The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

Is this even a make or break year for Ernie? If we have a horrible season and pick in the top 3 yet again, would there even be any chance he gets fired? Actually, we should be so lucky. No I think we're probably just good enough for that to never even come up. We'll finish like 9th or 10th in the conference and plant ourselves firmly in no man's land with a team with no flexibility for an entire season after this one.

We need a culture change in the FO.

If the season doesn't go like they want, they'll blame injuries and the front office will return next year.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

man, Kyrie is a better point guard than Wall right now. He is a lot smarter and can run an offense better.

I think Wall could be better in the future, but Kyrie is better right now.

and Ernie is staying. This organization is fine with mediocrity.

Edited October 28, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[Going Commando]

Steve after reading that I went looking for Walls latest shoe. It just came out... and I haven't seen any advertising at all. They are still ugly.

Reebok is second rate. Third rate.

Btw - Harden to Houston trade just happened.

Inexplicable trade for me, from all angles.

For the Thunder, I'll never understand why they decided to keep Serge Ibaka over Harden. Is this a huge indictment of Harden? Or is this an obviously stupid mistake? I don't know. Even still, the deal breaker for them was 4.5 million dollars? WTF?

For Harden, he seriously left the Thunder for Houston for 4.5 million more dollars? WTF????? Give them the discount you utter fool!! You were going to win rings there and play a major part in doing so. Now your only hope for one is to try and tag along as some bench warming role player one cheapo one or two year deals at the end of your career.

For Houston... well it's an understandable deal on their part I guess. Not a great deal, but you can see the reasoning behind it. They're going to be disappointed by him from a basketball standpoint of course. He's not the alpha high end player they're looking for. After striking out on Dwight, ending up with Harden is a bummer. That team has officially capped itself at mediocre for good. They'll compete with the Jazz and other deep but middle-heavy West squads for the lower seeds and the right to lose to the upper echelon teams in the playoffs. But they're far more marketable with Harden and Lin than they were before this summer. It makes sense from a dollars perspective. Except too bad they wasted a ton of money on Omer Asik.

---------- Post added October-28th-2012 at 12:31 AM ----------

man, Kyrie is a better point guard than Wall right now. He is a lot smarter and can run an offense better.

I think Wall could be better in the future, but Kyrie is better right now.

and Ernie is staying. This organization is fine with mediocrity.

Kyrie is a better shooter and scorer, a more efficient offensive player. Not a better PG than Wall. Not as good a playmaker, not asked to shoulder the same burden of leadership, and he can't defend whatsoever. At least Wall stays on the court like a full starter and team leader.

[RonArtest15]

Steve after reading that I went looking for Walls latest shoe. It just came out... and I haven't seen any advertising at all. They are still ugly.

Btw - Harden to Houston trade just happened.

Have a feeling that after Wall's deal w/ Reebok is up, he'll go over to adidas or Nike. Only ads I see for Reebok are for crossfit. That's where they're putting their ad money *shrugs*

*edit*

and we've talked about this before - the NBA is a business

@JonesOnTheNBA Harden can get up to 5yrs/$78M in Houston instead of 4 year $52 mil OKC offered. Significant difference.

I get it. Harden would be absolutely foolish to leave that much money on the table JUST to say in OKC. His value is FAR greater than Ibaka's and I'm sure he was a tad bit insulted at their offer. I also believe he was stewing privately.

Edited October 28, 2012 by RonArtest15

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Have a feeling that after Wall's deal w/ Reebok is up, he'll go over to adidas or Nike. Only ads I see for Reebok are for crossfit. That's where they're putting their ad money *shrugs*

*edit*

and we've talked about this before - the NBA is a business

he had a promotional event last week in DC for his newest shoe. It was in the WaPo.

---------- Post added October-28th-2012 at 10:11 AM ----------

Kyrie is a better shooter and scorer, a more efficient offensive player. Not a better PG than Wall. Not as good a playmaker, not asked to shoulder the same burden of leadership, and he can't defend whatsoever. At least Wall stays on the court like a full starter and team leader.

you dont remember this in the summer?

Scrimmages have been closed to reporters, but some observers of the practices said that Wall has encountered some initial problems getting the team into sets and still needs to improve his jumper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/john-wall-overcomes-fine-learning-in-las-vegas/2012/07/10/gJQAtiReZW_blog.html

meanwhile, Kyrie was great at the camp, and was the star of the development team.

I believe Wall has the potential to be better, but Kyrie is a better point guard right now. Kyrie is basically Rod Strickland with a jumper (makes sense, since thats his godfather and worked with Kyrie on his game). He better than Wall in finishing around the basket too.

[Going Commando]

you dont remember this in the summer?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/john-wall-overcomes-fine-learning-in-las-vegas/2012/07/10/gJQAtiReZW_blog.html

meanwhile, Kyrie was great at the camp, and was the star of the development team.

I believe Wall has the potential to be better, but Kyrie is a better point guard right now. Kyrie is basically Rod Strickland with a jumper (makes sense, since thats his godfather and worked with Kyrie on his game). He better than Wall in finishing around the basket too.

Wall's already better all around. A couple of camp rumors doesn't change what happened on the court last season. Kyrie is a better and more efficient scorer. But he's not as good a passer or playmaker, not as good a defender, rebounder, nor as good getting to the line and getting points. He's not asked to do as much for his team, and he has better teammates that can properly space the floor.

Maybe he'll be better than Wall at some of those things this year. But you can't say he already is based on last season.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Wall's already better all around. A couple of camp rumors doesn't change what happened on the court last season. Kyrie is a better and more efficient scorer. But he's not as good a passer or playmaker, not as good a defender, rebounder, nor as good getting to the line and getting points. He's not asked to do as much for his team, and he has better teammates that can properly space the floor.

Maybe he'll be better than Wall at some of those things this year. But you can't say he already is based on last season.

thats not true

and Kyrie is a better a point guard. I dont know how you can watch the two play and not see that. Wall still struggles with pacing himself and the team, while Kyrie had that down last season.

I think Wall should end up a better player, but I look at the two and see Kyrie outshining him last year even with the one v one match ups.

[Going Commando]

thats not true

and Kyrie is a better a point guard. I dont know how you can watch the two play and not see that. Wall still struggles with pacing himself and the team, while Kyrie had that down last season.

I think Wall should end up a better player, but I look at the two and see Kyrie outshining him last year even with the one v one match ups.

It's true. Kyrie played 30 minutes per game for his team and came out of games in favor of Ramon Sessions as a defensive sub.

Wall has been playing 37 MPG and is the linchpin for the entire team, plus a day one captain.

Summary of John Hollinger's take on Irving: http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/10/hollinger-i-shudder-to-think-what-kyrie-irving-will-be-at-25/

Irving is a far more efficient scorer, better ball handler, better shooter than Wall. He's got a great inside-outside game already. But Wall's been better at pretty much all other aspects of the game. Though that's probably not saying a ton. Kyrie Irving was rated as the worst defensive player in the league with at least 300 plays defended by Synergy Sports. He also had just a 0.81 Pure Point Rating, good for 59th in the NBA among PGs. His assist rate was 58th among PGs. He wasn't a good distributor last year, he was much more of a scorer.

Better scorer and shooter? Without question. Better PG? Only if defense, leadership, and passing don't count much for you.

[Destino]

I haven't seen a great deal of "leadership" from Wall. He also struggles in the half court offense. I don't think Kyrie is great but Wall has more flaws than a missing jumper. We discussed his handing the ball off to Crawford and then sulking in the half court last year.

I wonder if Wittman has the balls to make Wall the 4th option on offense? Kind of like a "learn to shoot, or take 7 shots a game" learning experience.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Destino

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I haven't seen a great deal of "leadership" from Wall. He also struggles in the half court offense. I don't think Kyrie is great but Wall has more flaws than a missing jumper. We discussed his handing the ball off to Crawford and then sulking in the half court last year.

I wonder if Wittman has the balls to make Wall the 4th option on offense? Kind of like a "learn to shoot, or take 7 shots a game" learning experience.

Wall even said he didnt want to be the leader, and that it was all too much for him. And he has a lot of problems in a half court offense.

I dont see how anyone can watch Wall and Irving play and think Wall is the better point guard right now.

[Going Commando]

I haven't seen a great deal of "leadership" from Wall. He also struggles in the half court offense. I don't think Kyrie is great but Wall has more flaws than a missing jumper. We discussed his handing the ball off to Crawford and then sulking in the half court last year.

Wall is a vocal leader and has received nothing but praise about his leadership qualities from everyone who has interacted with him. That includes both his time at Kentucky and his time in Washington.

You're overstating how often Crawford ran point and Wall played off the ball. I remember those plays too, and the purpose of them wasn't to try and remove Wall from the equation, but to get him easier shots.

I think you've swung too far against Wall. You're letting your frustration cloud your sense of the team.

I wonder if Wittman has the balls to make Wall the 4th option on offense? Kind of like a "learn to shoot, or take 7 shots a game" learning experience.

No offense, but that would be ridiculous and counterproductive. Wall is a playmaker and our best offensive creator and a Wall drive is one of the most effective shots in the NBA. He gets to the line at a tremendous rate, he creates room for teammates, and he puts pressure on a defense. We'd make ourselves immediately worse by doing what you suggest and probably wreck his confidence in the process.

The model for developing Wall is very clearly in Chicago.

---------- Post added October-28th-2012 at 04:15 PM ----------

Wall even said he didnt want to be the leader, and that it was all too much for him. And he has a lot of problems in a half court offense.

I dont see how anyone can watch Wall and Irving play and think Wall is the better point guard right now.

So do you not consider playing defense and passing part of playing PG?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I never said defense wasnt, just like its the case for centers, power forwards, small forwards, and 2 guards.

But Irving runs their offense better than Wall does.

[StillUnknown]

I hope I have power tuesday night, I'd hate to miss the season opener.

[SuperBash]

Mack and Cook gone.

[Going Commando]

I never said defense wasnt, just like its the case for centers, power forwards, small forwards, and 2 guards.

But Irving runs their offense better than Wall does.

That's a different claim though. He's an extremely efficient scorer and shooter and pretty efficient all around offensive player. But I'm not sure you can truly say he's running that offense like a traditional PG. His assist totals and PPR are low and his scoring is high, demonstrating his primary offensive role is scoring.

That's much different than John's role. John is ideally the first offensive option too, but a much bigger emphasis is put on him passing the ball and facilitating teammates. John is a better passer than Irving by a pretty wide margin, a better facilitator, he's more in the mold of the traditional PG. Wall's PPRs are much higher than Kyrie's. He had a 3.97 this year (34th) and a 4.53 his rookie season (19th), whereas Kyrie's PPR was a 1.38 (62nd).

Kyrie's assist to turnover ratio was also worse at 1.72 to Wall's 2.08 demonstrating he's a less efficient passer.

[MonkFan8]

Mack and Cook gone.

Pretty surprising to me on both counts. Not a huge Mack fan, but I don't see Pargo being any better. Mack is a capable backup but really lacks any sort of speed to make him effective against NBA starters. Still would have kept him around at Pargo's expense.

Cook I thought played his way into a roster spot given our injuries to the big men.

Meh, not the first Wizards personnel move that has surprised me.

[StillUnknown]

Pretty surprising to me on both counts. Not a huge Mack fan, but I don't see Pargo being any better. Mack is a capable backup but really lacks any sort of speed to make him effective against NBA starters. Still would have kept him around at Pargo's expense.

Cook I thought played his way into a roster spot given our injuries to the big men.

Meh, not the first Wizards personnel move that has surprised me.

I'm not surprised by either move.

If Brian Cook is on your roster, you are either a championship contender or a bottom feeder. He literally has nothing to offer a team with the exception of a line drive 3pt shot that he doesn't make with any consistency.

I think Mack sealed his fate in the summer league, he looked like he didn't belong, probably destroyed any confidence the front office had in him.

[Thinking Skins]

Pretty surprising to me on both counts. Not a huge Mack fan, but I don't see Pargo being any better. Mack is a capable backup but really lacks any sort of speed to make him effective against NBA starters. Still would have kept him around at Pargo's expense.

Cook I thought played his way into a roster spot given our injuries to the big men.

Meh, not the first Wizards personnel move that has surprised me.

I felt like both move could go either way. I'm not a fan of Cook and his no inside game game, but I don't think that our 14th and 15th guys on the roster will be the difference in us being a lottery team or not. I've liked Mack, but I don't think he has a real future. We'd just be holding onto him for the same reason we kept a bunch of other non-NBA type guys - loyalty. and that's no reason to keep a guy. I thought Barron showed more potential in that last game and that Pargo, limited as his PG skills are, showed that he can be a better scorer than Mack and that's really important on this team.

[MonkFan8]

Eh, I don't really disagree with either of you. I'd personal go with Mack and hope he can improve rather than going with a 33 year old worse version of Jordan Crawford. But the writing was on the wall since SL, you're right about that.

Barron, meh. One of the most uncoordinated players I've ever seen. Would rather have Cook just for spot up shooting. We'll see what happens, I guess. Its just unfortunate that our injury situation means these guys are actually going to have to play decent minutes.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/10/29/3570594/washington-wizards-starting-lineup-martell-webster-trevor-ariza

It really shouldn't be that hard of a decision for Randy Wittman to list Martell Webster's name on the starting lineup card for Tuesday's season opener against the Cleveland Cavaliers. That it is speaks to the politics of the league, where bigger salaries, psychology and management's hopes dictate lineup decisions more than merit. Still, if we're basing this decision solely on merit, Webster has earned the starting job over Trevor Ariza.

And if Wittman is serious about his talk of a meritocracy, he should give Webster what he deserves.

Much more in the link

I agree that Webster should get the starting nod.

[pjfootballer]

OK, time to predict their record. I want to see how many ultra homers we have in here. No excuse for the Wall injury, it is what it is. Last year we finished 20-46, which roughly is 25-57 in an 82 game schedule. I say they improve a little. Not much. 32-50.

[StillUnknown]

OK, time to predict their record. I want to see how many ultra homers we have in here. No excuse for the Wall injury, it is what it is. Last year we finished 20-46, which roughly is 25-57 in an 82 game schedule. I say they improve a little. Not much. 32-50.

35-47

No Playoffs. Ted uses injuries to excuse the record and not meeting his stated objectives. Ernie & Wittman both return next season and we do this same song and dance again.

I would love to be wrong on my prediction, I would love to see the team squeak into the 8th seed.

[Gator Bait]

. Wall's actually much better at getting to the line, passing, rebounding, and defending plus he's doing it playing more minutes and for a worse team that has not been able to actually space the floor Wall's entire tenure. Is Kyrie's individual future any brighter than Wall's? I doubt it.

.

Agree that Wall is better in all aspects besides shooting; but disagree that he is a better defender. Wall is one of the worst defenders in the NBA...him and Crawford (who is probably the worst defender in the entire NBA) are both revolving doors. They are horrible on the defensive side.

[Duckus]

25 wins.

3 worst record in the league. Only ahead of Bobcats and Orlando.

Ted writes several columns attacking the media and upset fans. Tells us all to be more patient.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Duckus

[Gator Bait]

41-41 8th seed in the playoffs, swept by the Heat in the 1st round.

That front court of Nene and Okafor is going to be hard to handle for most teams in the league. The key is staying healthy. I'm counting on them starting a combined 120 games this year (which may be wishful thinking). I also think Webster will have a career year; averaging between 12-15 ppg. Not expecting a lot from Beal; I thought he was disappointing in the preseason. He may average 10 or 12 ppg at best this year.