Destino Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 http://washingtonexaminer.com/wizards-crawford-embraces-position-battle-with-beal/article/2510948#.UH66cMVZWSq He's right and wrong. Basketball is all about percentages and it's not enough to hit a bad shot every now and then. Derrick Rose attempts about a hundred 3-6 foot off balance one handed no arc floaters from odd angles while running directly at the opposing teams bigs per game. Those are considered bad shots by most reasonable people, because most people could never dream of making most of them. Rose however hits them regularly and so no one would dream of telling him to stop... though they might request he go easier on the knees when attempting them. If Crawford could hit whatever horrible shots he enjoys taking (all of them) with regularity no one would care that he took them. They would become his thing, kind of like Kobe's horrible shooting form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Jordan Crawford is the second coming of Juan Dixon. Inefficient chuckers like him will stick around on ****ty teams and will eventually fade out of the NBA. ---------- Post added October-17th-2012 at 10:33 AM ---------- PS: there is no benefit to trading Vesely. He has no trade value. I don't like giving up on players who are at least interested in getting better and give effort on the court. If he sucks, so be it. He'll get his chance to play through the year. Okafor and Nene aren't staying healthy all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkFan8 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ooh and Enes Kanter. Enes Kanter who MANY of us on here wanted, went #3. He ****ing sucks big time.Kanter is 10x the player Vesely is right now. Don't confuse being on a good team and not getting minutes to sucking. Look at what he's doing in limited preseason minutes compared to Vesely. That said, it was a weak draft but there were numerous players that basically everyone had higher than Vesely on their boards that have turned out to be better players thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 So what if he was the #6 pick???? You serious? HE WAS THE #6 PICK!!! If we drafted a guy to only play defense and finish around the rim, this team would have been better suited to take someone else at that spot or trade back. This is looking like a wasted pick. I'm sorry, but there is no way you can spin this to me to make it seem like Ves has a bright future. Some guys are busts. It's the nature of the game and draft. Not every pick is going to be a home run, and it's looking like Ves falls in that category. You don't draft a guy #6 overall to do things that don't show up in the stat sheet. He's a non-contributor whose game looks like it hasn't gotten a lick better since last season. This is not just me getting caught up in the moment. This goes back to summer league. You really think Summer League and Preseason ball is a good indicator of his potential? Who should we have drafted at 6 RA? You're hung up on that number, ignoring the fact the class sucked and there was no other decent alternative. 22 going on 23 is old by 2nd year player standards of guys picked in the top-10. If he can't crack the rotation or is only getting around 10mpg, what does that tell you? "Oh...let's wait 3-4 years and then we'll have something." What exactly has Vesely shown you so far that makes 1) the pick justified and 2) him a valuable asset of the team's future? This is YOU spinning to try and make your point he's a bust. His birthday is in late April, when the season is over. You're acting like this is his 23 year old season to try and make the point he's not as far along as he should be. What Ves has shown me is that he understands the game. He's got a good BBall IQ and in time, he will be a good defender. On offense he can pass and finish. Last year he proved he can stuff the whole box score. I'm not going to prioritize any summer league or preseason games over what he did in games during the regular season last year. Ves is the type of intangibles player that won't get respect on a bad team. But I guarantee you if he had been picked by Chicago or San Antonio, where there would be no burden on him to produce offensively, he'd be considered a successful pick. Ves's growth and improvement will come simultaneously with the team's growth and improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Kanter is 10x the player Vesely is right now. Don't confuse being on a good team and not getting minutes to sucking. Look at what he's doing in limited preseason minutes compared to Vesely. I just took a look at the stats and I don't see them supporting that argument. Both of them failed to impress in terms of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkFan8 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I just took a look at the stats and I don't see them supporting that argument. Both of them failed to impress in terms of production.One guy is averaging 12 and 11 in 20 minutes, the other is 4 and 5 in 27 minutes. Granted Kanter's efficiency could be better, but I don't see how you could disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 One guy is averaging 12 and 11 in 20 minutes, the other is 4 and 5 in 27 minutes. Granted Kanter's efficiency could be better, but I don't see how you could disagree. Where are you getting your stats from? Its pointless to look at the season total for Jan, especially before the all star break. We got a glimpse of his niche after the knuckleheads were shipped out. Per 36, post all star break Jan's line was: 10.2 ppg 9.1 rb 1.6 assists, with about a 1 bpg. I think its fairer to look at Kanters number throughout the season because he actually got less playing time after the all star break for w/e reason, but his per 36 numbers were: 12.5ppg-11.5rbg-0.3-0.9bpg Not way better, but still a bit better. Not as efficient as Jan, but thats cause the only thing Jan could do was dunk or make a layup. He isn't the passer Jan is, to Jan's credit he makes smart basketball plays, those extra passes that won't show up in the stat sheet. That and Jan's team defense I think is better than Kanter's as well. While I don't think Jan will ever be worthy of a 6th overall selection...kind of knee jerk to discard him as a useless player. Its on him to become more aggressive offensively, but I wont write him off totally yet. It is also obvious playing with Wall really helped his production, the team has to be running to use him most effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkFan8 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Are you both missing (despite the fact that it was underlined - emphasis yours) the fact that I specified limited preseason minutes? Besides, extrapolating per36 from 13 minute regular season averages as a 19 year old rookie really doesn't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Are you both missing (despite the fact that it was underlined - emphasis yours) the fact that I specified limited preseason minutes?Besides, extrapolating per36 from 13 minute regular season averages as a 19 year old rookie really doesn't mean much. Ah so preseason NBA play is a proper gauge for judging a players potential and expected projections. Gotcha. Duly noted. I know sports are a "what have you done for me lately" business but I think if your sample size is just what we've seen so far in this preseason you can make pro/con cases against any established/not established players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 One guy is averaging 12 and 11 in 20 minutes, the other is 4 and 5 in 27 minutes. Granted Kanter's efficiency could be better, but I don't see how you could disagree. You talking about summer league? I ignore those stats because they never seem to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 What is Vesely's skill? What is the one thing you know that he can do in the NBA for the next ten years? Defense. He's long, athletic, and smart. He has the ability to become an elite defender. Great in the passing lanes. Good pick and roll defense. Good help defender with length to contest shots on the perimeter and in the paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Kawhi Leonard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Kawhi Leonard. Looks good mostly because he fell into the best situation possible. He's no more talented than Vesely. He rebounds better, but doesn't shoot or defend any better, and Vesely is longer and a better athlete. Kawhi is little more than a glue man too, with less athletic upside than Ves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/10/18/3519452/washington-wizards-2012-clipboard-bradley-beal-shooting-and-the-flex-offense Click that to see how the wizards are running a flex offense to get Beal open shots. Photos and videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Looks good mostly because he fell into the best situation possible.He's no more talented than Vesely. He rebounds better, but doesn't shoot or defend any better, and Vesely is longer and a better athlete. Kawhi is little more than a glue man too, with less athletic upside than Ves. I don't know if I agree with that. Kawhi has a better shot, more range, fouls less, is a better rebounder, and is a better defender. People were calling him no better than Singleton, which I kinda agreed but thought of him as a more polished version. And his rookie stats show it. He had a PER of 16.67 compared to 11.54 for Vesely and 8.27 for Singleton. And he was getting more minutes per game on a quality team. If you break down their shot selections, particularly from different spots on the court, his numbers are really similar to Singleton, but just better in most every category. Is that because he was on a better team or is just a better player (than both)? I'd probably tend more towards the later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 http://twitter.com/WaltonCaps/statuses/259759694959218688 What does it sound like when a hockey guy does hoops? Find out at 8:30. Wizards at Milwaukee, with me and @GCtalks on the call, WFED 1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I don't know if I agree with that. Kawhi has a better shot, more range, fouls less, is a better rebounder, and is a better defender. People were calling him no better than Singleton, which I kinda agreed but thought of him as a more polished version. And his rookie stats show it. He had a PER of 16.67 compared to 11.54 for Vesely and 8.27 for Singleton. And he was getting more minutes per game on a quality team. If you break down their shot selections, particularly from different spots on the court, his numbers are really similar to Singleton, but just better in most every category. Is that because he was on a better team or is just a better player (than both)? I'd probably tend more towards the later. You make good points. But I do think playing in San Antonio has been the biggest difference for Kawhi. They are fantastic teaching the game to their young players and I don't think you can quantify the benefit for a young guy getting to play for Pop and take the court with vets like Parker, Manu, and Duncan. I bet Ves would look a ton better playing with them too. I just don't see a high upside with Kawhi. He's very strong and has an outstanding motor. Good long arms too, great length for a wing. But he's really a pure perimeter player, and I don't see a good shooting ability there. He's had more success with his percentages than Singleton, but I think Singleton is the better shooter from range TBH. Singleton came into the NBA with some ability to hit a corner 3. Though Singleton is pretty bad when he has to dribble and Kawhi can probably create a bit more off the dribble. I think Kawhi's shooting percentages greatly benefited from San Antonio's vastly superior ability to space the floor and Singleton's were hurt by our complete inability to do so. For me it comes down to Kawhi--better motor and better rebounder, but really a PF in a pure wing's body without elite speed or shooting ability. Singleton, faster and bigger with some ability to play PF and defend guys in the low post or cover guys on the perimeter but much lesser rebounder and worse motor. I think the upside with Singleton is slightly higher because of his physical tools. Vesely is a different animal. He's a seven footer with enough quickness to play extended stretches at the 3. His upside is a lot higher than Leonard's IMO, which is why he was picked as high as he was. He's got the pedigree to become a fantastic space and weakside help defender, really got jack of all trades potential on D. Not as good a rebounder as Kawhi though, and not as tough or strong. Still, I prefer Ves' superior athleticism and length. I regret taking Singleton over Faried. I think rebounding is a much bigger issue for this team than defensive potential. If you take Vesely at 6 and then go out and swap JaVale for Nene and gain Trevor Ariza a year later, Faried's skillset becomes far more valuable to us than Singleton's. We couldn't have known about Nene and Ariza at the time of the draft. But damned if it wouldn't have been nice to just say, "Faried has a better body, better motor, and is a more consistent player. Let's take him over Singleton and let the chips fall where they may." Klay Thompson and Bismack Biyombo are the only viable alternatives to Vesely around the range Ves was taken. But Bismack is an even worse offensive player than Vesely and he's not exactly working with a ton of power himself, plus he's slower than Ves. Klay Thompson's shooting and his excellent length for the 2 guard are his two NBA attributes and he'll carve out a decent career with them most likely. But Thompson wouldn't have much of a role on our team with Beal now, he's a pure 2 because of his lack of strength. Plus he's a little older than Vesely and doesn't have nearly as much upside. If Ves develops, he's our ticket to successfully defending the pick and roll and defending the stretch four. You'll get diced apart by teams with those players unless you've got a big man that can cover space. It's hard to find those kinds of defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 @stevemcqueen1, I agree with a lot of what you said but I just feel like one of my problems with Ernie (and I'm not nearly as down on Ernie as most) is that he always seems to overvalue European potential over proven talent. I was somewhat surprised we didn't trade the Beal pick for a Euro stash. But when it happened with the second rounder, I was like "aah, there's our Euro". Potential is great, but as you mention - until we show that we have the coaching staff in place to develop potential into something, it doesn't mean didly. I can say that I'm impressed with what Wittman's done with Seraphin, but that's not saying much just yet and we'll see how much progress he makes this year. And if Vesely can learn to control himself better this year we may see some marked improvement, but like I said I'm not gonna hold my breath on the Wizards developing a player. If this were the Nationals and we had a record of Zimmerman, Strausberg, Harper, Storen, etc, then I wouldn't mind doing like the Nats do and drafting an injured pitcher who needs Tommy Johns surgery but has the potential to be a starter once it heals or a third baseman with an injured shoulder, because we've shown we know what we're doing in that realm. As for the Wizards, I'm still wait and see. Maybe Wittman can be like Tom Coughlin and get this team to buy into what he's selling and turn us around. But I'm tired of getting my hopes up before the season and then realizing that we are what we are. So I'll wait and see. Hopefully we can do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/10/20/3532496/wizards-vs-bucks-final-score-washingtons-reserves-hold-off-bucks Here are some more notes on the game. This contest wasn't televised, so take these with a grain of salt. THE GOOD Trevor Booker: How about THAT performance from Cook Book. He had 18 points by halftime and ended up with 22 in 22 minutes. It sounded like he hit a bunch on mid-range jumpers too, which is obviously huge for his development. If Nene continues to be sidelined by injury, Booker should start, and I think he'll seize that opportunity. THE BAD Jan Vesely: He did hit two clutch free throws at the end, but otherwise, it sounded like the same old Vesely. He committed five fouls in 19 minutes, and that simply can't happen anymore. much more in the link Vesely's fouling problem almost negates any positives he brings to the defensive end. Edited October 21, 2012 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/10/20/3532496/wizards-vs-bucks-final-score-washingtons-reserves-hold-off-bucksmuch more in the link Vesely's fouling problem almost negates any positives he brings to the defensive end. At least Yawn Ves is trying. Ariza needs to be asked to watch the games at home until he's ready to give some effort or we need a body because of injury. Culture change isn't going to stick with the latest Rishard Lewis moping around like an *******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Is Ariza injured? At least Crawford and Price played well. I think Booker is due for a good year too. Jan's fouling is a problem that comes up when he plays strong bigs who are good at establishing position for themselves. Jan is best as the help defender and defending in space, outside the paint. When he's on the floor, we really need someone like Nene in at the 5 to play the low post players. The reason I think we'll be a lot better this year than the past two is the strength of the front court. Nene and Okafor would be a good starting tandem for most teams and Booker and Seraphin are quality reserves. Jan and Singleton bring interesting skill sets to the table. All in all, I think you've got six players to work with there, which is more than the team is If the front court does their work and leads the team, the play of the guards will improve too. And by the time Wall gets back and Beal is starting, we'll have pretty good starting guards. The team won't be spectacular, lacking a true star. But it will win games. And then if Wall finally makes the leap, they could actually be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Wizards vs. Miami on CSN at 8:30 tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Wizards vs. Miami on CSN at 8:30 tonight why are they playing in kc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) why are they playing in kc? I have no idea. ---------- Post added October-24th-2012 at 09:23 PM ---------- Crawford is a damn good passer, its a shame he chooses not use that skill more often. I would start Martell Webster at SF to open the season. Edited October 25, 2012 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I have no idea.---------- Post added October-24th-2012 at 09:23 PM ---------- Crawford is a damn good passer, its a shame he chooses not use that skill more often. I would start Martell Webster at SF to open the season. I personally wish Crawford would stop shooting so much and try to be more balanced. He could be a serviceable guy off the bench. I can't see the game up here but I hear Webster is cooking. Can he shoot or is he a scorer? I'm not too familiar with his style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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