The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

Nothing to do with play either because he was absolutely horrendous.

What exactly has changed with this team?

It's pretty hypocritical for Wittman to talk about earning your way through play and then put Ariza in the starting lineup.

[No Excuses]

It's pretty hypocritical for Wittman to talk about earning your way through play and then put Ariza in the starting lineup.

Wittman is the newest scapegoat for Grunfeld and Leonsis.

I doubt he has much say on any roster or lineup decisions.

[shuler74]

Good news is we dont have to look at this anymore....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_TRyPs75kM

[argentina_redskins]

Also, the Ariza/Okafor trade is probably the worst one the Wizards have made in the past 10 years.

Paying $7 million to a #3 who can't hit a J to save his life? You're telling me you can't find that in the open market for the minimum? Ridiculous. Everyone knew that NO was trying to dump salary and yet you gladly take it on for nothing.

We couldn't have managed this rebuild any worse. At first, we wanted to blow it all up and build just around Wall, but yet we've ended up surrounding him with veterans who are no better than C- talent. I just don't get it.

Then again, some of the young guys might take a step forward and help carry this team to respectability. But they haven't shown that much before - God, I hope I'm wrong and for the first time in 5 years we can achieve the lofty goal of being respectable (I'm talking just 35 wins -- sad, but i'd take it).

[Destino]

Wittman is the newest scapegoat for Grunfeld and Leonsis.

I doubt he has much say on any roster or lineup decisions.

I'd love to know if Grunfeld actually forces Wittman to play certain players. It would certainly explain the attitude of many players on this team.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Destino

[Warhead36]

The Wizards have fallen into complete insignificance in the D.C. sports circle.

[No Excuses]

I'd love to know if Grunfeld actually forces Wittman to play certain players. It would certainly explain the attitude of many players on this team.

Without a doubt I think. I'm not a Wittman fan, but I think no NBA coach would have inserted Trevor Ariza into the starting lineup after his lazy half assed performance in the preseason.

He's basically Rashard Lewis all over again. Overpaid, lazy, not interested in playing for a bottom feeder.

I think this was a call from the management.

Edited October 30, 2012 by No Excuses

[StillUnknown]

Also, the Ariza/Okafor trade is probably the worst one the Wizards have made in the past 10 years.

Still bugs me we didn't get a draft pick out of that deal.

Paying $7 million to a #3 who can't hit a J to save his life? You're telling me you can't find that in the open market for the minimum? Ridiculous. Everyone knew that NO was trying to dump salary and yet you gladly take it on for nothing.

They picked up Webster for a little over minimum and he has thoroughly outplayed the guy they traded for.

We couldn't have managed this rebuild any worse. At first, we wanted to blow it all up and build just around Wall, but yet we've ended up surrounding him with veterans who are no better than C- talent. I just don't get it.

Then again, some of the young guys might take a step forward and help carry this team to respectability. But they haven't shown that much before - God, I hope I'm wrong and for the first time in 5 years we can achieve the lofty goal of being respectable (I'm talking just 35 wins -- sad, but i'd take it).

Ted and crew basically sacrificed a true rebuild for a team who will top out at 7th or 8th if everything goes right. Basketball purgatory.

[Gator Bait]

Regarding Nene, he isn't a great defender, but he's a decent enough anchor that knows how to play the team concept well enough. You don't need to have an defensive MVP candidate to be a good defensive team, you just need 8-9 guys that bust their ass.

Okafor is an average NBA center, above average defense...but mediocre in other aspects. Ariza is a good defender...but to say he is great is stretching it. I'd prefer if Ariza actually never got any playing time. He is so bad offensively his impact is negated by his ineptitude.

Our best defensive lineup most likely will be:

Wall

Wester

Singleton

Jan

Mek

If' we're up a possession at the end of a game, thats the line up I want to see on the floor, maybe substitute booker with okafor depending on how big the opposing team plays.

Opinion is opinion....I don't think you necessarily don't know the game....but I'm extremely surprised you'd call Okafor an average NBA center who is above average in defense and mediocre in all other aspects........Okafor is one of the better defensive centers in the league. Obviously Howard and Noah are better than him.....but I think you'd be hard pressed to find three other guys who are clearly better. He is also a very good rebounder. His offensive game is average, but he has improved over the years and will greatly benefit by playing with a very capable post offensive player (Nene) and a point guard like John Wall.

Ariza is definitely a very good perimeter defender...hands down best on the team, so I'm puzzled that you wouldn't put him in the defensive lineup you listed. Also, John Wall is a horrible defender, so how does he make that lineup? Ariza also isn't as bad offensively as you say. He gets in trouble when he tries to play like he is a first or second scoring option, but when he settles down and knows his role (the 4th option) he'll be fine.

I think our best defensive lineup is:

Price

Beal

Ariza

Barron

Okafor

best offensive:

Wall

Beal

Webster

Nene

Okafor

Best all around lineup:

Wall

Beal

Ariza

Nene

Okafor

Webster as the 6th man coming off the bench to light it up.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 01:24 PM ----------

Been a Wizards fan since moving to the US, about 8 seasons or so. This is probably the worst roster ever put together in DC. The starting 5 tomorrow make me want to throw up - I have no idea how anyone could be predicting playoffs for this team. I'll still root for them, but I just don't see how this team is anything but a bottom 7 team in the league. Ernie Grunfeld is the worst GM in the NBA and I still don't understand how they kept him.

where are you people getting this from? Last year's starting 5 was much worse than this year's

We actually have a 7/8 seed roster if we weren't so banged up....still might be able to make up the ground and get into the playoffs.

Webster and Ariza are both better than any 3 we had on the roster since Caron Butler

Beal is a better 2 guard (already) than any two guard we've had since Larry Hughes

Nene and Okafor is the best big man combo we've had since Howard/Webber

[Gator Bait]

The past two rosters were much worse IMO. This team actually has a handful of quality NBA players on it. Not just a handful of developmental players and a bunch of scrubs like the last two. People are sleeping on Nene, Okafor, Booker, and Seraphin IMO. That's actually a solid group of bigs. A lot of teams have it worse than that.

this

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 01:34 PM ----------

Also, the Ariza/Okafor trade is probably the worst one the Wizards have made in the past 10 years.

Paying $7 million to a #3 who can't hit a J to save his life? You're telling me you can't find that in the open market for the minimum? Ridiculous. Everyone knew that NO was trying to dump salary and yet you gladly take it on for nothing.

We couldn't have managed this rebuild any worse. At first, we wanted to blow it all up and build just around Wall, but yet we've ended up surrounding him with veterans who are no better than C- talent. I just don't get it.

Then again, some of the young guys might take a step forward and help carry this team to respectability. But they haven't shown that much before - God, I hope I'm wrong and for the first time in 5 years we can achieve the lofty goal of being respectable (I'm talking just 35 wins -- sad, but i'd take it).

you couldn't be any more off base with this comment.

The Ariza/Okafor trade was great for us. It adds two veteran/starting caliber role players to a team with only two legit starters. Ariza may not have much of an offensive game, but he does know how to play defense and will fill the role of best perimeter defense on this team. Okafor is a very good defender and rebounder. He will be a great mentor for Seraphin and is a great player for Seraphin to model his game after.

and what did we trade to get for these guys? Rashard "bum" Lewis. I think it was a steal.

....btw....don't try to argue about their salaries or our cap space.....because cap space is only good if you can actually get quality players to come to your team. The Wizards aren't attracting anyone to come play here until we actually can field a respectable roster. Okafor, Nene, and Ariza help make our roster look a bit more respectable.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 01:40 PM ----------

Kyre just had his wisdom teeth removed...he'll either be in serious pain or loopy from pain medication. Good for us.

[Gator Bait]

A few game predictions:

Beal: 14 points 5 boards and 3 assists

Crawford: 28 points 2 boards and 2 assists

Okafor: 17 points 12 boards

Price: 8 points 8 assists

Webster: 18 points 6 boards 2 assists

Booker: 12 points 8 boards

[nuposse87]

Opinion is opinion....I don't think you necessarily don't know the game....but I'm extremely surprised you'd call Okafor an average NBA center who is above average in defense and mediocre in all other aspects........Okafor is one of the better defensive centers in the league. Obviously Howard and Noah are better than him.....but I think you'd be hard pressed to find three other guys who are clearly better. He is also a very good rebounder. His offensive game is average, but he has improved over the years and will greatly benefit by playing with a very capable post offensive player (Nene) and a point guard like John Wall.

Ariza is definitely a very good perimeter defender...hands down best on the team, so I'm puzzled that you wouldn't put him in the defensive lineup you listed. Also, John Wall is a horrible defender, so how does he make that lineup? Ariza also isn't as bad offensively as you say. He gets in trouble when he tries to play like he is a first or second scoring option, but when he settles down and knows his role (the 4th option) he'll be fine.

Uhhh no... http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/21/3105119/trevor-ariza-emeka-okafor-washington-wizards-breakdown

While They have shown signs of being above average they have also been bad in years past.They have the abilities to be at least average on this team, okafor especially since he seems to be more of a professional, and I apprecitate the attitude he has, but Ariza is a scum **** as far as i'm concerned. Okafor average about 10 ppg, hardly a world beater but not bad. Average. I'd rather start seraphin when healthy though. He still has ability to grow and become Nene part 2 but with superior D (assuming he makes the strides he did last year).

Again, you haven't offered up any sort of rebuttal to the fact this team played far better defense when the knuckleheads were shipped off. It is hard for a young PG to look competent out there when he is playing with a team that doesn't rotate well. Wall isn't on like...CP3 level or anything but to say he's in the bottom half is just wrong.

I think our best defensive lineup is:

Price

Beal

Ariza

Barron

Okafor

It is situational, Wall is still better than price. Webster can guard 2s and has superior length, Singleton the same for 3s, then I'd consider either Booker or Jan at the 4. Done.

best offensive:

Wall

Beal

Webster

Nene

Okafor

Seraphin is a better low post threat then Okafor. You could put nene at the 5 and put booker at the 4 as well.

Best all around lineup:

Wall

Beal

Ariza

Nene

Okafor

Webster as the 6th man coming off the bench to light it up.

Ariza doesn't deserve to see the light of the day. Our only salvageable hope for him is some other teams misfortune. If another SF goes down that needs a stop gap 3, we should get on the phone quick.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 01:57 PM ----------

As for game predictions itself. I think the team is about where it was at the end of the last season even without wall. The veterans should add some stability and we should be able to hold our own against bottom feeders like the cavs. We will need Nene and Seraphin to play at a high level until Wall comes back to stay competitive against mid tier teams. Luckily, we play a lot of top tier teams early on so games we probably would have lost with wall anyways won't hurt as bad.

Wiz win tonight....90-82

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

How in the hell can anyone say this team is worse than last years?

I've gone on record as saying they were the stupidest, lowest IQ, talentless collection of idiots assembled ever.

This team at least has pros on it

[Gator Bait]

Ariza doesn't deserve to see the light of the day. Our only salvageable hope for him is some other teams misfortune. If another SF goes down that needs a stop gap 3, we should get on the phone quick.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 01:57 PM ----------

As for game predictions itself. I think the team is about where it was at the end of the last season even without wall. The veterans should add some stability and we should be able to hold our own against bottom feeders like the cavs. We will need Nene and Seraphin to play at a high level until Wall comes back to stay competitive against mid tier teams. Luckily, we play a lot of top tier teams early on so games we probably would have lost with wall anyways won't hurt as bad.

Wiz win tonight....90-82

I hope you are wrong and I'm right about Ariza. I do think Webster deserves to start....I was telling my roommate that a few days ago (we both agreed). But I still have faith in Ariza. I think he has a pretty good game tonight.

As far as the score of the game. I think we win with Crawford lighting it up off the bench (and I'm not a big Crawford fan) but he is a Cavs killer. 88-81

[No Excuses]

How in the hell can anyone say this team is worse than last years?

I don't see anyone making that claim.

Still, this team still sucks really bad, with or without Wall. Nene is the only legitimate NBA player besides Wall on this roster.

There are a lot of people who will be sorely disappointed by Okafor and Ariza as the season progresses. Okafor is decent, but Trevor Ariza has been quite bad for a while now.

Edited October 30, 2012 by No Excuses

[Gator Bait]

I don't see anyone making that claim.

Still, this team still sucks really bad, with or without Wall. Nene is the only legitimate NBA player besides Wall on this roster.

There are a lot of people who will be sorely disappointed by Okafor and Ariza as the season progresses. Okafor is decent, but Trevor Ariza has been quite bad for a while now.

You don't think a center with a double double average over the past 8 years is a legit NBA starter???? Really?

I'm not sure if Beal should be starting right away....but he will also be a legit starter half way through the season.

Ariza gets a lot of hate on this board....I bet he's getting a lot of love a quarter of a way through the season. Defense wins basketball games....you'll see!

[nuposse87]

I don't see anyone making that claim.

Still, this team still sucks really bad, with or without Wall. Nene is the only legitimate NBA player besides Wall on this roster.

There are a lot of people who will be sorely disappointed by Okafor and Ariza as the season progresses. Okafor is decent, but Trevor Ariza has been quite bad for a while now.

I disagree, by no means is this a top 4 seed roster in a weak east..but to say we're full of D-league players is wrong.

Seraphin at the very least is a quality backup, who I think can become a top 10 all around center, this year. At least offensively. Okafor is a decent center, he won't be the reason u win, but he won't be the reason u lose. Nene is near all star quality if he could stay healthy. Booker is undersized but plays big, he might not deserve to start on a championship team, but he could be the first big man off the bench. Beal's fortune is that he plays a position that is easily the weakest in the NBA. He probably should give us average to slightly less average production right away, but hopefully trending upwards as the season progresses. I thought SF would be our weakest position going in, I am pleasantly surprised with the play of Webster and Singleton though. Singleton looks like he actually cares out there and Webster is playing ridiculously well all things considered. All we need them to do is knock down 3s and play D. They seem fully capable so far. We need to sign Livingston though, PG by committee with pargo involved is gonna suck hard. Price is still a backup in this league and so is Livingston, but our bread and butter will have to be our bigs, something we actually have quality in.

It won't be easy but there is talent at significant positions. I would be more confident with a top tier coach but Ted is showing some rather cheap colors IMO. I like randy, but he is the real wild card IMO. That he can get these guys to develop the right way. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I don't see a reason to completely give up yet. If the team does end up failing, EG is out, and that is a win for the team in the long run.

[argentina_redskins]

God, I hope I'm wrong about the Wizards. Been a fan for way too long - and been crushed by continuous disappointments.

I just don't see how Price/Crawford/Ariza/Booker can play key roles on a playoff team, and it's not like the rest of the team is great.

Also, besides the talent point, unexpected injuries (Wall/Seraphin) will definitely affect our record, as well as expected ones (Nene/Okafor -- should've taken into account when trading for two injury-prone players).

[pjfootballer]

LOL at calling the Cavs bottom feeders. We had the 2nd worst record in the league, so what does that make us?

[Gator Bait]

God, I hope I'm wrong about the Wizards. Been a fan for way too long - and been crushed by continuous disappointments.

I just don't see how Price/Crawford/Ariza/Booker can play key roles on a playoff team, and it's not like the rest of the team is great.

Also, besides the talent point, unexpected injuries (Wall/Seraphin) will definitely affect our record, as well as expected ones (Nene/Okafor -- should've taken into account when trading for two injury-prone players).

First of all....when Wall gets back, Price will barely see the court. When Nene and Seraphin are back, Booker will rarely see the court. This is how I predict the rotation will take shape when everyone is healthy (with minutes played)

Wall (36)

Beal (30)

Ariza (24)

Nene (30)

Okafor (30)

Webster (24)

Seraphin (18)

Crawford (16)

Singleton (8)

Booker (8)

Price (8)

Vesely (8)

inactives: Barron, Martin, Pargo

breakdown per position:

PG: Wall-36; Price-8; Crawford-4

SG: Beal-30; Crawford-12; Ariza-6

SF: Ariza-18; Webster-24; Singleton-6

PF: Nene-30; Booker-8; Vesely-8; Singleton-2

C: Okafor-30; Seraphin-18

you could see a bit more of a mix up at center, with Okafor, Nene, and Seraphin all sharing minutes.

Okafor and Seraphin can also play PF. I think Booker is strictly a 4. Singleton and Vesely are both combo forwards. Ariza is a swingman that can play both 2 and 3....Webster could as well. Wall and Crawford are both combo guards (obviously you want wall to take up as many of the PG minutes as possible, but he is also capable of playing the 2 on defense. Price isn't a world beater, but he is the second best PG on this team and you can definitely do worst for 8 minutes per game.

obviously while Wall, Nene, and Seraphin are out, the other guys have their chances to make the most of their minutes. Vesely/Singleton/Booker are going to be battling for rotation minutes....if we are actually a playoff contender at the end of the year, I can see us going to a 9 man rotation and only rolling with one of these guys minutes wise.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 03:40 PM ----------

LOL at calling the Cavs bottom feeders. We had the 2nd worst record in the league, so what does that make us?

we are what the bottom feeders feed on

[Rocky21]

Holy ****. I just realized our season opener is tonight!

[pjfootballer]

I get the free preview of the NBA the first 2 weeks. I might check them out just to see, since there is nothing else on tonight.

[Going Commando]

Ariza has dogged it through the entire summer Rashard Lewis style. I'd rather see Singleton and Webster get all of his minutes and Booker take the floor than Ariza get burn, Terrible effort needs to go punished.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 05:07 PM ----------

I think you're expectations for Airza are too high Gator and your expectations for guys like Booker are too low.

Booker has had health problems, but when healthy, he's been a good player in a variety of roles.

Ariza was solid defensively from 08-09 to 10-11, but not so much last year. He's also not that great offensively since he left the Lakers to make for lapses in defense. Combine a down year from him last year playing for a terrible NO team with his lack of effort so far, you have to worry about him getting a Rashard Lewis mentality. He could have gotten here, taken a look at how the organization is run, figured we're losers and that he's going to phone it in and collect his paycheck until he's out of here just like many have done the past couple of years.

I'd rather see a hungry player like Booker go out and fight and play those minutes instead. Book is a young big man with a career PER of 15.4, indicating he can be a valuable contributor already. He doesn't hurt you on either end of the court.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I get the free preview of the NBA the first 2 weeks. I might check them out just to see, since there is nothing else on tonight.

good catch PJ...i got the free preview too

I'm excited now (see how long this lasts)

[Gator Bait]

Ariza has dogged it through the entire summer Rashard Lewis style. I'd rather see Singleton and Webster get all of his minutes and Booker take the floor than Ariza get burn, Terrible effort needs to go punished.

---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 05:07 PM ----------

I think you're expectations for Airza are too high Gator and your expectations for guys like Booker are too low.

Booker has had health problems, but when healthy, he's been a good player in a variety of roles.

Ariza was solid defensively from 08-09 to 10-11, but not so much last year. He's also not that great offensively since he left the Lakers to make for lapses in defense. Combine a down year from him last year playing for a terrible NO team with his lack of effort so far, you have to worry about him getting a Rashard Lewis mentality. He could have gotten here, taken a look at how the organization is run, figured we're losers and that he's going to phone it in and collect his paycheck until he's out of here just like many have done the past couple of years.

I'd rather see a hungry player like Booker go out and fight and play those minutes instead. Book is a young big man with a career PER of 15.4, indicating he can be a valuable contributor already. He doesn't hurt you on either end of the court.

I think you miss interpreted my post. Those are the minutes I expect to see. I absolutely love Booker; but with the Nene/Okafor and Webster/Ariza pickups....I think his minutes will suffer.

We'll see. I hope I'm wrong about his minutes and he bust through this season; but I think his opportunities are going to be few and far between with our injured guys come back. He really needs to make the most of his starting opportunities early on. I'd love to see him get a double double tonight.