The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Skin'emAlive]

Would never work. Literally all the other team would have to do is pull the PF out to the perimeter, and Gortat would be a fish out of water. The PF wouldnt even have to be able to shoot. Guys in open spaces routinely put Marcin on skates. He's a traditional center that really shouldnt ever be too far from the paint if it can be avoided.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Skin'emAlive

[TradeTheBeal!]

Mahinmi is gonna start. Gortat is gonna be on the trade block in the not too distant future.

[Renegade7]

*Sigh

 

Trading him makes more sense.  Not sure what I feel about these "breaking news" reports, especially after the mess up on Sato.  What did he agree to come here like 24 hours after it was apparent we had no chance at all?

Edited July 4, 2016 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

That's fine to say now but every move, literally every move from coaching to drafting was made to get KD.

All we did was keep max contract space open this summer so as to have the ability to make an offer to Durant. So did half the league. That and hire David Adkins to be an assistant coach for player development. Big ****ing deal. Neither move compromised our future and we would have been stupid not to at least leave the door open for Durant.

Scott Brooks was hired because he's a good coach. Saying we only hired him because he used to coach Durant in OKC is simply not true. The connection was a nice bonus, but the reason we hired him is because he was one of the best on the market and had a reputation for excelling at player development, something we need more than anything else.

Re: draft, to be specific, our last four picks were used to get Otto, Gortat, Oubre, and Morris. What do they have to do with Durant? Because one time Kelly Oubre was a counselor at one of Durant's basketball camps? I'm sure that was the reason we picked him and not because he was the ****ing BPA. We drafted two SFs, KD didn't factor into our draft decisions at all.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account‏@WojVerticalNBA

For Wizards fans: @kporzee has previously told me he's a big fan of guard Tomas Satoransky's game. They played two years together in Spain.

[justice98]

Doesn't look like KD ever wanted to come here. Hard to get a meeting with a guy when the guy isn't interested in playing here.

But like daveakl said, if he wasnt ever interested in playing here, the front office certainly didnt act like it the last couple years. I mean, were they oblivious or just in denial?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

David Pick‏@IAmDPick

Re: Tomas Satoransky. Wizards center Marcin Gortat held recruiting talks in Czech vs Poland.

[Going Commando]

On top of that, we didnt even try to upgrade the center position, which is possibly our weakest link and the position of greatest upgrade availability. You cant say Horford, because we were bringing him in as a 4, not a 5. Both Whiteside and Howard would have been a clear upgrade. Hassan being a 3rd piece of the future, and Howard giving elite production for 2-3 years. At best, one could make the argument that we are playing the long game for Cousins, but the fact that we had to shell out so much for a guy with possibility the worst trade value last year leads me to believe Sac could fleece us; and i had been advocating for the Morris trade since last offseason.

First off, upgrading the Center position was not a priority. That has been our second best position since Gortat has been on the team. Upgrading PF is, and has been for years, the much bigger priority. We made the right decision to go after Horford when it was clear Durant wasn't interested. It came down to a toss up for Horford and we lost. It sucks, but it happens. We played the situation correctly.

As for centers, Whiteside would have been an upgrade, but you can't get pissed about not getting a top free agent who signs a max deal to stay with his team. There was no chance Miami was letting him get away. Howard would have been a terrible move. Maybe you're thinking Dwight is still the player he was three or four years ago, but he is not. The dude's productivity is free falling and he is not a clear upgrade over Gortat. Gortat was slightly more productive than him last season, and I think it's a safe bet Gortat will age better too. Replacing him with Dwight would have meant doubling Gortat's salary to fill the position with a guy who is no better, is rapidly declining, has back problems, has played a **** ton more minutes, and does not have a game that will age well. And who also happens to be one of the league's biggest cancers.

Plus we did in fact upgrade the C position. Mahinmi is a weird signing given we just signed a starter to be a back up. But he counts as an upgrade. He's much better than a broken down Nene and now we finally have another real C such that a Gortat injury won't wreck our season any more. The dude is good and his game is exactly what we need at the position: excellent PnR finisher, rebounding, and elite defense.

I wouldn't have spent so much money to get what amounts to a second starter when all we needed was a back up. But having starting caliber players on your bench is how you get an elite bench, and it doesn't hurt that we now have the flexibility to trade Gortat if something good came up.

[daveakl]

All we did was keep max contract space open this summer so as to have the ability to make an offer to Durant. So did half the league. That and hire David Adkins to be an assistant coach for player development. Big ****ing deal. Neither move compromised our future and we would have been stupid not to at least leave the door open for Durant.

Scott Brooks was hired because he's a good coach. Saying we only hired him because he used to coach Durant in OKC is simply not true. The connection was a nice bonus, but the reason we hired him is because he was one of the best on the market and had a reputation for excelling at player development, something we need more than anything else.

Re: draft, to be specific, our last four picks were used to get Otto, Gortat, Oubre, and Morris. What do they have to do with Durant? Because one time Kelly Oubre was a counselor at one of Durant's basketball camps? I'm sure that was the reason we picked him and not because he was the ****ing BPA. We drafted two SFs, KD didn't factor into our draft decisions at all.

When I am back at a computer tomorrow I'll go back through your posts about how each move you describe above was part of the endgame to get KD. You (and many others) have posted about it for two years. Changing the narrative after the fact is silly.

[Renegade7]

Our depth at SF was a backup for not getting Durant, not Plan A.  If we had signed Durant, one of them would've immediately been traded the same offseason.

[Going Commando]

When I am back at a computer tomorrow I'll go back through your posts about how each move you describe above was part of the endgame to get KD. You (and many others) have posted about it for two years. Changing the narrative after the fact is silly.

Go for it.

[Gamebreaker]

All we did was keep max contract space open this summer so as to have the ability to make an offer to Durant. So did half the league. That and hire David Adkins to be an assistant coach for player development. Big ****ing deal. Neither move compromised our future and we would have been stupid not to at least leave the door open for Durant.

Scott Brooks was hired because he's a good coach. Saying we only hired him because he used to coach Durant in OKC is simply not true. The connection was a nice bonus, but the reason we hired him is because he was one of the best on the market and had a reputation for excelling at player development, something we need more than anything else.

Re: draft, to be specific, our last four picks were used to get Otto, Gortat, Oubre, and Morris. What do they have to do with Durant? Because one time Kelly Oubre was a counselor at one of Durant's basketball camps? I'm sure that was the reason we picked him and not because he was the ****ing BPA. We drafted two SFs, KD didn't factor into our draft decisions at all.

I'm sorry, but everything you wrote is revisionist history. Shameful, considering this stuff all happened within two years. Stop trying to do what you always do, which is sell the current state of affairs of this team as a good thing. Instead of being honest about what it is: the very best a mediocre GM and organization can do with the most cap space they've had in a very long time.

So you're saying it's just pure coincidence on the David Atkins hire, passing on any trade or FA that could've made the team better to keep the most cap space for this year, hiring Durant's old coach who he didn't want fired, and trading for Oubre 15 minutes after Durant spoke highly of him on Instagram. Get the **** out of here with this nonsense. How is Oubre BPA when he wasn't available for our pick?

Edited July 4, 2016 by Gamebreaker

[Going Commando]

Our depth at SF was a backup for not getting Durant, not Plan A.  If we had signed Durant, one of them would've immediately been traded the same offseason.

There wasn't any plan in picking Otto and Oubre beyond "they're the BPA." We already had Trevor Ariza and Martell Webster on our roster when we chose Otto, and we had just spent a #3 overall pick on Otto when we traded up for Oubre.

Making those two picks was all about them. We absolutely loved Otto and he is panning out into the player we hoped for when we picked him. And Oubre was a steal. Gave up just two future seconds to get him. We had him as a lottery pick whose upside matched Stanley Johnson's and Justise Winslow's, and he slipped into our range. He was the third best SF prospect in the class, and IMO, a clear step up from Rondae Hollis Jefferson and Justin Anderson. Atlanta made a crappy decision to trade him to us, and then made another crappy decision to then trade that 19th pick for Tim Hardaway. They'd have been far better off just picking Oubre, and I think that's what they'd have done if Danny Ferry were still their GM.

We got lucky that Oubre fell into our lap. It was a rare instance of Ernie swinging for the fences on upside and if he reaches his potential, we probably got one of the 7 or 8 best players from a strong class.

If we had considered Durant or any other player other than the prospect themselves at our draft pick, we probably would have picked Nerlens Noel or Alex Len in '13 and Jerian Grant or Bobby Portis in '15.

[StillUnknown]

Doesn't look like KD ever wanted to come here.  Hard to get a meeting with a guy when the guy isn't interested in playing here.  

 

when you basically refused to add to any salary to the team for the past 2 years because of chasing him, it looks bad.  Grunfeld had 2+ years to make this team into a spot that could lure a top free agent, if not Durant.  When Ian Mahinimi is the most expensive guy you sign, your 2yr+ plan is a failure.  We are effectively right back to where we were two years ago, a playoff team with a chance of advancing past the first round and little more.  Our advancement is contingent on the same things as 2 yrs ago, breakout seasons from Beal & Otto.  

 

Sure the depth "looks" to be much better this year, but we didn't spend 2yrs in stasis to come away with depth, this was supposed to be us separating ourselves from the pack.

 

Ernie has shown once again, he is practiced at cleaning up his own mess.  You still penalize him for making the big messes though.

[Renegade7]

No, Steve. No. no. no no and no, bro.

 

You really do believe what you believe, but that doesn't make it accurate.  Not when they are putting Durant on the jumbotron in a Wizards jersey. 

[Going Commando]

I'm sorry, but everything you wrote is revisionist history. Shameful, considering this stuff all happened within two years. Stop trying to do what you always do, which is sell the current state of affairs of this team as a good thing. Instead of being honest about what it is: the very best a mediocre GM and organization can do with the most cap space they've had in a very long time.

So you're saying it's just pure coincidence on the David Atkins hire, passing on any trade or FA that could've made the team better to keep the most cap space for this year, hiring Durant's old coach who he didn't want fired, and trading for Oubre 15 minutes after Durant spoke highly of him on Instagram. Get the **** out of here with this nonsense. How is Oubre BPA when he wasn't available for our pick?

What I wrote was clear, maybe you should try reading it again. I didn't say it was a coincidence that Adkins was hired. I said it's not a big deal because it isn't. Who gives a **** about hiring Durant's old coach to be a god damn assistant for player development? The move had zero downside. Saving your cap space always makes sense because, guess what, you can spend it on other players if you don't get Durant. Durant had nothing to do with picking Oubre and you're reasoning for why he did is a ****ing joke. Do you know how many young players Durant has probably worked with? Thinking we picked him just because Durant tweeted at him is stupid ass Wizards fan span conspiracy theory nonsense. People were desperate to see any connection to Durant they could to explain a pick they didn't understand because they had never bothered to watch Oubre in college and didn't know anything about him.

Durant wasn't against Scott Brooks's firing either. He said he was 100% in support of OKC's decision and he thanked and praised Brooks publicly and wished him well because he has class. If Durant had actually been against Scott Brooks getting fired then Scott Brooks would not have been fired.

Seriously, WTF are you all so salty about? Did we compromise our roster in any way by saving up cap space for the summer Durant hit FA and hiring David Adkins? Who did we let walk or slip away to make it happen? Or are you all just whining because you're pissed that Durant didn't want to come here?

No, Steve. No. no. no no and no, bro.

 

You really do believe what you believe, but that doesn't make it accurate.  Not when they are putting Durant on the jumbotron in a Wizards jersey.

And what does that have to do with Otto Porter or Kelly Oubre?

Am I the only one who actually paid attention to those drafts?

[Taylor703]

I still would have rather tried trading Marcin for an asset or guy like Crabbe (especially after the Mahinmi signing), signed Howard to the max, brought in Sato as the backup pg, and not traded a 2nd for Burke. But we are on play F or something at this point, so whatever. There is atleast a few assets to look forward to. ( Sato, Otto, Oubre, Eddie)

Dude we got Burke for a second round pick 48 years from now...there's not much to complain about there.

[Renegade7]

And what does that have to do with Otto Porter or Kelly Oubre?

Am I the only one who actually paid attention to those drafts?

 

No, you are not, Dr. Robotnik.  That doesn't mean every rebuttal requires a dissertation, because I've made it very clear that I did not agree with holding out the cap space like that in a way that it took us out of playoff contention instead of building on two second round round playoff series in a row. 

 

All those coincidences you mention, though minuscule individuals, are just symptoms of the total obviousness of the situation.  Enough so that even KD himself saw right through it and had been turned off by it for at least two years now.  You could make a 30,000 word post, you still could not convince me KD2DC wasn't Plan A. Those other players we could've gotten are just a distraction, because the KD2DC thing goes back a while now (and picking up steam when we should've been focusing on building on what we had like you claim we were doing):

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/11/10/an-incomplete-history-of-kd2dc/

 

I can't wait for more articles an anonymous interviews on this.  I don't think it will be a 30for30 unless he does eventually come here, but Post or someone will breakdown this failure for the beginning at some point.

 

If you don't believe Ted had been planning this for a while, just look at how childish he acted once it was evident it wasn't going to happen.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Renegade7

[Taylor703]

Yeah, we definitely were gearing up for KD. Acting like that wasn't the plan all along is revisionist history.

[SuperBash]

I don't think we are gonna trade Gortat. Having said that, he has a very very nice starting Center contract at the moment,

[Skin'emAlive]

Steve, I agree with most of what you write here but I gotta say just about every single thing you posted in response to my post i strongly disagree with, and its hard to find a starting point as to where to address it. But ill try:

 

1. Upgrading the 5 was not a priority. But it was an option with 3 max level 5's on the market. Two of them fit the biggest deficiencies of the team: interior defense, above the rim play, and crashing the boards.

 

2. The 4 position has been a clear problem for years. However, the PF position has been successfully been addressed. Morris fits everything we need at the 4 and it would be incredulous that we traded a first for a player that would be replaced a month or so later. There is nothing wrong with Morris. I understand that we were planning on bringing him here to play the 4, but starting Horford over him imo would have been worse than if we paired Morris with Al at the 5. But this is not the point...

 

3. Im not pissed off about not getting Whiteside. I am upset that we didnt try. I am upset that it appears that we didnt try because of loyalty to Marcin. When JMichael F/O mouthpiece throws out on his twitter feed that Marcin was involved in Sato's arrival (among other Marcin covered beef) its clear that this team decided not to explore the possibilities at all for fear of getting him upset. That does not look like a GM with a firm control of the team. Do you think a successful GM in any sport would hesitate at exploring a clearly elite player for fear of upsetting his playoff-missing team?

 

4. Howard played 3-4 years with the two greatest ballhogs of all time. He is now going to San Antonio-East. When he starts balling again, I dont want to hear about how its a fluke. Just a year ago he was carrying that Houston team himself through the playoffs. If it wasnt for Harden's inexplicable turnover prowess, they would have been in the Finals. He still is better at defense than Marcin, and while not at peak Howard levels, hes still among the tops in the league. And that is with his back problems. Sure, hes got some character issues, but so what. The guy was phased out of the offense completely last year in favor of the likes of Montejunas, Beasley, Ariza, Beverly, Capela, etc. I will enjoy watching Houston crash and burn further.

 

5. Mahinmi is a lateral move. He is not elite at defense nor is he better as a roll man than Marcin. They are both marginally better than each other at different elements of the game. Ignoring the failure of not trying for Whiteside/Howard, Im ok with either starting, but having both is unnecessary. I feel like having a Mahinmi/Leonard 5 rotation would be better and create better mismatches than a Mahinmi/Gortat would. Unless of course Sato can be John Wall on the assist front. But, thats wishful thinking. Im not upset with the Mahinmi signing, but his arrival means we have a logjam of similar (and expensive) pieces at the 5... and Ian isnt even that young.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Skin'emAlive

[Going Commando]

Yeah, we definitely were gearing up for KD. Acting like that wasn't the plan all along is revisionist history.

This is how I can tell you all aren't actually reading my posts. You're arguing against straw men. I didn't argue we weren't planning to go after Durant in free agency. I argued that we didn't give up anything significant to do it. If someone wants to argue that we did, I'm all ears.

[Taylor703]

This is how I can tell you all aren't actually reading my posts. You're arguing against straw men. I didn't argue we weren't planning to go after Durant in free agency. I argued that we didn't give up anything significant to do it. If someone wants to argue that we did, I'm all ears.

Dude, I was just speaking in general. Never aimed that post at you. Chill.

[Renegade7]

This is how I can tell you all aren't actually reading my posts. You're arguing against straw men. I didn't argue we weren't planning to go after Durant in free agency. I argued that we didn't give up anything significant to do it. If someone wants to argue that we did, I'm all ears.

 

 

At least a year of John Wall's prime and a year of playoff eligibility after making the second round twice in a row doesn't count?  There's a lot of people in here and in general that disagree with you on this topic right now, and that's whether they read your posts or not.  You can keep going if you want, but I don't see trying to convince people you are right on this will go well and may not be worth it, 2 cents.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

At least a year of John Wall's prime and a year of playoff eligibility after making the second round twice in a row doesn't count?  There's a lot of people in here and in general that disagree with you on this topic right now, and that's whether they read your posts or not.  You can keep going if you want, but I don't see trying to convince people you are right on this will go well and may not be worth it, 2 cents.

Yeah, I don't agree that the reason we missed the playoffs this year is because we signed a bunch of bench players to one and two year deals the last two summers. Nor do I agree that there was any difference maker out there in FA that we could have afforded to sign last summer. For one thing, we barely had any cap space. And for another, I think the burden is on you to demonstrate that we could have signed X player for Y amount of money and that would have produced Z more wins because...

I don't care if lots of people who've barely followed the team the past few seasons disagree with me, or if I piss anyone off in this thread by arguing against nonsense.