NavyDave Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 dude even 5 watt light bulbs know entitlement spending from both sides is the problem. well some 5 watt lightbulbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 While I admit that I found it kind of refreshing to see a thread like this started by someone on "my" side rather than another angry conservative rant about liburls , there was no way this was going to turn out well, especially given the title of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 dude even 5 watt light bulbs know entitlement spending from both sides is the problem.well some 5 watt lightbulbs Federal spending increased 69 percent under Ronald Reagan. The Budget deficit was erased under Clinton. Bush did not veto a single bill his first four years in office and spending increased 25 percent during that time. Explain to me how liberals are the ones who spend us into oblivion. Entitlement spending is a "problem" if you don't bring in enough money in taxes to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Have you ever bothered to look at how deficits grow under Democrat administrations versus Republican administrations or do you just parrot whatever Rush Limbaugh says? Political mythology runs deep in our psyches. The idea that Republicans are fiscally responsible is deeply held, because it actually was true several decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It bothers me if they don't believe it will reduce the budget. Especially after pointing out the Medicare was double counted to begin with. (1) It was essentially a republican plan having first been proposed by Richard Nixon. (2) It "reforms" the existing healthcare system rather than moving to the single payer or government option program which liberals wanted and conservatives found so objectionable. (3) It was vetted by the Congressional budget office and was found to be budget neutral over the first few years and would SAVE the country hundreds of billions after that. (4) The new republican majority wrote into their bylaws that all new legislation they pass that amounted in new spending would need to be offset by cuts... EXCEPT repealing Obamacare which will save the country hundreds of billions over the next ten years, and which the GOP is excusing themselves for accounting for. It bothers me when conservatives who should be opinionated but open minded have become opinionated and issolated from reality. It bothers me if they do a reconciliation trick or saying something is budget when it is not. Which the dems with Obama didn't use, and which George Bush used as well as Bill Clinton used before him. It bothers me if the senate (1 person) stops all debate. Not debate, just the decision when it's so close. It bothers me there is nothing at all to pay for Obamacare... its free floating in all things except the measly 700 fine that is in the courts. edit: (it should be 3/4's of the cost of care so when they end up in the system when sick the average isn't so far off). There should be a vat tax of say 10%. Let us review please.... 2006 George Bush passed a nothing burger healthcare reform bill which ammounted to large checks for the insurance and drug companies at the expense of 800 billion dollars. Money which was entirely unfunded... 100% went to the national debt. Then the Republican in charge of ramming it through the house retired from his seat more than a year before the next election and became the highest paid lobiest for the drug companies.... That you don't object too. 2010 Obama proposes a less expensive bill, 100% deficite neutral as judged by the very conservative ( in estimates otherwise non partisan ) Congressional budget office. It is further pjrojected that bill will SAVE the country hundreds of billions over the next ten years and even more money after that. But it's the Obama care bill which you "object too" on fiscal conservative grounds... More like political parroting grounds if you ask me. I mean hell if the GOP thought obama care was too expensive really truely, why would they except themselves from having to make cutting it revenue neutral in their bylaws for the new republican majority in congress.... I think you are entirely biased and frankly one of the problems with the US political system today. edit: (I was just quoting you verbatim on this, I don't actually mean it). I think your opposing view is fantastic. ---------- Post added March-11th-2011 at 01:23 PM ---------- Have you ever bothered to look at how deficits grow under Democrat administrations versus Republican administrations or do you just parrot whatever Rush Limbaugh says? Deficits grow under Democratic Administrations???? !!!! ?????? What are you talking about Willis? Please name me the Historic Democratic administrations this is true of? Carter.. nope reduced the deficite. Clinton... nope reduced the deficite. Obama the jury is still out... he was handed a disaster and he's dealing with it. And Let me help you out.... Reagan... Yep... increased the federal debt 260% over 8 years. (+1.6 trillion) Bush Sr... YEP....increased the federal debt by 60% over 4 years. Bush Jr... YEP... more than doubled the national debt.. (+6-7 Trillion over 8 years)... We had about a 13 trillion dollar debt when Obama took office and Republicans since Reagan are responsible for about 10 Trillion of that debt' date=' Democrates about 1 trillion.. ---------- Post added March-11th-2011 at 01:28 PM ---------- Political mythology runs deep in our psyches. The idea that Republicans are fiscally responsible is deeply held, because it actually was true several decades ago. Like in the Hoover administration. ---------- Post added March-11th-2011 at 01:35 PM ---------- dude even 5 watt light bulbs know entitlement spending from both sides is the problem.well some 5 watt lightbulbs Actually 5 watt lightbulbs think that's the problem.... The actual problem is that we have the same problem on a larger scale as they have in California. Republicans fall asleep at night thinking of the good old days when we defeated hitler, won the space race, defeated polio, and faced down the Soviet Uniion.... Then they decry the greeedy lazy americans ( mainly liberals ) who have weakened us from our dominant position in the world.... What republicans don't seem to grasp is today the tax rate is lower than it was in the 70;s 60's, 50's, 40's or even for much of the 30's... We are broke solely because we have cut revenue to below our modern historical record. You would have to go back to 1931 in the Hoover administration to find such a low federal income tax rate. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213 That combined with the fact that about 95% of corporations legally pay no taxes every year is the root of our finantial mess. California has the same problem. It's a wealthy state, among teh wealthiest; but their government is broke solely because their revenue model has been locked in place at an level below the threashold that will allow California's to support minimal services from the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 o o o my turn why does it seem nobody in the world respects Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The subsequent posts in this thread prove my first post was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The subsequent posts in this thread prove my first post was correct. dang you're gonna make me search through the thread for your first post? EDIT: saw it and agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Neither party "owns" the destruction of the US any more than the other. Both are to blame. Neither will admit that. They'll just toss stones at the other camp. I say that it isn't necessarily the "parties" or the politicians, but rather the constituents they represent. Once people start demanding soemthing different, they'll get it. The one thing that I do respect out of the whole tea party movement is that a group of people (whether you agree with their ideology or not - and I do not) wanted something different, demanded it, and 'magically' politicians appeared to represent those people. They are all in Washington now. The parties and politicians are just a reflection of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 o o o my turnwhy does it seem nobody in the world respects Canada? The country with the #2 proven oil reserves in the world? The 8th largest economy in the world with the 36th largest population.... Maybe you are thinking it's because they have socialized Medicine in Canada? You would be wrong though, because every industrilized country on earth except the United States has some form of Socialized healthcare system which covers all their citizens... All of them. We are the outliers, not Canada. America had the #1 healthcare system in teh world up until the early 1970's. Now we rank just above cuba and below Costa Rica by the UN thinktank which we ourselves established to study healthcare delivery systems in 1948. The World Health Organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 "Why Does It Seem Republicans and Their Supporters Are Destroying America?" The same reason fringe conservatives were sure Obama and the Democrats in Congress were destroying America before the mighty House Republicans swept in to save the day. When you saturate yourself with media that backs up your own fears and biases, your bound to get a loony view of people you disagree with. That's why conservatives like me should stick to liberal media like NPR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The parties and politicians are just a reflection of the people. Agree 100% We might not always get the government we want, but we always get the government we deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Yea sadly, the people republicans choose to represent them in congress only care about power and money and couldn't give a **** about anyone else. ****ing disgraceful individuals who **** on the lower class in this country time after time. Even going so far as to try to hinder their fundamental right to vote by writing completely useless legislation serving only one malicious purpose. These last three years they haven't even attempted to get off their cushy thrones of luxury and actually take part in governing the ****ing country. all they have done is act like petulant, greedy ****ing children by saying no to everything dems try to do without putting a solution on the table because they don't care about what's right, they only care about themselves. And why the **** not, these rich white men have only been in power since the inception of this country and further still. They have no empathy or understanding for the less fortunate because that would mean having a ****ing conscious and realizing that they have done everything in their power to suppress the advancement and progression of minorities in this country. Ensuring that it will take at least a dozen generations for them to catch up to whites. And of course they have the ****ing shamelessness to question the validity of affirmative action. Acting as though the 400 years of oppression has nothing to do with the current state of African American culture. Mother****ers would sell their mothers for five dollars. And, I am not a democrat because that would mean aligning myself with the spineless, sackless party that had no ****ing courage to openly challenge the right on their bull**** selfish policies. Always looking to compromise with the right when the right didnt give a **** about their input the previous 8 years. Hello democrats!!!!! The country put your ass in power in a super majority and even then you couldn't ****ing do what's right for the country without giving into the self-serving whining and ****ing. God this ****ing country is in trouble. One party trying to create as large a class divide as possible and the other crouching in the corner with their eyes closed and hands over their ears. And I couldn't give a **** what the conservatives on here think because as good a person as u maybe, the people u choose to represent you act with complete lack of regard for the people most in need of help. The mother****ers dared to go as far as cutting the relief bill for 9/11 responders who still suffer from their selfless and heroic efforts in our country's greatest time of need in the las decade. ****ing disgusting Then of course there is the arrogance of republicans to threaten to stop the unemployment benefits when the country is suffering the worst economic crisis in decades. But who gives a **** about the poor. They can't give is any money or donations so they can fend for themselves. Then of course there is the special kind republican only found in the bible belt. The most ignorant, intolerant constituency in America. They hate government interfering with personal freedoms but only if you are white and heterosexual. Of course, republican leadership loves this support base because they are so easily manipulated due to how uneducated they are. They can spoon feed them whatever bull**** they want to make up and the base eats it up gladly. It is why foxnews exists. No news organization with any integrity would operate that way. The network serves only to brainwash their viewers. Every program on the network toes the same exact line with the same exact words so that eventually it becomes the truth to their viewers. The simple fact is that the more educated u are, the more likely you are to be liberal in your ideology. Of course the right will scream about the biases that they perceive exist in the educational system but really its just because students who pursue higher education expose themselves to many different viewpoints and perspectives so they able to understand and emphasize with those who are disadvantaged in this country and around the world. However, the progressive left has to fight tooth and nail with conservatives on any progressive issue no matter how small because republicans have no desire to change the status quo and any threat to the status quo is met fervent opposition because they don't want equality for everyone because that directly challenges the balance of power and would threaten the continued dominance of the privileged class in America. You conservatives can laugh of this post like it isn't true but you know better. Conservatives in this country have had to be forcibly dragged into every major positive social progression and that will never chAnge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsTime Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 They have no empathy or understanding for the less fortunate because that would mean having a ****ing conscious and realizing that they have done everything in their power to suppress the advancement and progression of minorities in this country. Ensuring that it will take at least a dozen generations for them to catch up to whites. desiorio, do you care to back up this claim with any facts? Or are you just trying to sling a bunch of **** against the wall and see what sticks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 First, why does it always take some stated fact from some article to prove a point. Second, the rich are getting richer. Republicans are destroying the middle class, and the Democrats are doing nothing about it. Which means they are just as guilty. I didn't find an exact article to support my point, but the one below gets in the ball park. Where's the economic recovery? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/08/AR2011030804456.html Suppose the economy recovers but everyone still feels lousy. It could happen. In fact, it's happening right now. Our current recovery, alas, is different from all previous recoveries that America has experienced since the end of World War II. The earlier ones were marked by wage increases. As the economy picked up and more revenue started flowing to business, those businesses shared the revenue with their employees. Mark Whitehouse of the Wall Street Journal looked at how businesses were dividing up the pie 18 months into every previous recovery since 1947 and found that 58 percent of their increases in productivity trickled down to their workers in increased wages. This time around, the numbers are starkly different. Productivity increased 5.2 percent from the recovery's start in mid-2009 to the end of 2010, he found, but wages rose by a minuscule 0.3 percent. That means just 6 percent of productivity gains have gone to our newly more-productive workers. Where is the other 94 percent going? To profits, which have been increasing at a record clip for the past three quarters. To funds on the corporations' balance sheets, which the Federal Reserve calculates at nearly $2 trillion. To shareholders. To the companies' stock buybacks. Indeed, many of the nation's leading corporations have been spending more money buying their own shares than they have on job-creating investments, research and development, or higher wages. In the first three quarters of 2010, according to Standard & Poor's, companies' purchases of their own shares came to $212 billion - an increase of 80 percent, 221 percent and 128 percent for each of those quarters over the corresponding three-month periods in 2009. The jobs that businesses have been creating, moreover, aren't anything to write home about. They pay significantly less than the jobs that have been lost. According to research from the National Employment Law Project, as of January, 40 percent of the jobs lost in the recession came from higher-wage industries but just 14 percent of the jobs created during the recovery were in those industries. Lower-wage industries, where jobs paid on average less than $15 an hour, accounted for 23 percent of the jobs lost but fully 49 percent of newly created ones. Among the industries that grew in 2010, the top three occupations were retail sales clerks, cashiers and food preparers; each has a median hourly wage of less than $10. It's one thing for a nation to be downwardly mobile during a recession. It's quite another to be downwardly mobile during a recovery - but that looks to be precisely what's happening. Why the difference between this recovery and its predecessors? For one thing, it's happening at a time when almost the entire private-sector workforce is nonunion - 93.1 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the highest level of nonunion employment since some time in the 19th century, before such record-keeping began. Absent unions, workers are dependent entirely on management's willingness to share their increased revenue with their employees. And absent unions, apparently, no such willingness exists. We didn't arrive at this predicament accidentally. Since the early 1980s, when General Electric's widely admired chief executive, Jack Welch, declared that the primary goal of the corporation was to increase shareholder value, America's corporate managers have been faithfully rewarded for treating their employees as necessary - or unnecessary - evils, to be shed whenever possible, or replaced by foreign or temporary workers, and most certainly not allowed to form unions or receive wage increases. Click on above post to see the rest of the article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 o o o my turnwhy does it seem nobody in the world respects Canada? Why would any Canadian care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Federal spending increased 69 percent under Ronald Reagan.Democratic Controlled Congress Tip O'Neil The Budget deficit was erased under Clinton. After the GOP Controlled Congress Newt Gingrich took over and Bubba was forced to agree to welfare reform even I will admit that was cooking of the books Bush did not veto a single bill his first four years in office and spending increased 25 percent during that time. Yeah letting Ted Kennedy write the largest Education spending bill ever at that time (No Child left behind was Teddy's first then Dubba Ya's)' date=' sending millions to Africa to control the clap err AIDS were not things I agreed with however after ENRON under Clinton and other scandals as well as 9-11 the tax cuts helped the nation rebound to the point that we had 5.2% unemployment and it still wasn't enough. He should have pulled an Obama and forced domestic drilling and building Nuke plants down the liberals throat while he had a majority in the Senate. Dubba Ya still was moderate on Social issues[/b'] Explain to me how liberals are the ones who spend us into oblivion. Really? Over a 1 trillion dollar deficit this year and Liberals in Congress are sniveling about cutting a few billion dollars? Entitlement spending is a "problem" if you don't bring in enough money in taxes to pay for it. Yeah so tax people more instead or print more dollars instead of taking steps to rein it in now. ---------- Post added March-11th-2011 at 05:03 PM ---------- o o o my turnwhy does it seem nobody in the world respects Canada? Because they still call ham, bacon. Curling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Political mythology runs deep in our psyches. The idea that Republicans are fiscally responsible is deeply held, because it actually was true several decades ago. When was that? In the fifties? Certainly not in the twenties or in the 70's or 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 When was that? In the fifties? Certainly not in the twenties or in the 70's or 80's. Certainly not since the 70s. But that was only 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Was tricky Dick good with a buck? Or are you referring to Ford? I believe that one of the two set the table for Carter who completely fumbled the ball, but I don't remember the '70's being that great. Then again, I was pretty young. Who knows? Maybe Tip O'Neal and the Dem majority in the House were able to keep the Repubs in line and the early 70's were pretty fiscally responsible :evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The country with the #2 proven oil reserves in the world? Drill...... Drill....... Drill.... Drill....... The cat is out of the bag, look out Canada. We tend to invade places just so we can drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Things aren't always what they seem..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Things aren't always what they seem..... No, sometimes they're worse. (credit to my Dad for that quip) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejaydana Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 what a thoughtful, investigative, nuanced thread this has been thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It's not just republicans though clearly republicans are leading the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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