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Big name Free Agents is a Redskins Tradition, so why not big name Coordinators/Position Coaches?


i<3DC4ever

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I think it's safe to say most of us Skins fans know the tradition of signing big name free agents during the offseason, ranging from the likes of Deion Sanders, Jeff George, and Bruce Smith, to the more recent aquisition and fan favorite, Albert Haynesworth. :ols:

All jokes aside, we all know it usually never spells out "success" for us... however, have we ever considered hiring big name coordinators and position coaches?

The St. Louis Rams did it with the man who led the New England Patriots offense to a record 589 in the 2007 NFL Regular Season, and after a bad head coaching stint with the Denver Broncos, the Rams hired Josh McDaniels to coach his natural profession again. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dc4f99/article/exbroncos-coach-mcdaniels-picked-to-oversee-rams-offense)

Another team who took a similar approach as the Rams with hiring a successful coordinator to lead the task he is a pro at, as much as I HATE to mention them, the Dallas cowboys hired Rob Ryan to lead their defense this upcoming season. We all know that the Clevland Browns defense significantly improved under this guy, so it's a wonder to why more teams didn't attempt to aquire him. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dcb36e/article/ryan-officially-joins-cowboys-staff-as-defensive-coordinator)

The most entertaining idea to me out of them all though is hiring a Hall of Famer to coach the position he was a stand out at during his professional football career. The Oakland Raiders hired Hall of Famer, Rod Woodson, to be their CB's coach on Monday. It goes without questioning that this guy had one stellar career as a cornerback on the Pittsburgh Steelers, and also contributed to the Baltimore Ravens, so wouldn't he be a very appropriate candidate to coach other cornerbacks to become even better? (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e4d6a3/article/hall-of-famer-woodson-joins-raiders-staff-as-cbs-coach)

I don't recall any signings under Dan Snyder that include big name coordinators or position coaches. I know Chris Samuels interned for a little with our offensive line recently, but that isn't really the same thing. I appologize if i am incorrect about this, but I have done my share of research and couldn't shore up any evidence on it. So I ask you, my new ExtremeSkins family, does this not sound like a good idea?

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Holy **** dude, you don't remember all the titles when Gibbs was here? He had more titles than I knew existed. He had 2 DB coaches who had both been defensive coordinators, former defensive coordinators for a LB and DL coach and former head coaches as OC and DC not to mention the 1/2 a dozen other big names here like OL coach Bugel who had been a Head Coach on 2 different teams.

What else do you want?

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I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to prove with the examples you've given.

The season hasn't started yet, we have no idea how those guys are gonna perform with their new teams.

Especially with the Rod Woodson signing. Just cuz he was a great corner doesn't mean he'll be a good coach.

And the Browns could pretty much only go up after being 31st the year before and spending the first two picks on defensive players.

Your point would be a lot more compelling if you had big name signings from previous years and their effect on their teams, not people that were just hired recently.

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His big moves are with head coaches. It's tough to beat, in terms of name recognition, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs, and Mike Shanahan.

But as has been pointed out, he did hire three pretty big name coordinators in Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams and Al Saunders.

For me the big issue is why has he never hired a competent personnel person? This is where the entire franchise has fallen.

The last time we had a strong person who is good at personel was Bobby Beathard. If one charts the demise of the Redskins, as I have, you will see that young talent stopped being found once Beathard left after the 89 draft. After that the Gibbs/Casserly combo road Beathards players and some plan B free agents to one last Super Bowl before it all came crashing down.

JKC then mistakenly put his trust in Casserly to continue the winning ways like Beathard. Unfortunately Casserly, while a good scout, was not an elite GM. He was at best middle of the pack and the Redskins under his control reflected that mediocrity. Then came Danny and his own delusion of grandeur and hand picked puppet Vinny. We've seen the results with those two in charge along with head coaches given power in personnel who had never demonstrated any success at it.

This has been Danny's biggest failure. He had no loyalty to past institutional success like JKC did with Casserly. It was his own arrogance and need for having his dirty hands in the building of the team that has left this franchise with a front office and scouting staff that has always been considered one of the worst in the NFL.

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I think it's safe to say most of us Skins fans know the tradition of signing big name free agents during the offseason' date=' ranging from the likes of Deion Sanders, Jeff George, and Bruce Smith, to the more recent aquisition and fan favorite, Albert Haynesworth. :ols:

All jokes aside, we all know it usually never spells out "success" for us... however, have we ever considered hiring big name coordinators and position coaches?

The St. Louis Rams did it with the man who led the New England Patriots offense to a record 589 in the 2007 NFL Regular Season, and after a bad head coaching stint with the Denver Broncos, the Rams hired Josh McDaniels to coach his natural profession again. ([url']http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dc4f99/article/exbroncos-coach-mcdaniels-picked-to-oversee-rams-offense[/url])

Another team who took a similar approach as the Rams with hiring a successful coordinator to lead the task he is a pro at, as much as I HATE to mention them, the Dallas cowboys hired Rob Ryan to lead their defense this upcoming season. We all know that the Clevland Browns defense significantly improved under this guy, so it's a wonder to why more teams didn't attempt to aquire him. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dcb36e/article/ryan-officially-joins-cowboys-staff-as-defensive-coordinator)

The most entertaining idea to me out of them all though is hiring a Hall of Famer to coach the position he was a stand out at during his professional football career. The Oakland Raiders hired Hall of Famer, Rod Woodson, to be their CB's coach on Monday. It goes without questioning that this guy had one stellar career as a cornerback on the Pittsburgh Steelers, and also contributed to the Baltimore Ravens, so wouldn't he be a very appropriate candidate to coach other cornerbacks to become even better? (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e4d6a3/article/hall-of-famer-woodson-joins-raiders-staff-as-cbs-coach)

I don't recall any signings under Dan Snyder that include big name coordinators or position coaches. I know Chris Samuels interned for a little with our offensive line recently, but that isn't really the same thing. I appologize if i am incorrect about this, but I have done my share of research and couldn't shore up any evidence on it. So I ask you, my new ExtremeSkins family, does this not sound like a good idea?

I think you missed something here since we had Marvin Lewis and a host of other guys that were coordinators and coaches that had very good reputations. Bob Ryan and Josh McDaniels are very good coaches but they don't necessarily equal to the success of the Redskins if they were hired. As far as Rod Woodson goes, he was a great corner during his day but can he teach the younger generation how to play that position or coach them to become Pro Bowlers? I don't remember anyone that was a great player becoming a great coach. Mike Ditka played at a high level as player and was successful as a coach but no one else comes to mind. Most great coaches are never great athletes but most former players that have become coaches have been successful in one shape or form. So Rod Woodson may become a very good coach but the odds he won't be are greater.

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His big moves are with head coaches. It's tough to beat, in terms of name recognition, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs, and Mike Shanahan.

But as has been pointed out, he did hire three pretty big name coordinators in Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams and Al Saunders.

For me the big issue is why has he never hired a competent personnel person? This is where the entire franchise has fallen.

The last time we had a strong person who is good at personel was Bobby Beathard. If one charts the demise of the Redskins, as I have, you will see that young talent stopped being found once Beathard left after the 89 draft. After that the Gibbs/Casserly combo road Beathards players and some plan B free agents to one last Super Bowl before it all came crashing down.

JKC then mistakenly put his trust in Casserly to continue the winning ways like Beathard. Unfortunately Casserly, while a good scout, was not an elite GM. He was at best middle of the pack and the Redskins under his control reflected that mediocrity. Then came Danny and his own delusion of grandeur and hand picked puppet Vinny. We've seen the results with those two in charge along with head coaches given power in personnel who had never demonstrated any success at it.

This has been Danny's biggest failure. He had no loyalty to past institutional success like JKC did with Casserly. It was his own arrogance and need for having his dirty hands in the building of the team that has left this franchise with a front office and scouting staff that has always been considered one of the worst in the NFL.

What he said and (OP) where have you been for the past decade or so? Smells like a spammer...

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Do you not recall Gregg Williams and Al Saunders? What about Marvin Lewis for that matter? Come on dude....:mad:

Exactly what I thought.

I think the HC should be able to pick his own coordinators and position coaches, not the owner, whether we know the hires or not.

Heck, Kyle Shanahan and Jim Haslett were considered big hires. Same with our RB coach, Bobby Turner. They aren't Hollywood names, but they're big and well known in the football world.

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Holy **** dude, you don't remember all the titles when Gibbs was here? He had more titles than I knew existed. He had 2 DB coaches who had both been defensive coordinators, former defensive coordinators for a LB and DL coach and former head coaches as OC and DC not to mention the 1/2 a dozen other big names here like OL coach Bugel who had been a Head Coach on 2 different teams.

What else do you want?

I have to agree. We had a lot of big names when Gibbs was the head coach. I reallly miss the coaching staff back then. I don't like the coaching staff now.

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A better use of money would be hiring big name scouts, and throwing a ton of money into developing the best scouting department in the NFL. That is a place where I couldn't ask the team to spend money faster - from hiring the best eyes for talent to developing the sharpest minds in creating statistical analysis in determining success rates for prospects, etc.

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A better use of money would be hiring big name scouts, and throwing a ton of money into developing the best scouting department in the NFL. That is a place where I couldn't ask the team to spend money faster - from hiring the best eyes for talent to developing the sharpest minds in creating statistical analysis in determining success rates for prospects, etc.

I agree. It makes no sense that we don't have the biggest, deepest scouting organization in the NFL.

You take the money you spent on Albert and you probably get that

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This is what we should have done. When Jim Zorn came in we should have kept Al Saunders. The dude had more experience in offensive play calling than Jim Zorn did. That way in 2009 we wouldn't have had to bring in Sherman Lewis and Sherman Smith. The play calling responsibility could have been given to Al Saunders. If he did good with it, he may have became our head coach. You never know, it may have worked out for the better.

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This is what we should have done. When Jim Zorn came in we should have kept Al Saunders. The dude had more experience in offensive play calling than Jim Zorn did. That way in 2009 we wouldn't have had to bring in Sherman Lewis and Sherman Smith. The play calling responsibility could have been given to Al Saunders. If he did good with it, he may have became our head coach. You never know, it may have worked out for the better.

If we kept Al Saunders, Zorn would not have come in. Zorn was not hired as a head coach. He was hired as offensive coordinator. He was promoted to head coach once Dan Snyder realized that no desirable head coach would take a job where he had no say in his coordinators.

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If we kept Al Saunders' date=' Zorn would not have come in. Zorn was not hired as a head coach. He was hired as offensive coordinator. He was promoted to head coach once Dan Snyder realized that no desirable head coach would take a job where he had no say in his coordinators.[/quote']

True. The job should have went to Greg Williams to begin with. I don't know why Snyder promoted Zorn to head coach. If we had made Williams the head coach, we wouldn't be dealing with these problems. We probably would still have Campbell and our draft picks. Defense would be a lot better in our 4-3 and we still have a lot of the old coaching staff.

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If we kept Al Saunders' date=' Zorn would not have come in. Zorn was not hired as a head coach. He was hired as offensive coordinator. He was promoted to head coach once Dan Snyder realized that no desirable head coach would take a job where he had no say in his coordinators.[/quote']

Right...if Saunders was going to stay, I imagine it would have been with Williams as the head coach. It would have basically been an extension of Gibbs' run here.

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True. The job should have went to Greg Williams to begin with. I don't know why Snyder promoted Zorn to head coach. If we had made Williams the head coach, we wouldn't be dealing with these problems. We probably would still have Campbell and our draft picks. Defense would be a lot better in our 4-3 and we still have a lot of the old coaching staff.

No, we'd be dealing with all of the old problems Skins fans are accustomed to, namely a Snyder/Cerrato dynamic duo. I respect the man, but I was personally not a huge fan of Gregg Williams defenses. Big plays were almost non-existent, and big plays are what spark a team. Even though the first year of the 3-4 didn't yield the results everyone wanted, I personally was pretty happy with the increase in turnovers. I am glad we moved to it and I truly believe it will pay off in the long run.

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I dont know if that is a good thing, i like the organization better now to be honest

I agree...I was just saying that I don't see a scenario that both Zorn and Saunders would have been here together. I actually wish they would have completely turned the page after Gibbs resigned and gone in a completely different direction. Instead they kept/promoted Blache and kept a lot of the same personnel.

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A better use of money would be hiring big name scouts, and throwing a ton of money into developing the best scouting department in the NFL. That is a place where I couldn't ask the team to spend money faster - from hiring the best eyes for talent to developing the sharpest minds in creating statistical analysis in determining success rates for prospects, etc.

Sometimes I feel like we are brothers separated at birth. You and I are on the same page most of the time. wanted to read every post and I kept seeing hiring a good GM. Well, we did that. I feel like you do, that with Dan's money, we should have the best scouting dept. in the NFL. It seems like that is the REAL area that we are lacking.

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