DDP: Approx 8 sections of seating removed in upper deck endzone - more removed as of 2012 DDP, LL Endzone in 2013

[Popeman38]

The first shot is the most telling. It looks this way in every corner. I will have to compare this to pics I have from the first preseason game last year to gauge the extent of the seat removal from 2011 to now. It looks like only 16 of the original 54 sections of the upper deck have not had any seats removed. These are the sideline sections that go from goal line to goal line.

I counted 10 sections per sideline that were untouched. 2 sections on each side have about 6 seats all the way to the top with the rest above row 12-14 missing. 34 of 54 sections have had seats removed.

[FedEx Nosebleed]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I happened to be kicking around stubhub and saw MANY tickets for sale that are in rows that no longer exist. This includes seats in rows that were removed before LAST season -- for example row 29 of Sec. 413 or row 25 of Sec. 442. Is stubhub still the official re-sale partner of the Redskins?

Shouldn't the team have informed them which seats have physically been removed from the stadium so that people can't list them for sale any more?

This also begs the question of who exactly has listed these seats for sale, thinking they'll be able to deliver come the season.

[mike tatertot]

wow,, never been to d.c. but have seen my SKINS play at other places,, great post JOE.

[Joe_328]

I took some video, I'm trying to get it from my phone to YouTube, I will post it if it will upload. The video shows a majority of the stadium.

---------- Post added May-2nd-2012 at 06:46 AM ----------

Most of the upper level...

[tshile]

Snapped some quick pics and some video of the uppers.

Looks like more seats have been removed. (Endzone to endzone) Both ends are symmetrical it seems like.

in the second picture is that of section 423? I can't tell if i'm seeing things or what...

if so then holy hell tey took out a LOT of seats compared to the first removal.

and also lol, my seats were removed in the original removal from the endzone areas and if that is indeed section 423 then my new seats were moved as well. just can't catch a break! Also explains why I may have been moved to the lower level...

---------- Post added May-2nd-2012 at 10:34 AM ----------

someone correct me where I'm wrong...

but it looks like 17 sections from each endzone have been reduced by half - making a total of 34 sections reduced by half.

it leaves 18 (or maybe 17 or maybe 19, i may have miscounted) untouched and full.

Which means they've essentially taken 2/3s of the upper bowl and reduced it by half?

Thats a lot of seats being removed over two years...

(please correct me where my math is wrong)

[Crazy Levi]

Can't really tell what's going on with the loge from these photos. Any work or seats removed?

[ComManDersFan57]

I took some video, I'm trying to get it from my phone to YouTube, I will post it if it will upload. The video shows a majority of the stadium.

---------- Post added May-2nd-2012 at 06:46 AM ----------

Most of the upper level...

Thanks for the video. I was moved last year since my seats were taken out. Looks like my new seats are still there.

[RFKFedEx]

Can't really tell what's going on with the loge from these photos. Any work or seats removed?

The game viewing chairs in the loge levels were still in place from what I could see at my perch down in the club seats. There's one story of scaffolding set up behind the seats in each loge level. It was hard to conclude anything as to what they're actually doing in there.

[Cameron]

I have to say, I don't get why this is all such a mystery. If the GM's office doesn't know how the engineering might pan out, or if it is awaiting tricky county approvals or permits, or if it just doesn't feel like talking, they still could still say any such thing in the name of curiosity.

None of it affects my section, but I still am confused (don't get me wrong, not bothered per se, but simply confused-- I see a missed opportunity to tweet, pinterest, four square, like, or any of a number of other methods of communication). Pro football is an entertainment business, therefore communicating frequently with the fan base is a pretty good strategy for generating excitement and merchandise/ticket sales, no?

Oh well, what do I know. I myself am not one of the four most valuable sports franchises in the world.

[tshile]

I think they're quiet because the organization has been riding the coattails of the 80's for the last 15 years. The sell outs, the popularity, etc.

The rational behind all of this has to in some way involve incredibly low season ticket sales. They don't want to officially announce that yes, 20 years after the last super bowl people have stopped buying tickets like they used to. They don't want those questions in a press conference.

The 'mystery' is simply because they don't want to admit that they are pulling the seats because they can't fill them.

I mean think about it.. most teams would have just tarped over them, or let them sit empty... but we have that precious sell out streak (i mean honestly who gives a **** about that. it's been 20 years since the last trophy and you're tying to protect a sell out streak?) but instead they're actually ripping the seats out. Snyder can't handle the embarrassment of admitting he can't fill seats for the organization that's supposed to be the 2nd most valuable in the league, and that was riding a huge sell out streak when he bought it.

i think there might also be something going on with building a dome over it to host a super bowl.

[DC9]

I think they're quiet because the organization has been riding the coattails of the 80's for the last 15 years. The sell outs, the popularity, etc.

The rational behind all of this has to in some way involve incredibly low season ticket sales. They don't want to officially announce that yes, 20 years after the last super bowl people have stopped buying tickets like they used to. They don't want those questions in a press conference.

The 'mystery' is simply because they don't want to admit that they are pulling the seats because they can't fill them.

I mean think about it.. most teams would have just tarped over them, or let them sit empty... but we have that precious sell out streak (i mean honestly who gives a **** about that. it's been 20 years since the last trophy and you're tying to protect a sell out streak?) but instead they're actually ripping the seats out. Snyder can't handle the embarrassment of admitting he can't fill seats for the organization that's supposed to be the 2nd most valuable in the league, and that was riding a huge sell out streak when he bought it.

i think there might also be something going on with building a dome over it to host a super bowl.

But this is a league wide problem, not just here. The only true area that doesn't have issues with sellouts is Green Bay... and pick any square mile in the DC metro area and you have the entire population of Green Bay, WI. Only in Green Bay, you have NOTHING to do in the winter but hunt and go see the Packers play. It's the only gig in town and everyone wants a ticket. Not to mention the other 99% of the state of Wisconsin wants in on the goods, too.

The biggest problem with this stadium was the fact that it was too big. JKC, God rest his soul, was crazy at the tail end there. He wanted to bank on the success of the 80's and had no reason to believe that the Redskins wouldn't be back on top soon enough anyways and would have no problem selling out an 80-90k seat stadium.

I think 79k is still a bit much, but you are going to see a better fan experience. Yes, it gives the Lavar Arrington's and UnWise Mike's of the world something to talk about... but who cares? Really?

This is going to make it easier for me to take a piss in between quarters... I will be able to grab my son some Ben's Chili Bowl... I won't have to deal with as many opposing fans on my way down the ramps after the games... heck, if the FO is willing to take a knock for this (from whichever direction it comes from) I stand up and clap for them because it's not a big deal. It really isn't.

I'm sure there is a ticket list... I highly doubt that it's longer than about 40k names, and realistically of those 40k, you probably have about 12k who can afford it, but the others want to keep their names on the list just in case (how do I know this? Because that was me 5 years ago.)

The game day experience will improve, haters gonna hate, and blowhards are going to be idiots. It is what it is.

But I for one am excited and I appreciate you guys posting the pics from this year's DDP.

[roanoker]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I happened to be kicking around stubhub and saw MANY tickets for sale that are in rows that no longer exist. This includes seats in rows that were removed before LAST season -- for example row 29 of Sec. 413 or row 25 of Sec. 442. Is stubhub still the official re-sale partner of the Redskins?

Shouldn't the team have informed them which seats have physically been removed from the stadium so that people can't list them for sale any more?

This also begs the question of who exactly has listed these seats for sale, thinking they'll be able to deliver come the season.

Lol - those tickets will be sold to cowpile fans.

[tshile]

This is going to make it easier for me to take a piss in between quarters... I will be able to grab my son some Ben's Chili Bowl... I won't have to deal with as many opposing fans on my way down the ramps after the games... heck, if the FO is willing to take a knock for this (from whichever direction it comes from) I stand up and clap for them because it's not a big deal. It really isn't.

I'm sure there is a ticket list... I highly doubt that it's longer than about 40k names, and realistically of those 40k, you probably have about 12k who can afford it, but the others want to keep their names on the list just in case (how do I know this? Because that was me 5 years ago.)

The game day experience will improve, haters gonna hate, and blowhards are going to be idiots. It is what it is.

But I for one am excited and I appreciate you guys posting the pics from this year's DDP.

I agree - I'm happy to see them reduce capacity. I firmly believe 60-65k is where you should be. I want demand to go back up. I want my tickets to be easily sold for the true cost I have in them.

As it currently stands trying to sell my tickets to a redskins fan (not a friend, but someone on craiglist, on the street, etc) means taking a minimum 40% loss on what I paid for the ticket. Which is why I laugh at all the non season ticket holders that suggest we only sell the redskins fans...

So I'm happy to see it go down. But i'm not going to pretend that the redskins (as an organization) are. They'd much rather have every one of those seats filled because that means more $. Instead they're yanking seats out to avoid black outs.

Also, I think you're downplaying a serious concern Snyder probably has (and should have) with the idea of going from the sell out streak team to blacked out home games in the 13 years he's been in charge.

Thats pretty damning evidence that he's a ****ty owner...

[DC9]

I agree - I'm happy to see them reduce capacity. I firmly believe 60-65k is where you should be. I want demand to go back up. I want my tickets to be easily sold for the true cost I have in them.

As it currently stands trying to sell my tickets to a redskins fan (not a friend, but someone on craiglist, on the street, etc) means taking a minimum 40% loss on what I paid for the ticket. Which is why I laugh at all the non season ticket holders that suggest we only sell the redskins fans...

So I'm happy to see it go down. But i'm not going to pretend that the redskins (as an organization) are. They'd much rather have every one of those seats filled because that means more $. Instead they're yanking seats out to avoid black outs.

Also, I think you're downplaying a serious concern Snyder probably has (and should have) with the idea of going from the sell out streak team to blacked out home games in the 13 years he's been in charge.

Thats pretty damning evidence that he's a ****ty owner...

Anyone would want more money. It's foolish to think otherwise, so I agree with you there.

I don't put this one on Snyder. JKC built the stadium. Sure, Snyder hasn't done anything with it for the whole time he's been the owner, but the fact that he is means he is at least willing to make it right.

Check out Daron Rovelle from CNBC and now NBC Sports. The biggest issue is that the Sunday Ticket and the Redzone are KILLING season ticket sales across the NFL. Sales are down everywhere.

Has the fan experience sucked at FedEx? I don't know, I've only been going religiously for about three years now... but I've always had a good time save for the bathroom lines.

I am not a Snyder apologist, but the fact that he is morphing the look of the stadium as opposed to leaving the seats empty or tarping them off shows that he is willing to at least right the wrong (that wasn't his to begin with).

Let's be real, bad econominic times and a transient city are enough to make it hard to sell 90k tickets. The fact that the team has sucked for the last decade hasn't helped.

[tshile]

I agree with the bad economy and HDTV hurting it.

I also agree JKC shares a role in FedEx - he built it.

But snyder had the obstructed view seats built to cram another 15k seats into the stadium (i think it was 15k?). He's also been at the helm of a miserable organization, and he certainly deserves the blame for it. I think the team being awful is a huge factor in why the stadium is hard to fill. if the team was competing for super bowls fedex field would be full every home game.

at least, thats my opinion

[Joe_328]

I prefer a smaller, more "intimate" game day experience as well.

I love going to Capitals games. The smaller arena with a winning team leads to a great fanbase and experience.

I wouldn't mind a 50-60k seat stadium with a more fan-friendly or Redskins-personalized look (ie. Bucs..?). Instead of every square inch used for revenue purposes, I'd like to see areas used solely for team-pride - whatever that may be. Party decks are a good start.

Ultimately, we do need to win, and hopefully we begin a new era starting this year.

[TheLongshot]

I agree with the bad economy and HDTV hurting it.

I also agree JKC shares a role in FedEx - he built it.

But snyder had the obstructed view seats built to cram another 15k seats into the stadium (i think it was 15k?). He's also been at the helm of a miserable organization, and he certainly deserves the blame for it. I think the team being awful is a huge factor in why the stadium is hard to fill. if the team was competing for super bowls fedex field would be full every home game.

at least, thats my opinion

It is fair to say that. But, if it was JUST that, it wouldn't be justification in and of itself to remove seats. This is a pretty permanent solution. As people above has said, for a long time before this it was tough to get full price for season tickets. That isn't just because of the product on the field, but because there were a lot of tickets available. It is why for years we have seen a lot of opposing team fans in the stadium, even at times when the Redskins were playing well.

Personally, I never had much of an issue with FedEx as a stadium. I've always enjoyed seeing games there, even before the Jumbotron upgrade.

[Timmy_Smith]

I agree with the bad economy and HDTV hurting it.

I also agree JKC shares a role in FedEx - he built it.

But snyder had the obstructed view seats built to cram another 15k seats into the stadium (i think it was 15k?). He's also been at the helm of a miserable organization, and he certainly deserves the blame for it. I think the team being awful is a huge factor in why the stadium is hard to fill. if the team was competing for super bowls fedex field would be full every home game.

at least, thats my opinion

Agreed. Danny also ruined the 100 level by putting in the Dream Seats. Folks in the 100 level now have to stand nearly the entire game because people in the Dream Seats can't see without standing, causing everyone behind them to stand. If Danny-Boy wants to improve the fan experience, he should rip out all the Dream Seats as well.

[DC9]

I agree with the bad economy and HDTV hurting it.

I also agree JKC shares a role in FedEx - he built it.

But snyder had the obstructed view seats built to cram another 15k seats into the stadium (i think it was 15k?). He's also been at the helm of a miserable organization, and he certainly deserves the blame for it. I think the team being awful is a huge factor in why the stadium is hard to fill. if the team was competing for super bowls fedex field would be full every home game.

at least, thats my opinion

Some of those are fair points. I think he was a total idiot with a lot of the initial decisions he made as well. The dude has been out of football ops for two seasons and our average age has dropped over three years across the roster...

We've also had a ton of changes to the stadium (the ones that could be made) and we've seen him willing to sign checks and do things he's obviously uncomfortable with. I just don't understand why people are griping about stuff that happened years ago and I certainly don't understand why people are whining about a seat removal when they aren't coming out.

I know your a ticket holder... but how many people on here whine about the crowd and don't buy tickets? It's really puzzling to me. If you really think about it... it's that easy.

[RFKFedEx]

The secondary market on Stubhub looks to be down about 10% from this time last year. No real noticeable jump in prices after RG3.

[MarkB452]

I agree with the bad economy and HDTV hurting it.

I also agree JKC shares a role in FedEx - he built it.

But snyder had the obstructed view seats built to cram another 15k seats into the stadium (i think it was 15k?). <SNIP>

at least, thats my opinion

>> The original stadium was about 78K. Snyder added seats just below the main scoreboards (ruining the original design where you could see through the end zones on the lower concourse), Dream Seats, and the obstructed view seats. This was done while closing/restricting entrances to the stadium (think tailgate and touchdown club), and not adding any more bathrooms while bumping up the stadium capacity to 91K. I applaud reducing the capacity, but how about taking out those obstructed view seats first?

[Koolblue13]

I'd love to go to a game without a seat. I don't use it anyway and getting yelled at to sit down when you're screaming for the defense to shut it down ****ing blows.

[sly]

If Danny-Boy wants to improve the fan experience, he should rip out all the Dream Seats as well. Folks in the 100 level now have to stand nearly the entire game because people in the Dream Seats can't see without standing, causing everyone behind them to stand.

This is edging a little off topic, but...

The best times I've had at a game was when everyone was standing and cheering and going crazy for the Skins. That's a great fan experience. Go to any college football game with a big time program.... like... VA Tech fans... they stand all game, especially the lower level. SEC games, no contest. I know the NFL is a different bag, but more fans sitting around doesn't scream "better experience" to me.

It's definitely weird the Redskins aren't being more open about the removal of seats if it's supposed to be something that will improve the stadium (party decks... or something better). Right now it just makes FedEx Field look sad.

[tshile]

standing for 3 hours sucks. it's one thing to stand when there's a big play happening, but to stand through 4 quarters sucks and the people who force everyone behind them to do it are *******s with no respect for the people around them.

especially the drunk *******s who refuse to sit so an older person behind them doesn't have to stand the entire game.

[DC9]

It's definitely weird the Redskins aren't being more open about the removal of seats if it's supposed to be something that will improve the stadium (party decks... or something better). Right now it just makes FedEx Field look sad.

Sly, I think you are the guy/gal I want to talk to on this. Just for my knowledge... what makes you care? I mean, yes, they are removing seats and the change is obviously not done yet, but what makes you care?