The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Thinking Skins]

Beal shooting just under 43% in his last 5

[RonArtest15]

Beal shooting just under 43% in his last 5

That's actually VERY encouraging.

Another thing...seeing Michael Lee's report that the Wizards could have traded for James Harden is a real tough pill to swallow as a fan. I'm really over this front office and their mismanagement over personnel. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing a piss poor product on the floor when things COULD have been different.

Harden alone would have had us much better that what the current record is. It also would have renewed faith with the fanbase that the organization is serious about actually building a competitive team. A core of Nene, Harden, and Wall is feasible and would have been our best trio of players since the big 3 were in their prime.

I remember Ernie Grunfeld taking a risk on a relatively unproven Gilbert Arenas and he helped make this team relevant. This trade was more of a sure-thing and I think it would have had a similar impact. What the hell are they doing/thinking?

I'm so sick of the bumbling nature of this franchise. So sick of it. I'm a lifelong O's supporter, and I've NEVER felt this beaten down as a fan. Something has to change.

[Rocky21]

I watched a lot of the game but thankfully missed our boy Jan Vesely shooting an air ball on a free throw. (He is 3 of 15 on the season at the line. Unbelievable. dude can't shoot...at all.)

Okafor looks like ****. I hate Livingston. No game.

I think we have a keeper in Beal. Man Crawfordid is a shot chucker.

I also read it was the first time both teams finished with a shooting percentage under .33 in SEVEN YEARS.

[endzone_dave]

Crawford looked like the old Crawford, chucking up all sorts of shots. It looked like he was moving away from that this year. Maybe his agent told him he needed to get his scoring average up.

[RonArtest15]

Crawford looked like the old Crawford, chucking up all sorts of shots. It looked like he was moving away from that this year. Maybe his agent told him he needed to get his scoring average up.

Crawford has been really good this year. We don't stand a chance to be in these games unless Crawford is shooting. He's the one guy in our lineup who can create off the dribble and get off a shot. Until Wall is back and Nene's minutes restriction is limited, I can live w/ Crawford's chucking.

yeah, I think im just going to tune this team out until Wall comes back. Even if they win, I really dont care. And when Wall comes back, if he dont play well I will start thinking about the 2014 NBA draft.

Harden and Wall could have been a great back court. That actually looks like a team that could make the playoffs. And Harden is only 23, 24? Yeah, thanks Ern-dawg. And thank you Ted for showing that you are a cheapskate like Abe was.

To purgatory we go, To purgatory we go, hi-hio the derry-o to purgatory we go.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 01:24 AM ----------

you realize these guys are all in their 20s. You can learn to shoot better, but your handles are your handles at this point.

You learn the game, and gain confidence in your dribbling, when you are playing in middle school and HS. U ever play ball before?

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 01:26 AM ----------

no, Wall is staying. The way the NBA system is rigged, he has no choice but to stay.

But I guarantee you there will be an early out clause.

What's going on w/ Kevin Love in Minnesota is foreshadowing for what's eventually going to happen w/ John Wall.

*edit* still can't get over the fact that we could have had one of the better back courts in the NBA w/ Harden and Wall. SMH. I'm legit tight over this.

Edited December 12, 2012 by RonArtest15

[nfl guru]

Say the Wizards could have taken Kawli Leonard instead of Vesely and pulled the trigger on this trade. Wall, Harden, Leonard, Seraphin, Nene is a legit lineup with youth, talent, and a bonafide closer in Harden. The NBA rewards bad teams and the wiz have been in the lottery 4 straight years with barely anything to show for it lol

3 wins with a almost maxed cap lol, where they do that at

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 09:14 AM ----------

Anyone trying to justify not making that trade for the sake of future cap room is completely lost. Only thing this fanbase was looking to was the ability to clear the mess and create room for big contracts, but after seeing what this front office does with cap flexibility, I see no hope smh

[Going Commando]

Crawford has been really good this year. We don't stand a chance to be in these games unless Crawford is shooting. He's the one guy in our lineup who can create off the dribble and get off a shot. Until Wall is back and Nene's minutes restriction is limited, I can live w/ Crawford's chucking.

What's going on w/ Kevin Love in Minnesota is foreshadowing for what's eventually going to happen w/ John Wall.

*edit* still can't get over the fact that we could have had one of the better back courts in the NBA w/ Harden and Wall. SMH. I'm legit tight over this.

A trio of Wall/Harden/Nene is not that good. It's a mid to late seed in the East at best and would never be a contender. We'd tie up all our money in them after extending Wall and have no avenues of improvement. Harden is an All Star, but he would be a fringe All Star at best if SG wasn't so terrible league-wide. Neither Wall nor Nene are All Stars. I'm a fan of both of them, but that construction isn't good enough to get it done without Wall making a mega leap.

[RonArtest15]

A trio of Wall/Harden/Nene is not that good. It's a mid to late seed in the East at best and would never be a contender. We'd tie up all our money in them after extending Wall and have no avenues of improvement. Harden is an All Star, but he would be a fringe All Star at best if SG wasn't so terrible league-wide. Neither Wall nor Nene are All Stars. I'm a fan of both of them, but that construction isn't good enough to get it done without Wall making a mega leap.

You and me have debated this plenty of times, but Wall/Harden/Nene (if healthy) is a real good trio. I think you seriously undervalue what Harden brings to the table. He's a premier SG talent in the league who does MANY things very well. I don't see how you can group him with some of the other SGs in the league, because after him, Wade, and Kobe there is a SERIOUS drop off. Amazing in the open floor and can get to the rim at will. For a team who struggles at finishing at the basket, Harden would be been a gift.

The point of the Oak/Ariza deal was to free up $ in 2014 to lure a young talent here to DC to play with Wall. We could have had that young talent if that deal (Oak/Ariza) was never made. This organization thinks backwards and hardly ever makes sense with their roster moves. I'm perplexed as to why we never pulled the trigger on this deal. Awful, awful foresight by Grunfeld and Co. Just awful.

[Going Commando]

Anyone trying to justify not making that trade for the sake of future cap room is completely lost. Only thing this fanbase was looking to was the ability to clear the mess and create room for big contracts, but after seeing what this front office does with cap flexibility, I see no hope smh

There are three types of organizations in the NBA: contenders, non contenders with flexibility, and non contenders without flexibility.

Trading for Harden would have made us the third type, which is the type of team you absolutely do not want to be. You either want to be great or horrible because being horrible with flexibility is the only way you'll ever be great in the NBA. You're basically just waiting for the chance to draft a special player.

I think our fan base is willing to settle for mediocrity because they are tired of being a laughingstock. But mediocrity doesn't get us where we should want to be and it doesn't really improve the Wizards brand at all.

The only way the Wizards are going to take a step towards contention is if they change the culture of losing and lack of accountability coming from the FO and then luck into an All Star front court player. That's what this team needs. Not a fringe All Star swing man.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

So anyway, lets get down to reality. What's the upcoming draft looking like? Was talking with Gator Bait about it last night. Is there anyone worth tanking for? The NCAA can go **** itself so I haven't paid any attention to it so far.

[Going Commando]

You and me have debated this plenty of times, but Wall/Harden/Nene (if healthy) is a real good trio. I think you seriously undervalue what Harden brings to the table. He's a premier SG talent in the league who does MANY things very well. I don't see how you can group him with some of the other SGs in the league, because after him, Wade, and Kobe there is a SERIOUS drop off. Amazing in the open floor and can get to the rim at will. For a team who struggles at finishing at the basket, Harden would be been a gift.

The point of the Oak/Ariza deal was to free up $ in 2014 to lure a young talent here to DC to play with Wall. We could have had that young talent if that deal (Oak/Ariza) was never made. This organization thinks backwards and hardly ever makes sense with their roster moves. I'm perplexed as to why we never pulled the trigger on this deal. Awful, awful foresight by Grunfeld and Co. Just awful.

We shouldn't have made the Oak/Ariza deal and I don't think we should have made the Harden deal. Oak/Ariza was just terrible and Harden would not have gotten us to contention. That would have been the final move we could make basically. Too good to get a decent lotto pick, not good enough to contend, no money or trade assets without gutting the construction.

Harden was the best a middling team like the Rockets could do. If you notice, they gave up a lot less for him than we would have with Beal and Singleton. Beal alone is worth a lot more than Lamb or Martin. The Rockets were in purgatory and they'll stay there now.

It's looking more and more like we shouldn't have made the Nene deal either truth be told. We should have dealt JaVale for a short term contract or just let him walk. Last season was a complete loss anyway, trading for Nene was a win now move. Nene is a good player that's useful to any team, but he isn't an All Star big and he gets hurt too much. His contract is a bigger downside than upside for us.

We should have been rebuilding like the Hornets are doing. They are going to be a playoff team in a year or two and they'll be contenders once Anthony Davis reaches his prime.

When EG eventually gets fired, we'll eventually have to tear down this thing down and hopefully we'll be able to deal Nene by then and hopefully we won't have tied ourselves up with any max contracts for undeserving players.

[Hersh]

The point of the Oak/Ariza deal was to free up $ in 2014 to lure a young talent here to DC to play with Wall. We could have had that young talent if that deal (Oak/Ariza) was never made. This organization thinks backwards and hardly ever makes sense with their roster moves. I'm perplexed as to why we never pulled the trigger on this deal. Awful, awful foresight by Grunfeld and Co. Just awful.

I would argue that the last 12 months for the Wizards has been as bad as run for a GM as there has been in pro sports in a long time. First we trade for a player in Nene that was not completely healthy and has a ton of money left on his contract. Then we trade for two players on the downside of their careers and we end up giving up a second round pick instead of receiving compensation for helping a team clear cap space. Finally, I'm still shocked that we actually had the opportunity to land Harden and we didn't. It's utterly ridiculous that we didn't. That would have been a huge steal for this team and frankly anyone suggesting it's good that we didn't land him...well, let's hear what the plan is to rebuild this team. Seriously, who will come here as a free agent that would be better than Harden?

[Going Commando]

So anyway, lets get down to reality. What's the upcoming draft looking like? Was talking with Gator Bait about it last night. Is there anyone worth tanking for? The NCAA can go **** itself so I haven't paid any attention to it so far.

Nope. The class looks mediocre.

We need a big man from it, it's got a lot of solid offerings but no stars.

- Zeller has skills but he's not an elite athlete and doesn't have great length. He'll be a finesse big, sort of a poor man's LaMarcus Aldridge.

- Len is solid all around and has looked good this year periodically but he didn't do anything last year and he doesn't wow you with any one thing he's got except for his height. He's not an elite athlete

- Isaiah Austin has some skills, can shoot and stretch the floor, and has great length but he's rail thin and has tiny legs. He's raw too. He's years away from having an NBA body, much less a well developed game. Huge project.

- Nerlens Noel is probably the best big man prospect in the class. He's got the best body and the best athleticism by far. Good BBall IQ. But he has no skills and is completely raw. He has no touch around the basket and can't dribble at all. No back to the basket game. He truly can only get points on cuts and putbacks and dunks. He will not be able to score at all for a long time in the NBA. Basically he's Vesely in a better body with better athleticism.

- Only heard about Rudy Gobert from DX. Never seen him play, but looking at him, he's another one who is years away from growing into his frame and having the strength to play big minutes in the NBA.

- McAdoo is a big disappointment. No assertiveness nor go to offense. He just blends into the crowd most games. Pretty good at many things, great at nothing. SF/PF tweener.

- Mason Plumlee is a grown man and a SR dominating boys.

- Poythress is pretty good but he can't shoot at all apparently. He's a poor man's MKG, doesn't have the speed and ball handling skills of MKG nor the intangibles that made MKG special. Probably not tall enough to be a true NBA big but not great handles for playing SF.

I'm pretty disappointed with the way this big man class is shaping up. I thought it was going to be a better year. The best players in the class are guards and swing men.

- Shabazz Muhammad is a SG/SF James Harden type. Faster and more athletic than Harden. NBA ready body. But he's been a disappointment on the court so far this year plus he doesn't fill the biggest need we have, which is in the front court.

- Ben McLemore has been pretty nasty this year, great athlete, productive, skilled scorer with elite athleticism but he's a pure SG and we can't afford to take him unless we deal Beal.

- Marcus Smart is an interesting swing man type who can run point, another James Harden type but he's kind of slow and he doesn't have a star mentatlity. He's another glue man. And again, he doesn't really address our needs in the front court. Doesn't really have a true NBA position because of his height and speed.

If we get a top pick, our best bet would be trading it for something valuable. But I've read teams are trying to trade out of top picks this year, not trade up for them. It's looking like our best realistic option would be to take Shabazz for his scoring skills because he's NBA ready and can help stop the bleeding next year but you'd have to get creative with ways to get him and Beal on the court together. Play a lot of small ball.

The other best realistic option is to just go for upside and draft Nerlens Noel. He's smart and has the potential to be a dominant physical force in the NBA. You'd just have to draft him and pray he actually develops some offensive skills on his own some how. The team and the fanbase would have to hold their horses and be patient with him because he's going to take forever. But this team needs a high upside big man to be able to make the improbable leap into being a contender and he's the only one who seems to fit that bill in this class.

The 2014 class is looking leaps and bounds better. It's got a once in a blue moon talent at SF in Andrew Wiggins and a pretty nasty PF type in Julius Randle. Plus Jabari Parker looks pretty damn good, if a bit slow footed. Some Carmelo in him with that size and array of skills. Aaron Gordon is good. The Harrison twins are good. It just looks like a much better class. Unfortunately, I don't think we can afford to be this bad again next year and we'll probably be trying to claw our way into the late lottery or low seeds by then. If Wall and Nene are mostly healthy next year, we wouldn't be bad enough to get a top seed for one of the elite guys in that class.

We're pretty much screwed as is. We need to replace the entire FO and start making deals to try and tear this thing down and start anew with the RIGHT people in charge this time.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 10:58 AM ----------

I would argue that the last 12 months for the Wizards has been as bad as run for a GM as there has been in pro sports in a long time. First we trade for a player in Nene that was not completely healthy and has a ton of money left on his contract. Then we trade for two players on the downside of their careers and we end up giving up a second round pick instead of receiving compensation for helping a team clear cap space. Finally, I'm still shocked that we actually had the opportunity to land Harden and we didn't. It's utterly ridiculous that we didn't. That would have been a huge steal for this team and frankly anyone suggesting it's good that we didn't land him...well, let's hear what the plan is to rebuild this team. Seriously, who will come here as a free agent that would be better than Harden?

It's not just about free agency. It's about flexibility, which includes being able to sign extensions for your own talent and make unbalanced trades. Most teams are not FA draws for the very top guys. Most teams have to draft their franchise players or get them in trades. So far as I can tell, LeBron is the ONLY franchise player to ever hit the open market and leave in FA and Bosh is one of the only top notch big men to do so. Was Miami an NBA destination before then? It's a nice city but no. They wanted to play with each other and Wade and that was it. Those circumstances aren't likely to happen again for any team. And Harden is not Wade. He would not draw his generation's best stars to come and play with him here. He doesn't catapult a team into the playoffs on his own. But between him and Nene and the eventual contract extension we would HAVE to give Wall (best player we can get in this construction), we'd have all our money tied up and no other avenues of improvement. We'd be stuck with a non contending late seed made up of fringe All Stars for the forseeable future.

Signing a player to a max deal who doesn't deserve it has never worked out well for an organization. It's basically a surefire way to never contend with him on your roster.

And it's worth remembering that no one player can come here and turn us around. The culture of failure in DC is systemic.

Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee are currently 7th and 8th in the NBA in PER this season. 24.6 and 23.7 respectively. It's not a coincidence that their level of play exploded as soon as they left. Yet they were useless scrubs here. We're a third rate organization and we get third rate results from any player we put into the system.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Yes.

And you can absolutely learn to improve your ball handling at any point in life. Saying you can't is letting the organization and our players off the hook. Advanced dribbles and off hand speed and comfort can always be learned and improved. Many NBA players do it. It takes hours of work, just like improving shooting. Our players just aren't doing it and I doubt the organization has told them they need to or offered to help them.

im not letting anyone off the hook, im telling its hard as hell to improve your handles as you age. You rarely, if ever, see an NBA player come into the league with no handles and then improve to competent. It doesnt happen. Players improve what they are good at because what they are good at is what got them in the league. Improving your handles takes a lot of time and effort that its not even worth it. Again, these arent kids. These are grown ass men. It doesnt happen.

The only thing you see an improvement on is shooting, and even then that is hard as well to get better.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 11:17 AM ----------

A trio of Wall/Harden/Nene is not that good. It's a mid to late seed in the East at best and would never be a contender. We'd tie up all our money in them after extending Wall and have no avenues of improvement. Harden is an All Star, but he would be a fringe All Star at best if SG wasn't so terrible league-wide. Neither Wall nor Nene are All Stars. I'm a fan of both of them, but that construction isn't good enough to get it done without Wall making a mega leap.

that would F'ing suck, tbf. A mid to late seed in the east (and we wouldnt, we would def be a higher seed than that). Its so much worse than being the worst team in the NBA year after year.

[SuperBash]

How are people feeling about Beal after the past few games?

[Going Commando]

im not letting anyone off the hook, im telling its hard as hell to improve your handles as you age. You rarely, if ever, see an NBA player come into the league with no handles and then improve to competent. It doesnt happen. Players improve what they are good at because what they are good at is what got them in the league. Improving your handles takes a lot of time and effort that its not even worth it. Again, these arent kids. These are grown ass men. It doesnt happen.

The only thing you see an improvement on is shooting, and even then that is hard as well to get better.

Good players improve their handles. Failures don't, which is why you haven't seen it here. You see guys develop comfort level and ability to drive with their off hand. You see guys develop their array of finishes in transition. You see guards learn advanced ball handling techniques to keep their heads up while they drive and look for passes. You see post players learn an array of power dribbles to get them better looks at the basket. I'd argue Seraphin has improved quite a bit here--on his own time or in France most likely.

You're right that it is hard as hell to do which is why a lot of guys never take the time to do it. You could spend four hours a day all summer doing nothing but dribble training but eventually you would see results. You would see your tactile sense of the ball improve by miles, increased hand speed, increased techniques for escapes and in general it just unlocks the entire floor for you. It's just not something our players seem interested in developing. All of the focus has been on trying to learn to shoot--which is absolutely necessary and basic too.

But if you're an athletic combo forward who lacks the size to be a true big like Singleton, Ves, and Booker, why not put your heart into learning to dribble so you can thrive from the wing?

[No Excuses]

Pretty much done with this franchise. Don't think I'll watch another game this season and possibly ever again. The NBA is dead to me.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

How are people feeling about Beal after the past few games?

he looks like he could be a decent complimentary player. Shame he was picked #3 overall.

Really needs to improve his shooting.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yeah I've been a Wiz fan for literally ALL of my life. I mean for whatever reason I have more vivid memories of the Bullets in the late 80's than I do the Redskins. But it's getting really hard for me. And I'm not going to lie, the success of the Nats and now the Skins has a lot to do with it. I'm a busy man with a busy schedule. I only have so much time to spend on ****. Only so many emotions I can expend on ****ing sports. I'm still going to follow the team, follow this thread, follow the news and all that. But I just can't find it in me to go out of my way for the Wizards. No more DVRing games and staying up until 3AM to watch them. Just really, really sad man.

And on a side note, basketball in general is dying to me. It's a beautiful, wonderful sport. Just great. But the leagues behind it--the NBA and the NCAA--are just epic disasters. Maryland leaving the ACC was the nail in the coffin for the NCAA for me and David Stern is still Stalin-lite and a living, breathing POS. Anyone who really thinks he's "retiring" and won't have any say in the NBA is fooling themselves.

Edited December 12, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Going Commando]

How are people feeling about Beal after the past few games?

I'm more encouraged than I was early on but my expectations for him have been lowered. I don't see a star mentality in him. I see a solid all around basketball player but he doesn't have that instinct to go out and score relentlessly. He doesn't have the mindset to demand the ball in crunch time or take over the offense for stretches. He doesn't have the ability to prop up a team into playoff contention on his own.

I think he's a good #2 or #3 on a contender. Best case scenario is as a kind of a poor man's Ray Allen only more physical. Allen wasn't enough on his own to prop a fringe team up into playoff contention but put him on the Cs with a HoFer big like KG and an All Star wing in Pierce and he was an essential cog of an elite team.

I would probably keep Beal if I planned to tear the team down for a rebuild. But I also would deal him if I had a chance at a franchise player.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 11:45 AM ----------

Pretty much done with this franchise. Don't think I'll watch another game this season and possibly ever again. The NBA is dead to me.

Yeah I've been a Wiz fan for literally ALL of my life. I mean for whatever reason I have more vivid memories of the Bullets in the late 80's than I do the Redskins. But it's getting really hard for me. And I'm not going to lie, the success of the Nats and now the Skins has a lot to do with it. I'm a busy man with a busy schedule. I only have so much time to spend on ****. Only so many emotions I can expend on ****ing sports. I'm still going to follow the team, follow this thread, follow the news and all that. But I just can't find it in me to go out of my way for the Wizards. No more DVRing games and staying up until 3AM to watch them. Just really, really sad man.

And on a side note, basketball in general is dying to me. It's a beautiful, wonderful sport. Just great. But the leagues behind it--the NBA and the NCAA--are just epic disasters. Maryland leaving the ACC was the nail in the coffin for the NCAA for me and David Stern is still Stalin-lite and a living, breathing POS. Anyone who really thinks he's "retiring" and won't have any say in the NBA is fooling themselves.

If they cleaned house in the FO entirely and brought in someone good to GM who did like Sam Presti and made sustainable contention the absolute priority, would you regain your interest?

[pjfootballer]

Pretty much done with this franchise. Don't think I'll watch another game this season and possibly ever again. The NBA is dead to me.

Yeah I've been a Wiz fan for literally ALL of my life. I mean for whatever reason I have more vivid memories of the Bullets in the late 80's than I do the Redskins. But it's getting really hard for me. And I'm not going to lie, the success of the Nats and now the Skins has a lot to do with it. I'm a busy man with a busy schedule. I only have so much time to spend on ****. Only so many emotions I can expend on ****ing sports. I'm still going to follow the team, follow this thread, follow the news and all that. But I just can't find it in me to go out of my way for the Wizards. No more DVRing games and staying up until 3AM to watch them. Just really, really sad man.

And on a side note, basketball in general is dying to me. It's a beautiful, wonderful sport. Just great. But the leagues behind it--the NBA and the NCAA--are just epic disasters. Maryland leaving the ACC was the nail in the coffin for the NCAA for me and David Stern is still Stalin-lite and a living, breathing POS. Anyone who really thinks he's "retiring" and won't have any say in the NBA is fooling themselves.

I see everyone is joining me in the "I've had enough of the Wheezers and NBA club." Welcome. There is no membership fee. The only thing asked of you is to not root for another team or watch a complete NBA from start to finish. Snacks and Drinks are on the back table by the door.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 11:51 AM ----------

If they cleaned house in the FO entirely and brought in someone good to GM who did like Sam Presti and made sustainable contention the absolute priority, would you regain your interest?

No. I don't know enough about NBA executives or front office types. What WILL bring me back is a 50 win season, sustained playoff appearances and a chance at a title. I'm still waiting for that 35 year rebuilding plan to finally pay off.

Edited December 12, 2012 by pjfootballer

[RonArtest15]

Yup...we dropped the ball on the Harden deal. The Oak/Ariza trade wouldn't have hindered Harden's long term money here either. It's a damn shame.

I kinda echo some of everyone's sentiments about how hard it is to stay loyal to this team. They REALLY test your patience as a fan. It shouldn't be that way. I think I might feel differently if promises (amongst other things) weren't made by the front office about the direction of the franchise. It's nothing but gum flapping. Something bold has to be done in the very near future to show this city that they are serious about building a competitive team with a high ceiling. I still stand my my POV that the Harden trade WOULD have been that type of a bold move, but hindsight is 20/20.

Wizards will always be my #1 basketball team, but are no longer a priority for my TV viewing or going to the games. I watched more of the Nets/Knicks game last night than I did of the home team. I wanted to see good basketball, so sue me. LOL.

This is not a dumb fanbase by any means. Just look at this thread. A lot of knowledgeable dudes in here who are passionate about the team and want them to succeed. However, you've turned some of the most optimistic fans (like me, at one point) into a cynic. It shouldn't be that way. Until there are MAJOR changes, I will no longer look at any move this organization makes with a glass-half full type of viewpoint. I'm done in that regard.

[Going Commando]

If I were rebuilding this franchise as it's new GM I would basically do everything I could to ensure I got a top two pick in 2014. That would be my plan. I don't know how you go about doing it but that's all I've got.

I'd also begin replacing the training staff my first day.

[Hersh]

It's not just about free agency. It's about flexibility, which includes being able to sign extensions for your own talent and make unbalanced trades. Most teams are not FA draws for the very top guys. Most teams have to draft their franchise players or get them in trades. So far as I can tell, LeBron is the ONLY franchise player to ever hit the open market and leave in FA and Bosh is one of the only top notch big men to do so. Was Miami an NBA destination before then? It's a nice city but no. They wanted to play with each other and Wade and that was it. Those circumstances aren't likely to happen again for any team. And Harden is not Wade. He would not draw his generation's best stars to come and play with him here. He doesn't catapult a team into the playoffs on his own. But between him and Nene and the eventual contract extension we would HAVE to give Wall (best player we can get in this construction), we'd have all our money tied up and no other avenues of improvement. We'd be stuck with a non contending late seed made up of fringe All Stars for the forseeable future.

Signing a player to a max deal who doesn't deserve it has never worked out well for an organization. It's basically a surefire way to never contend with him on your roster.

And it's worth remembering that no one player can come here and turn us around. The culture of failure in DC is systemic.

Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee are currently 7th and 8th in the NBA in PER this season. 24.6 and 23.7 respectively. It's not a coincidence that their level of play exploded as soon as they left. Yet they were useless scrubs here. We're a third rate organization and we get third rate results from any player we put into the system.

With the collection of players currently on this team, why does flexibility to re-sign guys become a priority over a player like James Harden. Harden is better than everybody on the roster, including Wall. In fact, given Wall's injury, there is no telling if he will be an effective player in this league again. He thrived with his athletic ability and now he has a very serious knee injury. If this organization won't start building around a guy like Harden, who will they build around?

[Going Commando]

Yup...we dropped the ball on the Harden deal. The Oak/Ariza trade wouldn't have hindered Harden's long term money here either. It's a damn shame.

I kinda echo some of everyone's sentiments about how hard it is to stay loyal to this team. They REALLY test your patience as a fan. It shouldn't be that way. I think I might feel differently if promises (amongst other things) weren't made by the front office about the direction of the franchise. It's nothing but gum flapping. Something bold has to be done in the very near future to show this city that they are serious about building a competitive team with a high ceiling. I still stand my my POV that the Harden trade WOULD have been that type of a bold move, but hindsight is 20/20.

Wizards will always be my #1 basketball team, but are no longer a priority for my TV viewing or going to the games. I watched more of the Nets/Knicks game last night than I did of the home team. I wanted to see good basketball, so sue me. LOL.

This is not a dumb fanbase by any means. Just look at this thread. A lot of knowledgeable dudes in here who are passionate about the team and want them to succeed. However, you've turned some of the most optimistic fans (like me, at one point) into a cynic. It shouldn't be that way. Until there are MAJOR changes, I will no longer look at any move this organization makes with a glass-half full type of viewpoint. I'm done in that regard.

A Harden deal would have reinvigorated the fan base in the short term. He's a good player and it would have been a welcome relief to watch a good player and win enough games to not be a national punchline. We're a desperate fan base.

But after a little while we'd get used to being mediocre and our expectations and standards would no longer be so depressingly low. We'd be frustrated by our inability to contend and we'd know that we're wasting our time with the current construction and that we'd inevitably have to blow the thing up.

It's basically the exact same thing the Hawks have gone through.