The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Rocky21]

holy****

you just scared the crap outta me. Thought that really happened lol

+2

I ran over to the Wizards WaPo blog and signed a sigh of relief. Nothing EG does surprises me at this point.

[Thinking Skins]

How many posts are in this thread? I'm seeing 14840, but at the top it says 14850.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 05:48 PM ----------

OK, now it says 14841.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

the forum is broken. Servers need to be reset or an upgrade or something.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

when are we just gonna make a new thread?

[Going Commando]

and that takes a lot of pressure off Beal...I feel like that's his issue now

He's pressing

I think it's the other way around. He's nervous and trying to figure out how to fit his game in at the NBA level so he's playing too hesitant. He's thinking too much and not just playing ball. It's alright though, he's a rookie. He'll get some experience and some confidence.

[Samuels]

I did'nt like the Beal pick from jumpstreet but I thought Lamb was by far the most dynamic 2 guard in the draft. He will never be a alpha anything best case is he is a good #2 or #3 option on a contender.

This organization has just sucked the life out of me. I can remember Jeff Malone,Bernard King, Mugsy, Manute i've been watching this team since I was very young. I just can't get excited or up for them anymore I used to never miss a game nowadays I could care less if I miss one.

This team will pick top 5 once again to watch Grunfeld piss it away. Just like taking Jan over Leonard 2 years ago just foolish I said it then, i'll say it now.

I said we shoulda traded for Harden useing the pick but a bunch said he would'nt succeed with teams keying on him. Lets just say he would be far and away the best player this team has and give us a legit end game option.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Samuels

[Thinking Skins]

Hopefully, having Seraphin back will help us out tomorrow night. He can probably help create points in the paint

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 09:45 PM ----------

I love how the Spurs are penetrating and fishing it out for the open three. There is actual movement on offense, not just guys standing around and passing it, waiting for an open shot. But I digress.

[Going Commando]

I did'nt like the Beal pick from jumpstreet but I thought Lamb was by far the most dynamic 2 guard in the draft. He will never be a alpha anything best case is he is a good #2 or #3 option on a contender.

This organization has just sucked the life out of me. I can remember Jeff Malone,Bernard King, Mugsy, Manute i've been watching this team since I was very young. I just can't get excited or up for them anymore I used to never miss a game nowadays I could care less if I miss one.

This team will pick top 5 once again to watch Grunfeld piss it away. Just like taking Jan over Leonard 2 years ago just foolish I said it then, i'll say it now.

I said we shoulda traded for Harden useing the pick but a bunch said he would'nt succeed with teams keying on him. Lets just say he would be far and away the best player this team has and give us a legit end game option.

Leonard would have been bad at 6. You take upside when you pick that high and Ves definitely has higher upside. He's a seven footer. We would have no length now if not for him.

Ves will be alright. If we wanted Leonard, we should have dealt for him at 15 with Indiana like the Spurs did. All they gave up was George Hill and some other bits and got some bits back plus Leonard. It wouldn't have been that hard.

Beal is going to be a good player. Better than Nick Young Jr. I'm sorry but Lamb is a straight up knuckle head. There is a reason everyone in basketball loves Beal and thinks he's going to good. There is a reason Beal was OKC's first choice and they tried to get him at 2 in the Harden deal.

[the burgundy and gold]

Ugh I kind of wish I could respond to every post off the last few pages, unfortunately I rarely visit this thread and tend to stick with other Wizards fan sites. I agree with what a lot of people are saying, the management/ownership of this team has been pathetic. We're a large market that could attract big stars, especially since we have Wall. I like the idea of having Wall, Beal, Nene and Seraphin as a core group. But right now Nene is way too injury prone. I liked the trade initially but as of now it seems like Nene is gonna be injured forever, therefore greatly decreasing the value of that trade. If Nene is ever at full 100% strength, I will be pleased with the trade. I think with the roster we have right now, if every player was 100% healthy, we would be in the playoffs as a 6-8 seed.

While it's obviously tough not to, I really don't think we can judge the team yet. If once Wall, Seraphin and Nene come back and we're still struggling then by all means judge away. I have confidence in Wall and Seraphin, hopefully Beal can produce as well. But yeah overall I agree EG/Ted has not done well thus far.

Also another note:

I think I'd rather have Wall, Seraphin, Beal and Nene over Wall, Nene and Harden. Thoughts?

Edited November 2, 2012 by the burgundy and gold

[Thinking Skins]

I like the idea of having Wall, Beal, Nene and Seraphin as a core group. But right now Nene is way too injury prone. I liked the trade initially but as of now it seems like Nene is gonna be injured forever, therefore greatly decreasing the value of that trade. If Nene is ever at full 100% strength, I will be pleased with the trade. I think with the roster we have right now, if every player was 100% healthy, we would be in the playoffs as a 6-8 seed.

While it's obviously tough not to, I really don't think we can judge the team yet. If once Wall, Seraphin and Nene come back and we're still struggling then by all means judge away. I have confidence in Wall and Seraphin, hopefully Beal can produce as well. But yeah overall I agree EG/Ted has not done well thus far.

I pretty much agree with this. I was really negative about our execution the other night, but I think we have a good group of players who if they execute properly can win some games. I'm not sure about Beal, Webster, Singleton and most of that second group, but I think that the core of Wall, Seraphin, Nene and Okafur gives us some credibility. If we can compliment that with the outside shooting of Beal, Webster and Price (and Martin if he gets to play) then its great. But I think we need to establish an identity first and to me that identity should revolve around our bigs with complimentary outside shooting.....of course to actually establish that identity we need our bigs healthy which we haven't had just yet. I just think that if we'd have had Seraphin inside instead of Booker (sorry Booker), we'd have had a much better game because he has a much better offensive handle than Okafur so we can dish it to him and his shots have a higher chance of going in.

---------- Post added November-2nd-2012 at 06:55 AM ----------

Leonard would have been bad at 6. You take upside when you pick that high and Ves definitely has higher upside. He's a seven footer. We would have no length now if not for him.

Ves will be alright. If we wanted Leonard, we should have dealt for him at 15 with Indiana like the Spurs did. All they gave up was George Hill and some other bits and got some bits back plus Leonard. It wouldn't have been that hard.

Beal is going to be a good player. Better than Nick Young Jr. I'm sorry but Lamb is a straight up knuckle head. There is a reason everyone in basketball loves Beal and thinks he's going to good. There is a reason Beal was OKC's first choice and they tried to get him at 2 in the Harden deal.

I disagree. I think potential is a great thing, but how many guys have we drafted based on that. I think I was saying at the time that we should try to trade down from 6, and if no options were there we should just go with who we think was best. Vesely is a good talent, but in my opinion, this team has too much "potential" already. If we're going to criticize Ernie, then I think he falls in love with potential too much and doesn't draft the legit player enough. I thought Leonard was a guy who could come in and be an anchor (kinda like I thought Singleton could be) to help establish more of a defensive identity. Maybe Singleton gets it together this year because he looked better this offseason and being a rookie in a lockout shortened season must be a difficult thing. We can go back and forth about how perfect San Antonio is for him and as an environment for him to develop, but what I see there that i'd like to see here is instead of drafting potential players like Nick Young and Andre Blatche and Javelle McGee amongst others they continuously draft and sign players with high basketball IQs that fit into that Spurs team environment and don't do stupid stuff. I wish we could get on that level.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Thinking Skins

[RonArtest15]

Ugh I kind of wish I could respond to every post off the last few pages, unfortunately I rarely visit this thread and tend to stick with other Wizards fan sites. I agree with what a lot of people are saying, the management/ownership of this team has been pathetic. We're a large market that could attract big stars, especially since we have Wall. I like the idea of having Wall, Beal, Nene and Seraphin as a core group. But right now Nene is way too injury prone. I liked the trade initially but as of now it seems like Nene is gonna be injured forever, therefore greatly decreasing the value of that trade. If Nene is ever at full 100% strength, I will be pleased with the trade. I think with the roster we have right now, if every player was 100% healthy, we would be in the playoffs as a 6-8 seed.

While it's obviously tough not to, I really don't think we can judge the team yet. If once Wall, Seraphin and Nene come back and we're still struggling then by all means judge away. I have confidence in Wall and Seraphin, hopefully Beal can produce as well. But yeah overall I agree EG/Ted has not done well thus far.

Also another note:

I think I'd rather have Wall, Seraphin, Beal and Nene over Wall, Nene and Harden. Thoughts?

A core of Wall, Nene, and Harden makes this team competitive for (at the minimum) a 5 seed in the East. A core of Wall, Seraphin, Beal, and Nene makes this team a fringe 8 seed. That's just how I see it.

[nuposse87]

Leonard would have been bad at 6. You take upside when you pick that high and Ves definitely has higher upside. He's a seven footer. We would have no length now if not for him.

Ves will be alright. If we wanted Leonard, we should have dealt for him at 15 with Indiana like the Spurs did. All they gave up was George Hill and some other bits and got some bits back plus Leonard. It wouldn't have been that hard.

Beal is going to be a good player. Better than Nick Young Jr. I'm sorry but Lamb is a straight up knuckle head. There is a reason everyone in basketball loves Beal and thinks he's going to good. There is a reason Beal was OKC's first choice and they tried to get him at 2 in the Harden deal.

Leonard is a defensive juggernaut already at a young age. The problem is...can you expect the same type of development with the Wizards...as oppose to the Spurs? As it stands right now, Leonard would have been the perfect SF for us, athletic, 3 and D on the wing. He doesn't need the ball to be effective either, which lets Wall operate as needed...

I haven't given up on Jan, I think he's ok as a player so far...definitely not worth the 6th pick so far barring Seraphin-esuqe like improvment mid season.

Wall

Harden

Leonard

Nene

Seraphin

would have been tremendous in the east, although I'm kind of happy we didn't pull the trigger on the Harden thing. One game against possibly the weakest defensive backcourt in the league isn't enough to crown him.

[Going Commando]

A core of Wall, Nene, and Harden makes this team competitive for (at the minimum) a 5 seed in the East. A core of Wall, Seraphin, Beal, and Nene makes this team a fringe 8 seed. That's just how I see it.

I doubt for this year though. Who knows how long Wall and Nene will be out? Harden would be doing it by himself.

But next year, that would be the expectation no doubt. That's three All Star-ish players.

I think we could have gotten both Beal and Harden by being creative though. Maybe even kept Nene in the process.

Imagine this offer:

James Harden + Kendrick Perkins + whomever to make the salaries work (Aldrich and Cook were used to get 5 million more in salary)

For Nene + Crawford + Booker or Seraphin + Singleton + first rounders in 2013 and 2014

That offer massively beats Houston's IMO.

First off, our draft picks might actually be high unlike Toronto's protected pick and Dallas' pick.

Second, Nene alone is far better return than Martin and Lamb combined. Gives them low post scoring with barely needing any touches + a great passing big which they need because of Westbrook's style. He's a great fit as their starting C, a huge upgrade from Perkins.

Third, you give them Crawford to try and replace second line scoring in a similar role to Martin in the Houston deal.

Fourth, they get Singleton, who has the potential to give them another perimeter stopper (and LeBron guarder) for the second unit when Thabo Sefolosha is out.

Fifth, you give them Booker or Seraphin to bring the tough guy energy stuff to the Thunder they're losing by shipping off Perkins. Only they come at a significantly lesser cost.

Sixth, they get out of Perkins's contract, which is too expensive for what he brings to that team.

That is six separate incentives, most of which beat the ones in the Houston deal.

We gutted our team, but got an All Star in return + kept Beal.

Let's say we weren't stupid and had actually demanded #10 back from NO for that awful Ariza/Okafor trade. We then spend that pick on Lamb anyway. That makes a Harden deal even easier to construct without gutting our team.

Perkins's deal would be up in 2014, the same year we have to make some of our key extensions + the year Boogie Cousins will hit the open market if he doesn't negotiate a new deal before then.

I think you could create the space you'd need to have Wall + Harden + Beal + Cousins + Vesely as your core 5. Wall, Harden, and Beal are unselfish and Vesely needs no offensive touches. They could each get the numbers they'd want and Cousins could put up monster numbers. It'd be a nasty group.

Oh well, that will never be.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I doubt for this year though. Who knows how long Wall and Nene will be out? Harden would be doing it by himself.

But next year, that would be the expectation no doubt. That's three All Star-ish players.

I think we could have gotten both Beal and Harden by being creative though. Maybe even kept Nene in the process.

Imagine this offer:

James Harden + Kendrick Perkins + whomever to make the salaries work (Aldrich and Cook were used to get 5 million more in salary)

For Nene + Crawford + Booker or Seraphin + Singleton + first rounders in 2013 and 2014

That offer massively beats Houston's IMO.

First off, our draft picks might actually be high unlike Toronto's protected pick and Dallas' pick.

Second, Nene alone is far better return than Martin and Lamb combined. Gives them low post scoring with barely needing any touches + a great passing big which they need because of Westbrook's style. He's a great fit as their starting C, a huge upgrade from Perkins.

Third, you give them Crawford to try and replace second line scoring in a similar role to Martin in the Houston deal.

Fourth, they get Singleton, who has the potential to give them another perimeter stopper (and LeBron guarder) for the second unit when Thabo Sefolosha is out.

Fifth, you give them Booker or Seraphin to bring the tough guy energy stuff to the Thunder they're losing by shipping off Perkins. Only they come at a significantly lesser cost.

Sixth, they get out of Perkins's contract, which is too expensive for what he brings to that team.

That is six separate incentives, most of which beat the ones in the Houston deal.

We gutted our team, but got an All Star in return + kept Beal.

Let's say we weren't stupid and had actually demanded #10 back from NO for that awful Ariza/Okafor trade. We then spend that pick on Lamb anyway. That makes a Harden deal even easier to construct without gutting our team.

Perkins's deal would be up in 2014, the same year we have to make some of our key extensions + the year Boogie Cousins will hit the open market if he doesn't negotiate a new deal before then.

I think you could create the space you'd need to have Wall + Harden + Beal + Cousins + Vesely as your core 5. Wall, Harden, and Beal are unselfish and Vesely needs no offensive touches. They could each get the numbers they'd want and Cousins could put up monster numbers. It'd be a nasty group.

Oh well, that will never be.

you're hurting me man...stop it. lol

Can we nominate you for GM?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Vesely is the hill that Steve seems willing to die on. I just view him as a body right now.

Anyway, I think any move the Wizards had went out the window when they added Ariza/Okafor.

Here is a dumb question: Are Ariza and Okafor expiring contracts this year or next year? I'm pretty sure it is next year, but I suddenly had some doubts.

[No Excuses]

Here is a dumb question: Are Ariza and Okafor expiring contracts this year or next year? I'm pretty sure it is next year' date=' but I suddenly had some doubts.[/quote']

Next year.

But don't expect Ernie to do anything with them.

[Going Commando]

Vesely is the hill that Steve seems willing to die on. I just view him as a body right now.

Anyway' date=' I think any move the Wizards had went out the window when they added Ariza/Okafor.

Here is a dumb question: Are Ariza and Okafor expiring contracts this year or next year? I'm pretty sure it is next year, but I suddenly had some doubts.[/quote']

Did you see the first game? Vesely looked pretty good.

He's never going to be worth a damn as a scorer. He's got no touch on his jumper, no elevation, and no confidence in it whatsoever. He also can't handle the ball. His only scoring will be cuts where someone else gets him the ball inside. BUT, he does see the court well and he's already a good passing big. He passes out of trouble and he can get the ball from one side of the court to the other because he sees over everyone. And he does have good touch around the basket and is an excellent finisher.

And his defensive potential is enormous. I don't understand how the people who don't like him don't recognize that. It literally shouts at me every time I see him play. His IQ is high and he's so tall and athletic. And he's got good hands.

How do his detractors not see those same things? IQ + 7 FT + Athleticism + Hands = a valuable big man. That's a rare skill set and guys like that end up being good.

---------- Post added November-2nd-2012 at 03:31 PM ----------

Also I think one of Okafor or Ariza has an early buy out sometime.

[SuperBash]

Did you see the first game? Vesely looked pretty good.

He's never going to be worth a damn as a scorer. He's got no touch on his jumper, no elevation, and no confidence in it whatsoever. He also can't handle the ball. His only scoring will be cuts where someone else gets him the ball inside. BUT, he does see the court well and he's already a good passing big. He passes out of trouble and he can get the ball from one side of the court to the other because he sees over everyone. And he does have good touch around the basket and is an excellent finisher.

And his defensive potential is enormous. I don't understand how the people who don't like him don't recognize that. It literally shouts at me every time I see him play. His IQ is high and he's so tall and athletic. And he's got good hands.

How do his detractors not see those same things? IQ + 7 FT + Athleticism + Hands = a valuable big man. That's a rare skill set and guys like that end up being good.

---------- Post added November-2nd-2012 at 03:31 PM ----------

Also I think one of Okafor or Ariza has an early buy out sometime.

Not an explosive scorer = BUST. Clearly, that is the only thing that matters in the NBA. What is this, "defense," thing you keep talking about? Never heard of it.

[Going Commando]

Not an explosive scorer = BUST. Clearly, that is the only thing that matters in the NBA. What is this, "defense," thing you keep talking about? Never heard of it.

Goofy looking white kid that can't shoot or handle the ball and the things he's good at don't accumulate stats. That's what people see. Thankfully for Ves, the NBA isn't one giant pickup game.

Edited November 2, 2012 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Ariza has a player option for next season. It's 7 million. He's probably going to pick that up.

[GOSKINS_08]

When is everyone suppose to be healthy and return?

[StillUnknown]

When is everyone suppose to be healthy and return?

With this staff, you never know. Wall's injury recovery was set at 8 weeks, although some think that's conservative. There is no set date for Nene.

Seraphin is back tonight though.

[Thinking Skins]

This looks like it may be a LONG game.

[SuperBash]

What a god awful start. Can't defend pick and pops and we have put a ball in the basket yet. 5 minutes in. I hope Beal develops the ability to separate from his defender.

[StillUnknown]

This looks like it may be a LONG game.

I'm just about done with Mr. Price already.

Livingston is a better option.