Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins
Forum Rules and Guidelines

The War On Child Labor Laws: Maine Republicans Want Longer Hours, Lower Pay For Kids

Baculus

By Baculus
in The Tailgate

Recommended Posts

JimboDaMan

JimboDaMan

Posted
Posted
what chinese are we talking about? the ones that bombed pearl harbor?
Wasn't it the Germans who attacked Pearl Harbor?

My first on-the-books job was in a factory making $2.01 an hour. The extra penny was because the employer got a tax break for paying more than minimum which was $2 even. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

Posted
Posted

What we need in this thread is more generalizations about teen workers, you know, the generalizations where they are all iPhone totting spoiled rotten momma's boys with fauxhawks and spray tan. After all those generalizations make it easier to rationalize paying them less because those trust fund babies don't need the money so therefore no teen workers need the money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TimmySmith

TimmySmith

Posted
Posted
What we need in this thread is more generalizations about teen workers, you know, the generalizations where they are all iPhone totting spoiled rotten momma's boys with fauxhawks and spray tan. After all those generalizations make it easier to rationalize paying them less because those trust fund babies don't need the money so therefore no teen workers need the money.
How about rationalizing them as unskilled, untrained workers who need to learn about work ethic and responsibility. If they do need the money, then the fact that they aren't getting hired at $7.35 an hour certainly does not help.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DRSmith

DRSmith

Posted
Posted
4. It allows a home-schooled student to work during regular public school hours, but not during

regularly scheduled home school hours;

5. It exempts a minor under 16 years of age who is enrolled in school from the maximum hour

requirements to work in an agricultural setting as long as the minor has written permission from the

minor’s parent or guardian; and

6. It allows a parent or guardian of a minor who is home schooled to sign a work permit instead of

the superintendent of the school administrative unit where the homeschooled minor lives.

Yeah get those kids out of the government school and working for less than minimum wage

Nothing like an under educated populace that is focused on making money, welcome to third world America

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted
The agenda of many here in the tailgate is breathtaking.
I'm sincerely hoping you have an agenda and that's your reason for supporting this. It's better then you actually thinking this is a good thing.
People need jobs and anything that increases access to jobs IS A GOOD THING.
This is absolutely incorrect. We could tomorrow make it perfectly legal to pay employees 1 dollar an hour and everyone could have jobs! Sure unemployment would be close to zero but the human result would be working poverty.

1. It establishes a training wage for trainees or secondary students under 20 years of age at $5.25

per hour for their first 180 days of employment;

180 days of training is laughable. This is a loop hole to avoid the current minimum wage by considering any unskilled minor a "trainee" for half a year. What minimum wage job do you know of that requires 180 days of training? Would you consider that the rule or the exception?

Dishonest legislation is bad legislation.

2. It eliminates the maximum number of hours a minor 16 years of age or older can work during

school days;

Why is this needed? People need jobs so we want to flood the work force with minors that can occupy more positions for more time that because of the above rules are now cheaper? This has NOTHING to do with unemployment and everything to do with cutting costs of business.

5. It exempts a minor under 16 years of age who is enrolled in school from the maximum hour

requirements to work in an agricultural setting as long as the minor has written permission from the

minor's parent or guardian

No labor like CHILD LABOR when you need to keep those costs down. Timmy we are short on cash so you'll be working full time on the farm when you aren't in school... for less than minimum wage because you'll be, uh, training....

This Bill is described by you as increasing access to jobs? That is hilarious. Tell me how many people currently MAKING MORE are replaced with the new child workforce. Give me a friggin break.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
Yeah get those kids out of the government school and working for less than minimum wage

Nothing like an under educated populace that is focused on making money, welcome to third world America

If we can't beat those Mexicans out of stealing our jobs, we'll just have to join them. :ols:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Baculus

Baculus

Posted
  • Author
Posted

/long soapbox rant.

I know there were a couple of responses to my posts, and I'll respond to them when I get a chance, but I wanted to first add this thought: I don't think some of us understand the responsibilities that many young people have in spite of their age. Many of them are contribute to their family's incomes, especially in single-parent households. Heck, some of the ARE single-parents, are living away from home; every kid in America does not have a middle-class, suburban background. In fact, many teenagers live in families which are below the poverty line, which is especially true for minorities. And yet, based on a few cliches about teens, they are apparently deserving of a lower wage, even though many of them do work hard and try to be responsible, in spite of the immaturity of some in their age group.

If many businesses had their way, they would pay as little as possible, the sort of wages we see in third-world countries, while requiring long shifts. These longer shifts result in less time spent on school homework for those who strive to stay in school, and this can often lead to higher dropout rates, which completes the great cycle of poverty: low skills, low education, low wages.

Apparently this doesn't matter to some people -- THIS is the sort of "GIlded Age" mentality I originally described. It must be noted that many of the people who support lower wages are also against public schools (and for lowered EPA regulations: http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/01/epa-dump-pesticides/), so what sort of 19th century world do they want?

--They want workers to earn less, to stay "competitive" with their Chinese counterparts. Apparently the idea of Americans striving to earn a higher wage is irrelevant when it comes to some workers who are deemed to be little more than chattel.

--They want to reduce OSHAs budget, to reduce "federal intrusiveness," even though worker safety is still an challenge.

--Public schools? Irrelevant. People are here to work.

--Worker safety? That constraints businesses.

--Unions? That constraints businesses. Accept your wage and be silent about it. Don't like it? Good luck in finding another job.

--Air and water health? That constrains businesses.

--Taxes? That constrains businesses (but please give us perpetual bailouts, known as subsidies, thank you).

--Reforms? Communism, unless it is the pro-capitalist reforms that we want.

So WHEN do people, those who actually built America, become a factor in the equation? When do they get figured into this cold, Brave New World equation? By the way, I am always surprised when people defend multi- million and billion-dollar companies, as if they need defenders, considering the dozens and dozens of PACs and groups such as Americans for Prosperity which are already out there doing their bidding. Some of us would rather pit themselves against fellow Americans (or people) who lack any sort of political and economic power, and yet, they become targets for their criticism, while mega-corporations are supposed to be our heroes -- our Ayn Rand gods. (And I will puke if I hear one more person say, "Thank a rich person if you have a job.")

Here is the irony: a century ago, some of these major capitalists consciously used social Darwinism, the survival of the fittest, in their businesses strategies. And that still seems to be the atmosphere of today's world pushed by some right-wingers, which is especially odd since some of these conservatives claim to be anti-Darwinist, "love-your-neighbor" Christians.

Wages paid by many jobs are not livable wages -- they are below the poverty-level sort of incomes -- and these poorer people end up being on food stamps and in section-8 housing. Of course, some people want to eliminate these subsidies, so how are these poor individuals and families supposed to live? In fact, due to reduced funds in some states for these programs, many of them don't -- they live in Dickson-like squalor.

The reforms that came out of the 19th and 20th centuries -- those reforms which have now been included in the "evil" of progressivism -- arose from the concerns over the plight of our fellow man and woman. Apparently, though, in this day and age, some people really don't care about any of this, and to them humans, Americans or otherwise, are mere fleshy cogs for their machinery.

BTW, I would suggest that some of you read 19th century realist literature such as Rebecca Harding Davis' "Life in the Iron Mills," because some of us don't seem to remember that we didn't arrive at our current situation in a vacuum of economic and social history.

Phew. I am done with my keyboard mashing.

---------- Post added April-1st-2011 at 10:43 PM ----------

How about rationalizing them as unskilled, untrained workers who need to learn about work ethic and responsibility. If they do need the money, then the fact that they aren't getting hired at $7.35 an hour certainly does not help.

Of course, everyone who is trying to get minimum wage jobs aren't untrained or unskilled, either. :-)

---------- Post added April-1st-2011 at 10:47 PM ----------

Funny, I just got a text from one of my minors in my FDA program (I run a minor tobacco undercover buy program for the FDA) complaining that he was getting paid 9.37 an hour. He swore I told him he would get paid 10.37/hour. I had to tell him that he had to wait for his raise until August when the next grant period started... :doh:

I don't know about minors around the country, but the ones who work for me have it made in the shade: get to be picked up and dropped off at their homes and driven around by me, spend 2 minutes in a store trying to buy cigarettes, get sodas and whatever food they want bought for them through our grant, get paid lunch breaks when I take them to restaurants, and get paid much higher than minimum wage. I would have killed for this type of job as a high schooler.

If someone was told they would be paid a certain amount when they were hired, I don't think it is unrealistic for them to expect that amount in their paycheck. Or is it?

Your story, though, is the sort of "minors are overpaid and whiny" sentiment I always hear as an excuse to whey they should receive low wages. But just like every business owner isn't an evil, money-grubbing capitalist, every kid isn't over-expectant and privileged, either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TimmySmith

TimmySmith

Posted
Posted
Of course, everyone who is trying to get minimum wage jobs aren't untrained or unskilled, either. :-)
There are, very simply, 2 trains of thought in this thread.

1. Maine has analyzed employment figures, noticed a trend that young people are not being hired, and is adjusting laws in an effort to help them.

2. Maine is trying to recruit young slave labor at a cheap rate.

Honestly, why would I hire a 16 year old for $7.35 and hour when a 25 year old is applying for the same job. It's a safe assumption that the 25 year old needs the money more and is more experienced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted
Honestly, why would I hire a 16 year old for $7.35 and hour when a 25 year old is applying for the same job. It's a safe assumption that the 25 year old needs the money more and is more experienced.

I might actually hire that 17 year old. The 25 year old taking this job is going to be going through the motions and kind of blahing it. He's knows it's a **** job and may treat it that way even if he really needs it. For a few weeks anyway, that 17 year old is really going to give his or her all. Weren't we all that way for our first jobs. We wanted to prove ourselves and were deathly scared of making the least mistake. All things being equal, both the 25 year old and 17 year old bring different strengths to the position.

I'm generalizing here, but that's what these threads are about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

Posted
Posted
How about rationalizing them as unskilled, untrained workers who need to learn about work ethic and responsibility. If they do need the money, then the fact that they aren't getting hired at $7.35 an hour certainly does not help.

MINIMUM wage...it's a MINIMUM, which pretty much indicates to me that the person working for a MINIMUM wage is unskilled, and untrained no matter their age.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
Honestly, why would I hire a 16 year old for $7.35 and hour when a 25 year old is applying for the same job. It's a safe assumption that the 25 year old needs the money more and is more experienced.

Your hypothetical assumes a situation in which an adult and a "child" are both applying for the same minimum-wage job.

The reason why the government should give the employer a financial incentive not to hire the adult is . . . ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Special K

Special K

Posted
Posted

If someone was told they would be paid a certain amount when they were hired, I don't think it is unrealistic for them to expect that amount in their paycheck. Or is it?

Obviously not, genius.

Problem is, I never said that.

2nd problem is, yes it was a whiny ass text message, sent to me late at night, after I had given him his paycheck, that paid him for more hours than he actually, physically worked. Some of our undercover inspections were cancelled by the higher ups in the federal system, and since I had already asked that he set aside time for those inspections, I (and our state program coordinator) felt it only fair to pay him for that time (which was double the amount of time he worked). I also bought him lunch and his lunch time at the restaurant with me was on the clock (as per our grant stipulations). So, bottom line, free Red Robin, paid lunch, and paid extra time...and he still texts me whining about his paycheck. Late at night, when I'm at home. Yes, that's whiny. No way I would have ever had the balls to do that to my boss when I was in high school. Glad he sees me as someone he's comfortable enough with to call and text well after work hours...as I try to be a mentor and always available for the kids I work with. But that doesn't mean I don't think some of them are free from whining. I love all the kids in my program to death, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to call them out when I think they are being over-the-top whiny.

Your story, though, is the sort of "minors are overpaid and whiny" sentiment I always hear as an excuse to whey they should receive low wages. But just like every business owner isn't an evil, money-grubbing capitalist, every kid isn't over-expectant and privileged, either.

No, my thoughts as to why they should technically receive low wages (e.g. minimum wage) is that they are unskilled laborers. Case in point, the kids in my program get drvien around and go in and ask to buy cigarettes without an ID. No skill necessary because I run the program, I drive them around, and I do the paperwork and evidence handling when some dumbass clerk sells them tobacco products.

And like I said in my previous post, I am talking about my personal experience with employing minors. If you will notice, I specifically said that it was obviously not representative of minors across America.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted

First, this 'article' really belongs in the "Deliberate Distortions made by the liberal media" thread. I can't believe how many people read thinkprogress.org and believe what they see. It is right on par with the Daily Kos.

All you have to do is to go to the real law, http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/bills_125th/billpdfs/HP098701.pdf, to see the real story.

First, the $5.25 for the first 180 days only applies to someone under 20 AND a secondary student OR a trainee. This has nothing to do with anyone who is only working (not going to school) or doing regular work.

Second, it allows those under 18 (but not under 16) to work more hours IF they and their employer want to have them work more. It simply takes away some of the hourly limits and does NOT force companies OR workers to work more hours.

This whole thing about 'child labor' is just a smokescreen put up by the writer at thinkprogress and certainly shows a clear bias against (those really mean and bad) Maine Republicans.

I really laugh when many folks here complain about Fox News (and some even cry about that news place in sigs), the one place that doesn't worship at the altar of liberal thought. I wouldn't consider posting threads from worldnet daily, but folks here post crap from thinkprogress and daily kos like it is actual news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...