The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

I still think the biggest thing holding this team back this season, other than potential injuries, will be Wittman's horrible offense.  Hopefully Gortat will be allowed to run the type of pick n roll he ran with Nash but we don't seem to do much of that.  When Wall drives it's almost always a drive and kick situation.  Maybe I'm crazy but do you guys remember Wall getting a lot of assists to Nene or Okafor going to the rim?  I don't.  I'm not talking about the occasional lob city dunk but the pick n roll bounce pass, the kind of thing that's drawn up as opposed to a quick reaction.  When they were involved in a play it was usually getting them free around the foul line for a open shot.  

 

I know exactly what you mean.  Yeah, we ran pick and fade with Nene and Oak and very rarely ran a PnR with them.  

 

But I think the reason we did that is because they pretty much got open shots from that spot every single time.  Neither were consistent with that jumper last season though, so it blunted the impact of the play.

 

I think it's because neither were great PnR finishers last season.  Nene really didn't have the first step or the lift he used to and Oak is not a particularly quick or agile player.  When they got inside finishes, I think it wasn't necessarily off PnRs, more from entry passes where they were already around the rim.

 

And the pick and fade is always going to be easiest for us because of Wall's speed and legitimate danger to finish the play himself.  He'll draw the help every single time.

 

It really sucks that Vesely can't shoot and can't shoot FTs.  He'd be a good PnR weapon because he's an active screener with an explosive first step and hops.

 

It also sucks that we haven't found a PF that is an exemplary jump shooter.  Maybe Otto can be a pick and fade weapon?

It also removes the "our big was injured" excuse from Grunfeld's arsenal. If we don't make the playoffs for whatever reason, he has to be gone. Even if we lose, we win.

 

If we don't make the playoffs, Ted doesn't even have to fire Ernie.  All he has to do is not give him even more money.

[Going Commando]

Re: not picking up the option for Ves and Singleton, it was the only option that made sense.  Singleton is basically done here and even if we want to retain Vesely beyond this season, he's not worth the 4.5 million dollar cap hit from his rookie deal.  You should be able to sign him back for less than half of that IMO.

 

I think he goes into the summer an RFA right?  So if for some reason another team actually wants to sign him but we want to keep him, we could match the offer.

 

The only risk to not picking up Ves's option is the bizarre scenario where Vesely totally goes off and shocks the world with a big year and plays his way into a lot more money than that 4.5 million.  But even if that did happen, that's kind of a great problem isn't it?

 

So after that, I've got our cap number at 43.2 million for next season for these players:

 

1.) Wall

2.) Nene

3.) Webster

4.) Beal

5.) Porter

6.) Maynor

 

At the very least, we could easily keep our team intact.  If the cap is at like 62 million, we can certainly make a max offer.  Might not be anyone out there to max though.  Maybe Monroe?  I still like Monroe for us, but he's an RFA.

 

Or we could save our powder this summer and bring back guys like Oak and Gortat on short term deals.  Then you keep the decks clear for the summer of 2016.  Nene expires and you could decline Martell's option that year and basically all you would have is Wall and Porter's final option year on the books.  You could negotiate with Beal and then make a big run at Kevin Durant or, a bit more realistically, Kevin Love.

[No Excuses]

Loser franchises attract no one. If having gortat helps us make the playoffs then it is a good move. The only problem with that is Ernie is not good at convincing people to come here. Never did it with arenas. If we make the playoffs we end up as a mid seed team for the remaining years.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Loser franchises attract no one. If having gortat helps us make the playoffs then it is a good move. The only problem with that is Ernie is not good at convincing people to come here. Never did it with arenas. If we make the playoffs we end up as a mid seed team for the remaining years.

When the time comes it won't be Ernie convincing people to come here.

 

It will be Wall/Beal/Leonsis.

 

 

Welcome home Kevin Durant.....

[StillUnknown]

http://www.csnwashington.com/wizards/what-factors-led-wizards-trade-gortat

 

 

At the end of the video, J. Michael said he'd be surprised if Otto is back before the end of November.

 

Day to day though......

[RonArtest15]

Still don't love the trade, but I'm not nearly as vexed about it as when I heard the news drop last night. 

 

The team will have EXCELLENT cap flexibility in 2014, so they may be gearing up to offer Greg Monroe a max deal. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Still don't love the trade, but I'm not nearly as vexed about it as when I heard the news drop last night. 

 

The team will have EXCELLENT cap flexibility in 2014, so they may be gearing up to offer Greg Monroe a max deal. 

Personally, I'm going after KD in 2016.

 

Assuming he doesn't sign an extension of course.

Edited October 26, 2013 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

Greg Monroe is an RFA.  No guarantee that we'll get him.  We could offer max money and Detroit could still match.  Or deal him sometime during the season to a team that will extend him.  The only way for us to be pretty sure we can get Monroe is to trade for him.  But I didn't see us having the assets to deal for him before the Gortat trade, and I definitely don't see it now.

 

I actually don't really like this FA class.  It's still so early that we don't know who is going to get extensions yet.  But among the vets, I don't think anyone actually worth a max deal is going to be available this summer.  

 

Carmelo and Miami's big 3 are all going to opt into their final years or stay put IMO.  Dirk is going to stay in Dallas.

 

Pau Gasol?  Luol Deng?  Paul Pierce?  I don't really like the idea of bidding on any of them.  Definitely don't feel comfortable going after Bogut or Danny Granger.

 

We definitely don't need to be spending any money on any guards.

 

This really isn't a very good UFA class when you realize LeBron and Carmelo and Bosh and Wade aren't realistically going to be a part of it.

 

That leaves you with a handful of RFAs and that's tricky.  Big money RFAs don't usually change teams.

[No Excuses]

I really don't see a major downside to this trade. This team is at the point where investing development time in a mid round first pick is simply not possible.

 

There are three top-3 draft picks on the roster. You just can't continue to stock pile first round picks and hope that the rest of our players pan out as well. Wall and Beal need to be on a winning roster even if the current ceiling for this team is 40-45 wins. 

 

Setting expectations is a good thing. Ideally, this team should be great if Wall and Beal are playing up to their potential. Adding Gortat rounds out the roster. Nene no longer has to play C since Gortat and Seraphin can take the 48 minutes at that spot. Booker becomes a valuable 3rd big man off the bench and Vesely can give energy/fouls as the 5th big man on the roster (sad).

 

I'm fairly excited to hopefully see a competitive team this year. I think Gortat is a really good player.

[Destino]

I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, we ran pick and fade with Nene and Oak and very rarely ran a PnR with them.

But I think the reason we did that is because they pretty much got open shots from that spot every single time. Neither were consistent with that jumper last season though, so it blunted the impact of the play.

I think it's because neither were great PnR finishers last season. Nene really didn't have the first step or the lift he used to and Oak is not a particularly quick or agile player. When they got inside finishes, I think it wasn't necessarily off PnRs, more from entry passes where they were already around the rim.

And the pick and fade is always going to be easiest for us because of Wall's speed and legitimate danger to finish the play himself. He'll draw the help every single time.

It really sucks that Vesely can't shoot and can't shoot FTs. He'd be a good PnR weapon because he's an active screener with an explosive first step and hops.

It also sucks that we haven't found a PF that is an exemplary jump shooter. Maybe Otto can be a pick and fade weapon?

If we don't make the playoffs, Ted doesn't even have to fire Ernie. All he has to do is not give him even more money.

Well Gortat has shown that he can finish at the rim and run the PnR. He did it with Nash wonderfully. Hopefully we see some of that because if everything with Wall is a pass to a spot up shot the offense slows down and defenses have too easy a time forcing lower percentage options. I would feel so much better about this team if we had a better coaching staff. Two shooters, two big bodies that can score, and a potentially all star point guard? That should make for a good versatile offense. Instead I'm betting we see guys standing around and depending entirely on Wall to create.

[Warhead36]

Durant's contract expires the same year as Nene's and Beal's. Best case scenario, come 2016(the year of Decision II aka Durant's FA), we let Nene's contract expire, use all our space to sign Durant, then go over the cap to resign Beal since we'll have his Bird Rights.

 

2016-2017 lineup:

 

PG-Wall

SG-Beal

SF-Porter

PF-Durant

C-Gortat

 

With Lebron's declining right around this time(he'll be 31 by this time), we'll be read to take over as the next NBA superteam.

 

If Ernie and Ted were smart, they'd try to plan our moves with Durant in mind in 2016. We should not acquire anyone who's under contract past 2016(already have Wall which is fine).

Edited October 26, 2013 by Warhead36

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

This thread is funny. Thoughts on the trade were immediate hate, just because. Then the slow warm up to it

[Hersh]

This thread is funny. Thoughts on the trade were immediate hate, just because. Then the slow warm up to it

 

I think it's tough to really judge the trade right now because of the protected nature of the pick traded. However, I don't think just making the playoffs only to get eliminated in the first round is a good reason to get rid of a valuable asset for Gortat. I would feel differently if it wasn't supposed to be the best draft in years or if it was the 2015 first round pick instead. If the Wiz were going to move this particular pick, I would have tried to do it early in the off season and couple it with Nene's contract. People thinking the Wiz currently will have all sorts of cap space to offer a max contract isn't exactly right if this team wants to have any depth at all.

 

The constant missing on 1st round picks by EG has really put this franchise in a terrible position.

[StillUnknown]

 

The constant missing on 1st round picks by EG has really put this franchise in a terrible position.

 

This is what Grunfeld doesn't talk about. Had he hit on any one of Ves/Seraphin/Booker, this move for Gortat would not be necessary. 

 

If the pick isn't super obvious, chances are strong that he will blow it. Some have stated they are cool with the trade because they don't trust Grunfeld with a mid-round pick anyway. That is a terrible position to be in, trading assets simply because you don't trust the guy making decisions to get anything of value.

 

I still like the deal, but we were operating from a weak position.

[Hersh]

This is what Grunfeld doesn't talk about. Had he hit on any one of Ves/Seraphin/Booker, this move for Gortat would not be necessary. 

 

If the pick isn't super obvious, chances are strong that he will blow it. Some have stated they are cool with the trade because they don't trust Grunfeld with a mid-round pick anyway. That is a terrible position to be in, trading assets simply because you don't trust the guy making decisions to get anything of value.

 

I still like the deal, but we were operating from a weak position.

 

Another problem with EG is that he doesn't seem to know how to posture that the team is operating from a position of strength. I still can't believe he didn't get a 1st round pick when helping New Orleans clear cap space. I wish we knew what the negotiations were like and what was offered initially. 

[Chachie]

This thread is funny. Thoughts on the trade were immediate hate, just because. Then the slow warm up to it

 

 

I like Gortat as long as Nene stays healthy. Nice front court. However, if (when) Nene goes down, we go awkward at center.

[Destino]

I like Gortat as long as Nene stays healthy. Nice front court. However, if (when) Nene goes down, we go awkward at center.

Gortat is likely to start at center. Nene at PF. If Nene goes down Harrington and Booker will likely just see their minutes increase.

[Chachie]

Gortat is likely to start at center. Nene at PF. If Nene goes down Harrington and Booker will likely just see their minutes increase.

 

 

 

Indeed, I'm aware. I just feel like Gortat will shine as long as he has Nene at PF. With Harrington or Booker, I see us getting a less effective Gortat. I'm speculating here. We haven't seen yet how this will go but that's how I'm feeling about the trade. 

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think it's tough to really judge the trade right now because of the protected nature of the pick traded. However, I don't think just making the playoffs only to get eliminated in the first round is a good reason to get rid of a valuable asset for Gortat. I would feel differently if it wasn't supposed to be the best draft in years or if it was the 2015 first round pick instead. If the Wiz were going to move this particular pick, I would have tried to do it early in the off season and couple it with Nene's contract. People thinking the Wiz currently will have all sorts of cap space to offer a max contract isn't exactly right if this team wants to have any depth at all.

The constant missing on 1st round picks by EG has really put this franchise in a terrible position.

I understand what you're saying, but even in a good draft we're talking about a pick in the teens. We're talking about a Nick Young, a Javale McGee, a Juan Dixon. I'd trade any and all of them for a the relevancy of the playoffs. Even if it is a 1st round exit

[StillUnknown]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/john-wall-on-adding-gortat-10-26-13

 

 

Wall speaking on the Gortat trade. Near the end of the interview he touches on his lackluster preseaon. He seems to have a good grip on what went wrong for him.

Edited October 26, 2013 by StillUnknown

[JoeWolf990]

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball-washington-wizards/talk/wizards-will-decline-options-vesely-singleton

 

 

I remember when that idiot John Feinstein said Marshall would be better at running a team than Wall

2011 NBA draft picks. Basically 2 busts. This is why Im not upset about losing that pick. He is terrible with the draft.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

2011 NBA draft picks. Basically 2 busts. This is why Im not upset about losing that pick. He is terrible with the draft.

This isn't a defense of Ernie so please nobody take it like that.

What GMs actually are good at the draft? There can't be many. Think/wonder if that's just the nature of the NBA draft. Total crapshoot outside the obvious can't misses that even a 13 year old could hit on (Lebron, Durant, Beal(?), etc).

Edited October 27, 2013 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Skin'emAlive]

Ok, i havent commented on this trade yet. Needed some time to think about it. Firstly, I think Gortat is clearly on his downside. He sucked last year, sucked in international play, and is in the last year of his contract. On top of that, there is word that he has a bit of an attitude. That being said, Okafor wasnt going to come back the same this year. A disc injury is a disc injury. Nothing more serious than that. And it was painfully obvious our team was going to get murder-death-killed with the PF flotsam. Seraphin is the only serviceable big man we have, and he is better off coming off the bench.

 

So we had no choice but to go after someone, or the season would have been thrown away before it even began. I dont agree with giving up a 1st, but if this team sucked enough to be in the lottery again, there was going to be some serious changes. Secondly, it sucks that we are giving up a terrific asset in Okafor's $14 mil expiring contract AND a 1st. But that first was going to be in the mid level ( singleton range). Only way we do something with that pick is if Ernie is out the door. And lets face it, he isnt leaving if we are drafting in the mid-level range.

 

On the positive side, with the loss of Ves, Singleton, Ariza, Gortat.... we will have enough room to sign a FA to a decent contract. ( Provided we make this team look good enough to attract anyone this year). Maybe Chris Bosh? Id certainly be happy with that move. Another positive is Nene stays at PF. With him at the 5 i predicted he would be out within 5 games.

 

Regarding Otto.... Im not too upset with him not playing right now. He wasnt going to get much time before the trade deadline. Once Ariza is gone, then he will take over his spot. No big loss for me at the moment. Hope he gets healthy soon though so he can learn some nuances of the game.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

2011 NBA draft picks. Basically 2 busts. This is why Im not upset about losing that pick. He is terrible with the draft.

To be fair, that draft really was as ****ty as everyone was predicting it to be.

[Going Commando]

This thread is funny. Thoughts on the trade were immediate hate, just because. Then the slow warm up to it

 

Pop on over to RealGM and read a 30 page thread of much the same thing.  That place gets ten times more shrill than this thread ever does.

 

Fans will stop whining about it after Gortat ends up playing well and the team makes the playoffs.  I am looking forward to the playoffs so much this year.  I am actually confident the Wizards will be there.

 

We hated the Okafor/Ariza trade.  Then we didn't when they actually turned out to be pretty good.