The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Burgold]

What I wonder is if we are one of the teams where players actually hope to get traded away.

[No Excuses]

I think what you said about being unable to develop raw, cheap talent is probably true. But if I'm being honest with myself, I admit that Crawford, Booker, and Seraphin don't have much in the way of potential. The only waste that really bothers me right now is Vesely. That's a 6th overall pick.

None of them have superstar potential but they could all be useful bench or role players.

I saw enough from Booker and Seraphin in the last two years to think that by now, on the right team/system, they could be playing 20-30 minutes a game and contributing with either scoring/energy or rebounding.

Chris Singleton, showed flashes of being a 3 and D guy as well. But he's glued to the end of the bench most of the time.

Not a single player on this team has seen significant improvement since entering the league and this includes John Wall. The improvement we've seen is marginal to what should have happened.

What this tells me is that the players are trying and likely maximizing how much they can improve on their own. The lack of direction from the front office and coaching staff is holding them back.

I find it incredibly fascinating that Ernie gets to demolish his own roster and his own coaching staff repeatedly yet his job is probably the safest of anyone in the league. If I posted how I feel about Ted Leonsis, I would probably get banned.

Edited February 22, 2013 by No Excuses

[pjfootballer]

Pardon me for not really giving a **** about it I guess. I am actually genuinely surprised people are soooo pissed about this.

Because after 35 years of suckage, the fans have had enough. You are one of the last few on the face of the earth that still believes in this team. You are one of the last few the believe this team can win more than 25 games in a season. The best this franchise has done since 1978 is 45 wins. FORTY-FIVE. I mean, when does the rebuilding stop and the winning begin. People are just fed up. We're tired of being fooled, hoodwinked, lied to or whatever you want to call it. This team is not worth the time to root for. And sadly, Leonsis is bringing the Caps down to Wizards level.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

At some point you guys will realize it's not the GM, it's the ownership.

Steddy Teddy is a mirror image of Honest Abe.

It's all about the money saved on a contract.

Abe's finest hour (other than their championship years) was AFTER he shipped Jordan out of town he was forced to actually try and field a good team. Our GM did so much.

Then he made our GM trade picks and players for $$$ in return.

Now Steady Teddy is doing the same. Our GM doesn't make decisions based on his own thought process, he does what the owner wants. It was true under Abe and it's true now.

About time someone said this. :applause:

[Going Commando]

At some point you guys will realize it's not the GM, it's the ownership.

Steddy Teddy is a mirror image of Honest Abe.

It's all about the money saved on a contract.

Abe's finest hour (other than their championship years) was AFTER he shipped Jordan out of town he was forced to actually try and field a good team. Our GM did so much.

Then he made our GM trade picks and players for $$$ in return.

Now Steady Teddy is doing the same. Our GM doesn't make decisions based on his own thought process, he does what the owner wants. It was true under Abe and it's true now.

Ernie is the problem. Two different owners have come along and Ernie and his staff are the common denominator. Ernie is the one who makes all the day to day decisions and he's the leader and the one who instills the culture. Ernie is the one who has pretty much been mediocre to abject failure everywhere he's been in charge. He's the one whose only drafted one All Star in two and a half decades. He's the one who allowed a clown culture to flourish where the star player takes a **** in a team mate's shoe and brings loaded guns into the locker room as a prank.

Ted's at fault for letting him keep his job, but Ernie is the one making all the decisions.

[StillUnknown]

Not a single player on this team has seen significant improvement since entering the league and this includes John Wall. The improvement we've seen is marginal to what should have happened.

What this tells me is that the players are trying and likely maximizing how much they can improve on their own. The lack of direction from the front office and coaching staff is holding them back.

I find it incredibly fascinating that Ernie gets to demolish his own roster and his own coaching staff repeatedly yet his job is probably the safest of anyone in the league. If I posted how I feel about Ted Leonsis, I would probably get banned.

quoted for emphasis

This is part of the reason I can't really get excited for the draft. We don't have a prayer at developing any of the "raw" players with the highest upsides coming out.

[Going Commando]

None of them have superstar potential but they could all be useful bench or role players.

I saw enough from Booker and Seraphin in the last two years to think that by now, on the right team/system, they could be playing 20-30 minutes a game and contributing with either scoring/energy or rebounding.

Chris Singleton, showed flashes of being a 3 and D guy as well. But he's glued to the end of the bench most of the time.

Not a single player on this team has seen significant improvement since entering the league and this includes John Wall. The improvement we've seen is marginal to what should have happened.

What this tells me is that the players are trying and likely maximizing how much they can improve on their own. The lack of direction from the front office and coaching staff is holding them back.

I find it incredibly fascinating that Ernie gets to demolish his own roster and his own coaching staff repeatedly yet his job is probably the safest of anyone in the league. If I posted how I feel about Ted Leonsis, I would probably get banned.

I think any NBA player with enough talent to be a first round pick can show flashes if given some opportunities. Booker and Singleton and Vesely, Crawford, and Seraphin have all been starters at various points. They have had opportunities, I just don't think they're that good. They could thrive in ideal situations probably but we are the farthest thing from that. And the upside of these guys is only so high. The guys we cut aren't going off and solidifying starting roles elsewhere, even for functional franchises.

I do agree that we're rudderless. It's looking like our original plan was not a good one. We've clearly changed philosophies at the point of the Nene-Javale trade. You're signature alone points to that. Look how comical that plan was in hindsight. Two of our "big 3" were Crawford and Blatche?

So that plan went out the window when it finally became obvious how stupid it was. We've been scrambling around opportunistically trying to add new core pieces without a clear plan once we realized all we had was a bunch of bench players for the most part and a lot of them are clowns.

Holding us back is our seeming inability to develop a franchise player because you need a franchise player to work around and see progress in your build. A rebuilding plan with no franchise player in it is probably doomed. And the only way we'll ever get a franchise player is to draft and develop him ourselves. Nobody is going to sign here. And I doubt we ever get a raw talent and potential franchise player like Wall again any time soon. And I think a loser culture, poor coaching, lack of professionalism, and lack of a concrete plan for how to develop that guy into a franchise player is the reason why we can't develop anyone. Not having a ton of money to work with gives us a smaller margin for error too.

Ernie had a two decade long track record demonstrating he couldn't draft players and develop talent when Ted bought the team. It's frustrating he didn't clean house when he bought the team. I hope the next GM and coach we get actually has a great background drafting talent and teaching them and developing them. The brand is so damaged right now that the only way we'll ever pull ourselves out of the gutter is by creating a legit new culture and developing players who have no choice but to be here because we drafted them.

[RonArtest15]

Came across this in the comments section on BF:

But let me paint you the bloody truth about Crawford and why this deal was bound to happen: he was the laziest defender on the roster, the one who didn't give a flying f*** about winning, or team chemistry. You can let someone like Monta Ellis or Deron Williams get away with behavior like that. But not Jordan Crawford.

Or how about this nugget (which you'll see itself play out in the upcoming year):Crawford was sabotaging Bradley Beal from becoming the leader of the Wizards.

Beal, who let's remember is still 19, effectively bossed around older players at Florida last season, and the Gators began to click. He's a much more cerebral leader and speaker than John Wall, who would gladly hand the authoritative keys to Beal. Here's the thing: Wall wasn't around for the first few months of the season and at the exact same time Crawford was flourishing (averaged 19.1 ppg in December) and Beal was sputtering. Crawford acted like the alpha dog and wasn't welcoming to Beal. Randy Wittman idiotically let this situation continue to play out, delaying Beal's emergence and giving false hope to Wizards fans about Crawford's fools gold appeal.

Now Beal won't feel like he's stepping on anybody's toes. Using one of Crawford's old quotes, "people gravitate towards me," is actually true in a good way about Beal. Without Crawford snorting laughter in the background and undermining any type of serious approach to basketball, Wizards fans are about to meet the real Bradley Beal.

Link

OK, so there was MUCH more going on behind the scenes than any of us knew about. I still think we got pennies on the dollar for the Crawford trade, but after reading the article, moving him out ASAP made good sense.

[MonkFan8]

That's all well and good, but anyone could have seen that attitude and mindset forever ago. Why wasn't he dealt when his value was actually above a ham sandwich?

[Destino]

Ron, that article makes Beal sound like Mark Sanchez. It's never a good sign for a "leader" when you have to get rid of doubters in order for him to feel confident. I realize whoever wrote that article means well but he made Wall and Beal look pretty damn soft via his choice in argument. You think there RG3 needed any redskins tossed aside in order to grab the wheel of that franchise and put everyone else in the backseat? Nope. Leaders takeover, they don't ask permission to do so. They aren't weakened by the "class clown" they turn that guy into a strong supporter.

I don't think Beal and Wall are soft, I think that blogger wanted to ***** about Crawford a little too much. Mike Prada noted that the Wizards keep a chart that notes how many shots players attempt to defend in practice and in games. Crawford was last so that blogger's claims that he was lazy on defense is true. Here's the thing though...

"The Wizards have a board where they rate the percentage of shots in games and practice that a player properly contests. Crawford was the lowest-rated player on this list. (John Wall, fwiw, was second-lowest). I think the Celtics will get him to at least defend passably." ~ Mike Prada answering Celtics fans questions about Crawford

... Wall is now last on that list. Do we say the same thing about him? Of course not because this organization is entirely made up of players that don't give their very best. This organization's problem is that they can't motivate players to improve. Wall is standing still in terms of development and Crawford never even so much as stopped taking shots 7 feet behind the three point line. The complaints aren't about Crawford as an individual, it's that it's a reminder of what is wrong with this franchise.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Destino

[Shabby]

Ok, they are a one or two seed with Rose. They were a 1 seed with him in 2011.

STILL avoiding the original question haha.

[Gator Bait]

Ernie is the problem. Two different owners have come along and Ernie and his staff are the common denominator. Ernie is the one who makes all the day to day decisions and he's the leader and the one who instills the culture. Ernie is the one who has pretty much been mediocre to abject failure everywhere he's been in charge. He's the one whose only drafted one All Star in two and a half decades. He's the one who allowed a clown culture to flourish where the star player takes a **** in a team mate's shoe and brings loaded guns into the locker room as a prank.

Ted's at fault for letting him keep his job, but Ernie is the one making all the decisions.

I agrett....I do think Ted is part of the issue for not sending Ernie packing, but you are right that Ernie is the common denominator. We need Ted to fire Ernie, bring in a good GM and stay out of the way.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2013 at 12:16 PM ----------

OK, so there was MUCH more going on behind the scenes than any of us knew about. I still think we got pennies on the dollar for the Crawford trade, but after reading the article, moving him out ASAP made good sense.

agree. I'm not happy we got pennies on the dollar either; but I am glad crawford is gone. The buy form BF was spot on.

[Rocky21]

Fan Poll on Bullets Forever grading the trade. A-F: how did the Wizards do on this trade.

0%

A (3 votes)

2%

B (8 votes)

6%

C (22 votes)

14%

D (49 votes)

75%

F (246 votes)

[Gator Bait]

Ron, that article makes Beal sound like Mark Sanchez. It's never a good sign for a "leader" when you have to get rid of doubters in order for him to feel confident. I realize whoever wrote that article means well but he made Wall and Beal look pretty damn soft via his choice in argument. You think there RG3 needed any redskins tossed aside in order to grab the wheel of that franchise and put everyone else in the backseat? Nope. Leaders takeover, they don't ask permission to do so. They aren't weakened by the "class clown" they turn that guy into a strong supporter.

I don't think Beal and Wall are soft, I think that blogger wanted to ***** about Crawford a little too much. Mike Prada noted that the Wizards keep a chart that notes how many shots players attempt to defend in practice and in games. Crawford was last so that blogger's claims that he was lazy on defense is true. Here's the thing though...

... Wall is now last on that list. Do we say the same thing about him? Of course not because this organization is entirely made up of players that don't give their very best. This organization's problem is that they can't motivate players to improve. Wall is standing still in terms of development and Crawford never even so much as stopped taking shots 7 feet behind the three point line. The complaints aren't about Crawford as an individual, it's that it's a reminder of what is wrong with this franchise.

bad comparison on RGIII and Beal. Beal came into the season as a young 19 year old.....a year removed from high school. RGIII was 22 when he came to the skins. He had spent three years in college (two of them as the leader of his college team) I don't know about you, but I know I grew a lot as a person from the ages of 18-22.....it is the time in most people's lives where they start to become a man. Beal is still practically a kid coming onto a team that already has it's "leader" ...it would be bad if he came in from day one demanding respect (without earning it) and trying to take the leadership role on the team. The skins really didn't have a leader on offense...the QB in the NFL is supposed to be the leader....especially if you are the #2 overall pick.

completely different situations....apples and oranges.

as far as Wall is concerned....I think he's done quite well as the leader of the team. He always plays hard and says the right things in interviews. He has done nothing to show me he can't lead this team....he even came in and had to be a leader when we had clowns like Blatche and Crawford on the roster. Beal seems like a pretty level headed kid. Hopefully him and wall embrace the fact that they will have to be elite on and off the court in order for this team to succeed.

[StillUnknown]

Here's the thing though...

... Wall is now last on that list. Do we say the same thing about him? Of course not because this organization is entirely made up of players that don't give their very best. This organization's problem is that they can't motivate players to improve. Wall is standing still in terms of development and Crawford never even so much as stopped taking shots 7 feet behind the three point line. The complaints aren't about Crawford as an individual, it's that it's a reminder of what is wrong with this franchise.

Exactly, this franchise excels in deflecting blame to the individual player, it keeps the media hordes from directing their attention at the root cause of the problem, the 2 idiots running the ship.

as far as Wall is concerned....I think he's done quite well as the leader of the team. He always plays hard and says the right things in interviews. He has done nothing to show me he can't lead this team....he even came in and had to be a leader when we had clowns like Blatche and Crawford on the roster. Beal seems like a pretty level headed kid. Hopefully him and wall embrace the fact that they will have to be elite on and off the court in order for this team to succeed.

Wall does not always play hard, particularly on defense. That is my chief worry about him. The jumpshot will probably never be a weapon, but too often, Wall spaces out on the court. Much more than the "leader" of a team should.

Edited February 22, 2013 by StillUnknown

[RonArtest15]

Ron, that article makes Beal sound like Mark Sanchez. It's never a good sign for a "leader" when you have to get rid of doubters in order for him to feel confident. I realize whoever wrote that article means well but he made Wall and Beal look pretty damn soft via his choice in argument. You think there RG3 needed any redskins tossed aside in order to grab the wheel of that franchise and put everyone else in the backseat? Nope. Leaders takeover, they don't ask permission to do so. They aren't weakened by the "class clown" they turn that guy into a strong supporter.

I don't think Beal and Wall are soft, I think that blogger wanted to ***** about Crawford a little too much. Mike Prada noted that the Wizards keep a chart that notes how many shots players attempt to defend in practice and in games. Crawford was last so that blogger's claims that he was lazy on defense is true. Here's the thing though...

... Wall is now last on that list. Do we say the same thing about him? Of course not because this organization is entirely made up of players that don't give their very best. This organization's problem is that they can't motivate players to improve. Wall is standing still in terms of development and Crawford never even so much as stopped taking shots 7 feet behind the three point line. The complaints aren't about Crawford as an individual, it's that it's a reminder of what is wrong with this franchise.

I agree with a lot of what you posted. But there seemed (from the article) to be some sort of an inferiority complex that Crawford had with Beal. Might have started in TC when the team said that there would be an open battle for the starting SG spot. Probably rubbed JC the wrong way there and it just spiraled out of control. I'm just going off of what I'm reading and I'm obviously not in the locker room. I think things like being poor on defense etc. can be forgiven if the player isn't doing other things to rustle jimmies. Crawford, it seems, was.

I agrett....I do think Ted is part of the issue for not sending Ernie packing, but you are right that Ernie is the common denominator. We need Ted to fire Ernie, bring in a good GM and stay out of the way.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2013 at 12:16 PM ----------

agree. I'm not happy we got pennies on the dollar either; but I am glad crawford is gone. The buy form BF was spot on.

If this is all for Beal's development, then I am 100% for the trade. If Crawford showed any humility or the ability to adapt his game within the flow of the offense when he got his chances, he'd probably still be here.

Fan Poll on Bullets Forever grading the trade. A-F: how did the Wizards do on this trade.

0%

A (3 votes)

2%

B (8 votes)

6%

C (22 votes)

14%

D (49 votes)

75%

F (246 votes)

I'd give the trade itself an F as well. Like I said before...I now understand why he was moved...but I think we got pennies on the dollar for him.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Ernie's Horrifically Bad Decisions

Forgot about some of these

[SuperBash]

Someone ought send that link to Ted. Has he said anything since yesterday about the trade?

[rictus58]

Eg, is nearly as bad as Vinny Cerrato

[MonkFan8]

Ernie's Horrifically Bad Decisions

Forgot about some of these

If I remember correctly, only one EG draft pick has ever made the all star team, and that was one season from Michael Redd.

[StillUnknown]

Someone ought send that link to Ted. Has he said anything since yesterday about the trade?

http://tedstake.monumentalnetwork.com/wizards-make-trade-deadline-deal/index.jsp

We have started to see our team come together the past 20 or so games, and we like the chemistry of those players in Coach Wittman’s rotation as well as the team commitment we’ve seen on the defensive end.

Jordan Crawford’s playing time had become limited, and he did not figure into our short-term or long-term plans. He will join a Boston team that has an immediate backcourt need due to injuries. In return we obtained Jason Collins, a 7-footer who has been part of two NBA Finals, and Leandro Barbosa, who will miss the remainder of the season with a torn ACL.

This trade created roster flexibility because the contracts of the players we acquired will expire at season’s end. Crawford has one year remaining on his contract. Here is a link to an interview with Ernie Grunfeld and the news release.

Gotta love his mentioning Collins' appearances in 2 NBA Finals, as if they mean a damn thing now.

2 months ago, the same owner gave him praise:

http://tedstake.monumentalnetwork.com/2012/12/21/positive-attitude-from-jordan-crawford/index.jsp

Jordan is in his 3rd season in the NBA. He has been forced, because of injuries to the squad, to play a much different role for our team. He is showing his talents and his competitiveness. He is handling the new burdens of being the on-court leader quite well.

As noted, we are missing John Wall, Bradley Beal, and AJ Price from our back court. Jordan has done a terrific job in trying to pick up the pace for our team, play point guard, plus provide scoring.

Here is a nice article about his development and role on our team. I admire his positive – every day is a new day – attitude.

Edited February 22, 2013 by StillUnknown

[Destino]

bad comparison on RGIII and Beal. Beal came into the season as a young 19 year old.....a year removed from high school. RGIII was 22 when he came to the skins. He had spent three years in college (two of them as the leader of his college team) I don't know about you, but I know I grew a lot as a person from the ages of 18-22.....it is the time in most people's lives where they start to become a man. Beal is still practically a kid coming onto a team that already has it's "leader" ...it would be bad if he came in from day one demanding respect (without earning it) and trying to take the leadership role on the team. The skins really didn't have a leader on offense...the QB in the NFL is supposed to be the leader....especially if you are the #2 overall pick.

completely different situations....apples and oranges.

as far as Wall is concerned....I think he's done quite well as the leader of the team. He always plays hard and says the right things in interviews. He has done nothing to show me he can't lead this team....he even came in and had to be a leader when we had clowns like Blatche and Crawford on the roster. Beal seems like a pretty level headed kid. Hopefully him and wall embrace the fact that they will have to be elite on and off the court in order for this team to succeed.

To be clear, I said the writer made them out as if they were too soft. Beal for being unable to deal with Crawford and Wall for wanting to hand over leadership to Beal (an odd comment). I didnt agree with that and said as much. I suspect his take on the situation is wrong.

[CrypticVillain]

Eg, is nearly as bad as Vinny Cerrato

Say what you want about Vinny, at least most of his moves made sense. Most of EG's moves have been some head scratchers to say the least....

[nuposse87]

we should all mass spam his blog with a link to that fire ernie blog article.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2013 at 02:11 PM ----------

Say what you want about Vinny, at least most of his moves made sense. Most of EG's moves have been some head scratchers to say the least....

Vinny drafted guys who could have performed, I'd say he failed in fostering institutional control that would have maximized the players' abilities (hiring/firing coaches etc..). EG sucks phallical objects in every way possible.

[StillUnknown]

we should all mass spam his blog with a link to that fire ernie blog article.

Ted wouldn't care, remember point #10 of the "10 point plan"

10. Never settle--never rest--keep on improving. Around the edges to the plan, have monthly, quarterly and annual check ups. Refresh the plan when needed but for the right reasons-- "how are we doing against our metrics of success and where are we on our path to a championship." Never listen to bloggers, media, so called experts--to thine own self be true. Enjoy the ride.