered through the civilian government. But so inadequate is Pakistan’s civilian bureaucracy and so rife are United States fears of corruption in the government that American officials, constricted by layers of their own rules, have struggled to find safe places to actually invest the money available. Instead of polishing the tarnished image of America with a suspicious, even hostile, Pakistani public and government, the plan has resulted in bitterness and a sense of broken promises. That's got to be DOA now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The mother lode of the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 **** suspicions of Pakistan. Go after them hard for harbouring Evil. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's funny to me. I find myself happy to rid of Osama Bin Laden, but I share little of the jubilation I see and hear about on the TV and radio. In fact, I feel a little sad to be happy about his death. Maybe it's a sadness to see our citizens think his death is one we should cheer, one which should be greeted by the singing of the Star Spangled Banner and chanting USA at the White House. I think my hard time reconciling the way I feel about his death stems from a deep seeded belief the U.S. should be about more than death and our ability to deliver it. The true nature of an idea should be what progress it inspires, what new comes from it. When I think of the U.S., I think of an ideal made reality. I think of all we have built, all whose lives have been improved, all the technology, all the lives saved, and all we have inspired to pursue liberty and freedom. These are the true ways in which I would measure us as a society, and yet I find myself cheering on the inside for the death of a man on the other side of the world because he inspired others to hurt us over a decade ago. Had we spent half the money we spent chasing him instead on rebuilding the twin towers, we could have had a lasting marvel. Instead we have thousands dead and billions spent, but we did get our guy. I should probably be happier. After all, as a country we paid a lot for this feeling. I just wish I didn't get the feeling we need parental supervision as a country. I think of what I have to tell my screaming daughter after my son nocks down her block tower, "Did you have fun building it? Have you screamed at him for longer than it would have taken you to build it again? You got out the blocks to build, so build. Your brother is too young to understand the greater challenge is in the building, not the destruction. Destruction is the easy road for those who don't know how to build. Maybe in time he will learn. Maybe you could show him." Maybe we will watch and learn. Maybe I can feel better just knowing we might start trying to build now. The target of our wrath has left our world. Good riddance. May he find some of the peace he took from our lives in his next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-india-pakistan-idUSTRE7412MQ20110502 India says bin Laden death raises "grave concern" over Pakistan(Reuters) - India seized on the killing of Osama bin Laden deep inside Pakistan on Monday, saying it showed once again that its long-standing rival remained a haven for militants. New Delhi's stern response came weeks after the leaders of the two sides took steps to rebuild ties using the goodwill generated by a cricket match between their teams which they watched together in the northern Indian town of Mohali. President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death at the hands of U.S. forces in the summer resort of Abbottabad, 60 km (35 miles) north of the capital Islamabad. "We take note with grave concern that part of the statement in which President Obama said that the fire fight in which Osama Bin Laden was killed took place in Abbotabad "deep inside Pakistan"," Indian Home Minister P.Chidambaram said in a statement. "This fact underlines our concern that terrorists belonging to different organisations find sanctuary in Pakistan." The Indian government has long tried to convince Washington to get tougher on Pakistan, especially after the 2008 Mumbai attacks, while pressing its own credentials as the region's only reliable democracy. "India has been making this observation for a long time, that the Pakistani establishment is providing support to terrorist groups while keeping the denial process in play," said Uday Bhaskar, former director of the New Delhi-based Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses. "They play both sides to the middle. This shows more of the same," he said. "Their support to terrorism as a strategic option vis-à-vis India and the U.S. needs to be smoked out." Relations between the two nuclear-armed rivals were shattered by the three-day slaughter in India's financial capital in 2008, which has sometimes been described as India's version of the Al Qaeda attack on the Twin Towers in New York. India blamed the attacks on militants operating from Pakistan in collusion with the country's spy agency, the ISI. It has since slammed its South Asian neighbor for not doing enough to crack down on the perpetrators of the attacks which killed 166 people. Islamabad has denied involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I hate saying this, but I really would like to see at least photos of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's funny to me. I find myself happy to rid of Osama Bin Laden, but I share little of the jubilation I see and hear about on the TV and radio. In fact, I feel a little sad to be happy about his death. Maybe it's a sadness to see our citizens think his death is one we should cheer, one which should be greeted by the singing of the Star Spangled Banner and chanting USA at the White House.I think my hard time reconciling the way I feel about his death stems from a deep seeded belief the U.S. should be about more than death and our ability to deliver it. The true nature of an idea should be what progress it inspires, what new comes from it. When I think of the U.S., I think of an ideal made reality. I think of all we have built, all whose lives have been improved, all the technology, all the lives saved, and all we have inspired to pursue liberty and freedom. These are the true ways in which I would measure us as a society, and yet I find myself cheering on the inside for the death of a man on the other side of the world because he inspired others to hurt us over a decade ago. Had we spent half the money we spent chasing him instead on rebuilding the twin towers, we could have had a lasting marvel. Instead we have thousands dead and billions spent, but we did get our guy. I should probably be happier. After all, as a country we paid a lot for this feeling. I just wish I didn't get the feeling we need parental supervision as a country. I think of what I have to tell my screaming daughter after my son nocks down her block tower, "Did you have fun building it? Have you screamed at him for longer than it would have taken you to build it again? You got out the blocks to build, so build. Your brother is too young to understand the greater challenge is in the building, not the destruction. Destruction is the easy road for those who don't know how to build. Maybe in time he will learn. Maybe you could show him." Maybe we will watch and learn. Maybe I can feel better just knowing we might start trying to build now. The target of our wrath has left our world. Good riddance. May he find some of the peace he took from our lives in his next. I don't see it that way. We're celebrating the fact that the most evil **** on the planet is dead. Not just any ol' guy. This guy has been responsible for quite a bit of global mayhem. The fact he's dead means we're all a bit safer, and that is to be celebrated. He had opportunities to give himself up, he had opportunities to try and atone for what he did. he chose not to, and he got what he deserved. Justice can be cheered. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I hate saying this, but I really would like to see at least photos of the body. You do have a point since the photo the media is using to substantiate his death is a fake (I guess) then lets see the "original" LONG FORM" death certificate. :pfft: :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Gbear, the target of mine has not left the world,nor does it end with Osama. You don't ignore a cancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I don't really see how that's possible. I mean come on people this is pakistan, who suspects them of anything? Anybody who reads the paper pretty much has all their suspicions confirmed by this point... They sold nuclear bomb technology to N. Korea, Iran and Lybia. They refused to turn over the father of their nuclear program, Abdul Qadeer Khan who was selling the technolgy to our worst enemies. Pakistan did agreed to put Abdul Khan under house arrest. House arrest which lasted all of about 4 years. Pakistan uses terrorism as an instrument of their foreign policy and have for decades They were one of the few countries on earth who recognized and gave aid to the Taliban. They unlike Iraq did have operational ties to Al Quada prior and after 911. Our own military has been saying Osama was in Pakistan for the majority of the last decade... We just didn't realize Osama was in their capital Islamibad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Are we still trying to say the Taliban has nothing to do with Alqaeda: Because they seem perfectly comfortable disproving it: FLASH: Pakistan Taliban threaten attacks on Pakistani leaders, army and U.S. after bin Laden's killing - Taliban spokesman 4 minutes ago Pakistan is guilty of knowingly haboring Bin laden this entire time, he needed treatment and this is why he couln't have been in a cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Are we still trying to say the Taliban has nothing to do with Alqaeda: Because they seem perfectly comfortable disproving it: FLASH: Pakistan Taliban threaten attacks on Pakistani leaders, army and U.S. after bin Laden's killing - Taliban spokesman 4 minutes ago Pakistan is guilty of knowingly haboring Bin laden this entire time, he needed treatment and this is why he couln't have been in a cave. I don't think the Taliban were involved with 911. I could be wrong but they are more akin to a group of illiterate goat herders, they don't have the inteligence or the polish to be international terrorists. The thing which put them in our cross hairs is in the late 1998 when Bin Laudin killed a few hundred people in terrorist attacks on our embasies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. we chased him out of a handful of countries and he came to roost in Afghanistan. We told the Taliban to give him up and they refused. So we told the Taliban if you don't give him up then you will be held responsible for any crimes he commits. That's why for the United States the Taliban is synonimous with Al Quada, because they sheltered him and thus enabled him to commit his crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 You do have a point since the photo the media is using to substantiate his death is a fake (I guess) then lets see the "original" LONG FORM" death certificate. :pfft: :pfft: Honestly hadn't seen a report with a photo of his body, just the chopper on fire at the base he was holed up at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Watch who celebrates his life and honors trash http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/02/hamas-leader-condemns-killing-usama-bin-laden/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's funny to me. I find myself happy to rid of Osama Bin Laden, but I share little of the jubilation I see and hear about on the TV and radio. In fact, I feel a little sad to be happy about his death. Yeah, I'm not happy or sad. It just feels like something that needed to be done. I guess I don't believe that his death makes us safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I don't think the Taliban were involved with 911. I could be wrong but they are more akin to a group of illiterate goat herders, they don't have the inteligence or the polish to be international terrorists. The thing which put them in our cross hairs is in the late 1998 when Bin Laudin killed a few hundred people in terrorist attacks on our embasies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. we chased him out of a handful of countries and he came to roost in Afghanistan. We told the Taliban to give him up and they refused. So we told the Taliban if you don't give him up then you will be held responsible for any crimes he commits.That's why for the United States the Taliban is synonimous with Al Quada. I thought they were synonmous with Alqaeda because they are willing to kill innocent women and children because UBL was caught/killed. AND: Their spokesman said there would be more. 99.97% of alqaeda had nothing to do ith 9/11. I put Pakistan leadership in the same boat as the Taliban at this point until shown otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Mardi, I think you hit one of my biggest reservations on the head. I'm just not sure killing him accomplished much in terms of our safety. Was he still in charge, and what does "in charge" mean? No doubt, it does feel good to have this figure head knocked off the international chess board. It just doesn't feel like a check mate on the cause or people who wish us ill. I wonder why we took him out. I would almost think knowing where he is and watching to whom he is talking might be worth more to us than the feel good of "justice." Maybe it is just my vengeful side, but I am not sure there is "justice" in this world for those like him. I gave up on the concept for those like him, rapists and serial killers. Nothing will balance the scales. All which is left is simply the use of him and his life as a tool. Though maybe killing him in Pakistan is a tool to show the world why we back away from their government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hell, Zawahiri may be MORE dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 gbear, I didn't feel jubilation this morning either. I was happy but almost immediately saddened by what happened almost 10 years ago. I know the reasoning behind the celebrations were as different as night and day, but I thought the footage from ground zero and near the White House today looked similar to the footage they showed of some Muslims celebrating the events of 9/11. From 10,000 feet, it probably looks almost identical in fact. After all, even the people celebrating that tragic day in 2001 had to believe they were celebrating for a good reason, right? In their opinion, the battle being brought to the US was a good thing and was retribution for SOMETHING. I don't know...maybe that doesn't make any sense and I'm certainly very satisfied with the idea that OBL is dead and burning in Hell. I guess I just would think that it would be a more somber, reflective moment in our country since it, in a lot of ways, closes a decade-long life-altering chapter in our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The trump card in Pakistan is always their nuclear weapons program. If you walk away from Afghanistan, you create a vacuum that is filled by extremists, who in ten years can launch an operation on the scale of 9/11. If you walk away from Pakistan, you create a vacuum that is filled by extremists, who in one year can kill tens of millions of Indians and put nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists. It's a far more dangerous situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hell, Zawahiri may be MORE dangerous. I agree with this. Zawahiri was the operational brains of the original AlQueda. He's definitely next on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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