ES Soccer Thread

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I love yer FrF but that’s utter bolloccks. Under any pre-VAR circumstance that’s not an issue. At all. No honest pro is appealing for that straight faced. The less said on Greizmann’s dive the better too. 

 

Hail.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[Bozo the kKklown]

You can’t have your arms in an unnatural position in relation to the ball

 

Perisic did. Penalty.

 

The rules were re-interpreted in 2016

http://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-fifa/story/2868585/penalty-goals-could-be-introduced-as-part-of-revision-of-handball-law

 

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/laws-of-the-game-2018-19.pdf

page 102

Edited July 15, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin

[FrFan]

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by FrFan

[skinny21]

I thought the handball was called correctly, but... I agree with GHH that it wouldn’t (and shouldn’t) have been a PK pre VAR.  

Thought Perisic was pretty subtle with where he put his hand (up for momentum for a possible header, then back down as he lifts his leg to try to deflect it).  Arm wasn’t extended, elbow tucked a bit, but with VAR it looked too close to being intentional.  He also didn’t try to move his hand out of the way and my hunch there is that he thought it would look incidental enough.  

 

Thought Croatia looked a bit better much of the time, but both sides did a lot of good.  Good match, IMO, with a lot of fun narratives/firsts/exciting plays.  

 

As for the WC in general, lot of great moments - stoppage goals, upsets, PK shootouts.  I was satisfied.  

Edited July 15, 2018 by skinny21

[FrFan]

 

[FrFan]

Fox Sports Argentina - Inter in advanced talk with Angel Di Maria

[FrFan]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Possession is overrated. Skill in generating scoring chances is more important.

 

Deschamps press conference

 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by FrFan

[Elessar78]

3 hours ago, FrFan said:

Sorry he knows the rule in the box, arms shall not be extended, so even if the ball hits you there is no PK whatsoever. He extended his arms he took the risk he paid for it. By the way Perisic goal was deflected by Varane.

Looked to me he moved his hand into the path of the ball.

Basically some people acknowledge that the rule was broken but that it shouldn’t be punished. 

 

Its bad bad enough that FIFA practices selective enforcement of their laws but fans also advocating selective enforcement??

[JSSkinz]

This was a cup where possession didn't matter because the "possessors" lacked a final touch.

[thebluefood]

It's been said elsewhere: France won the tournament but Croatia won my heart. Congrats to the World's Champion and the runner up.

[Elessar78]

I loved this World Cup. Most memorable one for me in my life time. I think VAR is a positive step that needs refinement. Biggest disappointment was not seeing a Belgium-Brazil final. But their QF match was good too. England were fun to (slightly) cheer for because of the penalty monkey vs Colombia. They’re really ****e though. They may be young but don’t see much of a future for them-unlike France.

 

 

 

 

[SkinssRvA]

8 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Mate. Slow it right down you’ll give anything. At normal game speed, how he should be viewing it back, there’s no way he can get his hand out the way and there’s no way that’s a penalty on anything other than a false, slowed down perception. It’s supposed to ‘clear and obvious’ to even go to a VAR look. You’re not a novice footie fan. You know there was nottin clear and obvious about that .

 

Hail.

Could not agree more. It may have even hit matuidi in which case there’s no time to react. Even if it didn’t, there’s not time given the physical nature of what’s going on to react. Everything about his movement was natural and I’m not giving a PK for that. I’m just not. 

 

In other news, looking forward to the regulars in this thread coming back and talking some PL!!  Sarriball is coming!!!!!

[AsburySkinsFan]

For everyone saying this wasn't deliberate, anyone remember the PK awarded in the group stage where the player went sliding for the block and had his hand up? The ball hit his arm, he didn't have time to place his arm in the path of the ball so no deliberate act....right? LOL no

 

Everyone is interpreting deliberate to mean that they must have been able to see the ball and move their hand to the ball on purpose, rather than their arm/hand not being in a natural position when the ball hits it. As the commentator said, when you go up and let your arms move out from your body like he did you take that risk. 

Was his arm in a natural position? No

Was his arm against his body? No

Was his arm outstretched by his own effort? Yes

Did the ball hit his hand? Yes

PK...

[FrFan]

 

Thanks a lot for your support

11 hours ago, Elessar78 said:

Looked to me he moved his hand into the path of the ball.

Basically some people acknowledge that the rule was broken but that it shouldn’t be punished. 

 

Its bad bad enough that FIFA practices selective enforcement of their laws but fans also advocating selective enforcement??

This one for you !

http://cnnphilippines.com/sports/2018/07/16/France-Filipino-goalkeeper-Alhponse-Areola-World-Cup-2018.html

Edited July 16, 2018 by FrFan

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

6 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

For everyone saying this wasn't deliberate, anyone remember the PK awarded in the group stage where the player went sliding for the block and had his hand up? The ball hit his arm, he didn't have time to place his arm in the path of the ball so no deliberate act....right? LOL no

 

Everyone is interpreting deliberate to mean that they must have been able to see the ball and move their hand to the ball on purpose, rather than their arm/hand not being in a natural position when the ball hits it. As the commentator said, when you go up and let your arms move out from your body like he did you take that risk. 

Was his arm in a natural position? No

Was his arm against his body? No

Was his arm outstretched by his own effort? Yes

Did the ball hit his hand? Yes

PK...

 

Prssume, like said commentator, you’ve never played the game then mate? And I’m not meaning that as a slight. Just if you had to any decemt amateur level you’d not be describing that incident like that.

 

There was nottin’ ’unatuarl’ about his arm at all. You’re arms naturally come out when you jump for leverage. He’s tight to the French fella. No way can you react at that speed, when you’re not even seeing the ball until the last second with him blocking your view, to move your arm. You’re talking like he challenged with his arm outstretched intending to block the ball. You give that, you’re giving 20 penalty’s a game.

 

Thats where VAR falls down. (The premise of which I agree with BTW. But it still needs a LOT of work before it can ever became a staple.). ‘Clear and Obvious.’ The absolute joke of a referee had heck knows how many looks, came away, and STIlL went back for another. Nottin ‘clear and obvious’ when he’s doing that. At normal game speed, that’s nothing like a penalty. And there’s absolutely nothing ‘clear and obvious’ to warrant a look to begin with. Let alone be as undecided as he was through so many. (Which should have been at normal speed. Not slowed right down on replay. This isn’t gridiron football on an incident like that. You look at the context of the game as happened.).

 

Now, down to an absolutely disgraceful piece of officiating that completely changed the final of the WC, you’re left with all the talk after the game being about a clueless referee/ VAR, and not the players and Frances victory, 

 

Somethibg MASSIVELY wrong with that. 

 

Hail.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

12 hours ago, Elessar78 said:

.....

Its bad bad enough that FIFA practices selective enforcement of their laws but fans also advocating selective enforcement??

 

I can point you in the direction of a multitude of top ex-pros who were fuming over that, IMHO, absolute joke of a decision yesterday if that would help that it’s far from just perceived ‘fans.’

 

The mere fact it’s all the talk today with different opininions makes a mockery of what VAR was brought in for this WC ..... Clear and obvious incidents,

 

If it were that there wouldn’t be the debates going on in and out of the media today.

 

Hail.

[FrFan]

A Fans award should have been granted to the Croatians

 

 

[Elessar78]

4 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

I can point you in the direction of a multitude of top ex-pros who were fuming over that, IMHO, absolute joke of a decision yesterday if that would help that it’s far from just perceived ‘fans.’

 

The mere fact it’s all the talk today with different opininions makes a mockery of what VAR was brought in for this WC ..... Clear and obvious incidents,

 

If it were that there wouldn’t be the debates going on in and out of the media today.

 

Hail.

Meh. 

 

At this point, the game is better with VAR than without it. The Perisic handball would be debated in the opposite direction (by equal numbers of pundits/ex-pros). There are endless debates on close calls before and after. The NFL has been at it for 20 years(?) and there's still debate. 

 

Ref was in the wrong position to see that handball (:00). He was behind the action with lots of bodies screening, IIRC. I think he's got the obligation to look at it. What else is VAR for than to look at things that the ref did not see/could not see. Perisic opens his palm and swipes down at the ball (:02). And as always has been the directive, attacking team gets the benefit of the doubt.

2 hours ago, FrFan said:

A Fans award should have been granted to the Croatians

 

 

Japan's fans were great as well.

[AsburySkinsFan]

4 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Prssume, like said commentator, you’ve never played the game then mate? And I’m not meaning that as a slight. Just if you had to any decemt amateur level you’d not be describing that incident like that.

 

Well, I have played albeit a long time ago.

What's more is that my son plays and has since he was 4, he's 16 now and one of the top goalkeepers in the state, and he said it was a handball.

 

Honestly, this debate about handballs is getting to be like the debate about what constitutes a touchdown. It's all a bit ridiculous because as you watch the play it's clear, his arm is NOT at his side in the natural position, AND the ball struck his hand. Now you want to add into the officiating game mind-reading.

4 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

I can point you in the direction of a multitude of top ex-pros who were fuming over that, IMHO, absolute joke of a decision yesterday if that would help that it’s far from just perceived ‘fans.’

 

The mere fact it’s all the talk today with different opininions makes a mockery of what VAR was brought in for this WC ..... Clear and obvious incidents,

 

If it were that there wouldn’t be the debates going on in and out of the media today.

 

Hail.

They have to **** about something or else they wouldn't have a job.

It's popular to hate on VAR right now because the purists want to take the game back to the 50's. It was the exact same thing when instant replay showed up in the NFL. 

The technology is here, it is here to stay, it did a VERY good job.

[thebluefood]

So, now that the World Cup's over - how about that MLS? I'm trying to follow it more closely now that D.C. United has that new stadium and I do wanna get more engaged with soccer. 

 

I know it isn't the best by any stretch of the imagination (cue footage from the Trinidad & Tobago match) but I might as well follow the big domestic league, warts and all.

[Elessar78]

10 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Well, I have played albeit a long time ago.

What's more is that my son plays and has since he was 4, he's 16 now and one of the top goalkeepers in the state, and he said it was a handball.

 

Honestly, this debate about handballs is getting to be like the debate about what constitutes a touchdown. It's all a bit ridiculous because as you watch the play it's clear, his arm is NOT at his side in the natural position, AND the ball struck his hand. Now you want to add into the officiating game mind-reading.

They have to **** about something or else they wouldn't have a job.

It's popular to hate on VAR right now because the purists want to take the game back to the 50's. It was the exact same thing when instant replay showed up in the NFL. 

The technology is here, it is here to stay, it did a VERY good job.

Best tech is the goal line tech. NFL really should have something like that for touchdowns and first downs. If you think about it, where they reset the ball each play is pretty arbitrary. 

 

But yeah, VAR needs to be defined better. I say expand it's use to EVERYTHING. I think it was under-utilized in determining possession for corners. In a WC where 40% of goals were off set pieces, awarding a goalkick vs corner could be a huge swing esp since you have the tech to review it AND review it quickly. Dont even need the ref to run to the booth. Have the guys upstairs just look it over. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

5 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Best tech is the goal line tech. NFL really should have something like that for touchdowns and first downs. If you think about it, where they reset the ball each play is pretty arbitrary. 

 

But yeah, VAR needs to be defined better. I say expand it's use to EVERYTHING. I think it was under-utilized in determining possession for corners. In a WC where 40% of goals were off set pieces, awarding a goalkick vs corner could be a huge swing esp since you have the tech to review it AND review it quickly. Dont even need the ref to run to the booth. Have the guys upstairs just look it over. 

Agreed on the first part....the second part sounds like sarcasm but I can't tell anymore.

[Elessar78]

Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

Agreed on the first part....the second part sounds like sarcasm but I can't tell anymore.

second part is serious, why limit it if it as long as it doesn't impact flow of game? or, go NFL style—have coaches use up "challenges"

[Elessar78]

Not sure why people still complain about officiating in sports. It's not perfect, never was, never will be regardless of the tech. It happens for your team and against your team. Every. Single. Week. At any level. It's done by humans on humans who are ever so cleverly trying to game the system. These are pros with tremendous body control and awareness. De Gea reacts to a point blank shot and it's normal. But a "schlub" like Perisic /s has no clue what that ball may do? The brain is a tremendous computer, it tells our body to do things that we can't even have time to consciously think to do. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Not sure why people still complain about officiating in sports. It's not perfect, never was, never will be regardless of the tech. It happens for your team and against your team. Every. Single. Week. At any level. It's done by humans on humans who are ever so cleverly trying to game the system. These are pros with tremendous body control and awareness. De Gea reacts to a point blank shot and it's normal. But a "schlub" like Perisic /s has no clue what that ball may do? The brain is a tremendous computer, it tells our body to do things that we can't even have time to consciously think to do. 

I don't mind when officials miss calls, like you said they are human and can't see everything. What I complain about with officiating is competency. I'm all for the new tech so long as it is done without affecting the pace. As I watched this year's WC I was impressed by the use of VAR, I thought it was used well and sparingly and it resulted in a very high accuracy percentage.

For me that was all win.

I don't think you'll ever pull refs off the field if for nothing else they are there to control player aggression.