Peyton Manning and Big Moments Do Not Mix

[zoony]

At some point' date=' you are all going to accept the fact that there are no such thing as "clutch" and join me in my bliss.[/quote']

Yes, there is. I gave you some nice links to very credible research.

Which you ignored

....

[Hunter44]

God' date=' I love watching Peyton Manning fail.[/quote']

I would add, ANY Manning fail. :evilg:

[TheLongshot]

BTW, Fanhouse has an article that is along the lines of the OP.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/02/08/peyton-chokes-away-place-in-history/

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

I thought Manning played well. The pick was killer -- pretty much the only mistake he made all game and it cost him big. More than anything, I thought the Saints pulled off a great gameplan on both sides of the ball.

My opinion of Manning certainly hasn't changed. I think he's far and away the best QB in the league. He would make any team an instant playoff contender -- any team. Put him on the Browns and they start beating people. I don't think you can say that about anyone else, though Brees certainly deserves consideration. Brady... well, I love the guy but I think he was exposed a bit when Cassell went in and the team didn't struggle all that much.

But whatever. I think Peyton has five great years left easy. He's not going anyway anytime soon. He'll just come back stronger and more determined next year.

Agreed 100%. Peyton played a fine game and was forced to be perfect all game, and was nearly perfect. On the offensive side of the ball, he really didn't get that much help except from Addai who ran very well, and seemed to be the most consistent receiver for the Colts all game. Hell the Colts rarely went deep all game, and the one time they did, Reggie Wayne didn't come back to the ball, maybe that was due to the consistent blitzing G-Dub did, but you'd think a few times you'd take some deep shots to back the D off of you.

On the defensive side of the ball aside from Freeney making a great sack on 3rd down, and the great 4th down stop on the goalline, early in the game, they really didn't do much to hinder the Saints progress, they even had a couple of balls hit them right in the hands and dropped them. Brees looked like he could do whatever he wanted to out there, and the Colts played the Redskins style of defense most of the game (10 yards off every WR).

For what it's worth, I would go as far as to say that the INT was more of a heads-up play by Porter, than it was a bad play by Manning and even after that Peyton took the team right back down field and had them in scoring position if only Wayne had hung on to the ball.

The Saints were the more aggressive team, and in the end it paid off. The Colts played too passive, and I think that Caldwell pretty much figured, "We've got Peyton, let's just rely on him all game, and we'll be fine." He's a rookie coach, hopefully he learned a few things this past game, but he definitely played not to lose and we all know what that gets you.

[DeMarco Murray 29]

[doncherry]

/slow clap

(the spear being intercepted was by far the best part of this production...)

[DeMarco Murray 29]

/slow clap

(the spear being intercepted was by far the best part of this production...)

Thought it was a bit ironic that Tracy Porter was born in Louisiana, went to college in Indiana, drafted by New Orleans and beat Indianapolis for the Super Bowl.

Maybe he is some sort of prophet.

[da#1skinsfan]

I dont agree with this post at all.

Peyton had a terrific game. His receivers did not. Garcon dropped a big one. Reggie Wayne dropped a HUGE one in the end zone. Peyton forced ONE BALL all game and they made him pay, thats what you can expect from the Saints, they led the league in that activity all year. Nevermind his kicker didnt show up and the o-line really didnt have a good day at all. Peyton came to play like he always does, unfortunately for him his teammates did not.

[scruffylookin]

Yeah Manning did do his best Brett Favre imitation last night and it was disappointing to see from such a smart player but nonetheless after Tom Brady, there isn't a QB in the league I'd take over him. At least with Manning, I feel that GW probably did a great job disguising the D being played and just "beat" Peyton on that play. This is unlike dumb as a rock Favre who makes throws like that and loses games because he's just stupid and has no clue how to read a defense (or more to the point...doesn't care) and tries to overpower a defense by nothing more than arm strethen and bravado.

For me, Manning works so hard at his craft and wants to be the best he can be and because of this I have grown to like and respect Manning. Something that I did not do early in his career and back in his Tennessee days.

[Metalhead]

I dont agree with this post at all.

Peyton had a terrific game. His receivers did not. Garcon dropped a big one. Reggie Wayne dropped a HUGE one in the end zone. Peyton forced ONE BALL all game and they made him pay, thats what you can expect from the Saints, they led the league in that activity all year. Nevermind his kicker didnt show up and the o-line really didnt have a good day at all. Peyton came to play like he always does, unfortunately for him his teammates did not.

I agree. Garcon's drop in the second quarter was HUGE. That play changed the entire game. Peyton drove at will and did whatever he wanted against the Saints D. On the interception, the Saints' defensive back made a great individual play on a pinpoint pass...can't fault Peyton there but people will see what they want to see.

[DeMarco Murray 29]

I agree. Garcon's drop in the second quarter was HUGE. That play changed the entire game. Peyton drove at will and did whatever he wanted against the Saints D. On the interception, the Saints' defensive back made a great individual play on a pinpoint pass...can't fault Peyton there but people will see what they want to see.

If I am not mistaken on that route that was picked, Wayne came out of his break very gingerly allowing Porter to step in front and grab the pick.

[Metalhead]

If I am not mistaken on that route that was picked, Wayne came out of his break very gingerly allowing Porter to step in front and grab the pick.

Yeah it did look like Wayne let off a bit. It was still up to the DB to make the read and move, which he did and did it perfectly.

[Rodriggo]

Guy has a Super Bowl trophy.

He is the Colts. Granted he did make the killer mistake in that game but still, he is that team.

Tom Brady takes that team to 9-7, so does Brees. Joseph Addai?, Pierre Garcon?, Austin Collie? Come on man, he lost it but he's still the best AND he already won one.

[darklight1216]

Well I sure would not mind having a player that chokes in big moments come and win a Superbowl for my team. But that is just me..........

But that's the thing: at the moment Peyton hasn't won any more SBs than Dilfer or Johnson.

I'd rather have Brady even if no one is undeservedly calling him the GOAT.

dude brady won all 3 superbowls before he was in his prime. His game winners were dumpoffs for a FG attempt not much impressive.

I would say peyton is a better playoff qb then tom brady is. Brady hasnt done crap since his first 4 years. His last 4 years his playoff stats are pretty damn average or bad.

Your those guys who just looks at rings and hops in their bandwagon. Rings is a team sport not one player.

Like the MVP award, I think that if the Colts won the SB by a field goal, Manning would have solidified his place as the greatest qb ever in many people's minds.

Lol, better postseason qb than Brady; are you kidding? Tom Brady has won more postseason games (14-9) and lost only half as many (4-8). Not to mention that whole 3 SB rings thing...

Peyton's postseason stats aren't particularly impressive either. He only threw 3 tds passes in the year that he won the SB, and he threw more than twice as many picks (7). The Colts also average an embarrassing 13.4 ppg in their playoff losses. Despite the lackluster performance of their qb, the Colts defense is generally blamed for their defeats; while the Patriots qb is often discredited for their wins.

Also, its's kind of unfair to say that Tom Brady hasn't done anything four years. He did lead his team to an 18-1 record in the year of his only SB loss, which is more than Peyton did in the year of his SB loss.

[Meatheadskinsfan]

Give me a break, you didn't grow up watching Joe Montana, Elway or Marino, you're damn near too young to have even seen Brady operate.

Look, it's not a fact.

Manning isn't even the best QB in the league RIGHT NOW. He just got beat by the best QB in the league. Brees has thrown for a thousand more yards since being with the Saints, is a fraction of a QB rating point away from Manning, has won a SB against a good (though historically overrated) team as opposed to the Bears, actually played well in the SB, won SB MVP (and deserved it) and he broke the completion percentage all-time record this year. he also came THIS close to setting the all-time yardage record.

Brees isn't some super physical talent either, he's known for being just as cerebral in his approach to the game and he's actually the more accurate passer from a placement standpoint. He's a great leader, probably even a better leader than Manning is, though not as high profile, because you'll never hear him badmouth his offensive line like Manning has in past playoff losses. I mean the dude leads their hype circle.

So, Manning has a longer tenure but Manning isn't the best ever, not even close.

You have an assertion because you came of age during Manning's reign and don't even remember that it was Brady's knee injury that even put Manning there recently.

Do you know why that was? Because Manning was regarded as the inferior postseason QB, because of HIS play, not just some team failure. And it came through again. Manning isn't the best ever, he's not even the best of his generation. And I certainly don't want you people to be putting him up there with Montana.

And even Steve Young at least had the excuse of losing to an excellent, excellent Cowboys team (and he did win a SB too.)

I have watched Brady, and as a Michigan fan, I've watched Brady probably about as much as you have. In fact I remember watching him shred Alabama's defense for what may still be a BCS game record in the 2000 orange bowl.

I also remember watching some of Marino and Elway's last games, and I've watched enough NFL films to understand how great they and Joe Montana were. Sure I wasn't aware of how Marino or Elway attacked to cover 2, and I didn't get to see Montana point out John Candy then drive his team the length of the field to win the Superbowl. I'm not trying to detract from what any of those guys did. Not at all. But to say that I can't say that Manning is the best ever because I didn't see them play, means that you can't say that Montana, or Elway, or Marino are the best ever, because you didn't see Johnny Unitas or Otto Graham play.

Brady is great, Brees is great, but if you're going to look at stats and say "he's better" or "he's not as good" then you have to look at the whole picture. the Colts had the worst running game in the league this year. The Saints were 7th. That's going to help the passing game. Sure you can say that the Saints were so good at running the ball because they had such a good passing game that everybody backed of, making it easier to run the ball, but the Colts had just as good a passing game.

I'm not denying that Brees is a great player, and I'm not denying that his team played the better game and deserved to win. I am saying that Peyton is better, and I'm saying that Peyton is a winner, and a leader. He's just as good a leader as Brees. You know the last time the colts lost 3 games in a row? 2002.

I think it's ridiculous to say that Brees is better because he threw for more yards and his team won last night. I think he's great, but I also think it's important to look at the body of work, and his body of work isn't nearly as impressive as Peyton's. Dude was looking like a mediocre at best NFL QB for his first few years in the league, and yeah Peyton threw a lot of picks his first season (28), but he also threw a lot of touchdowns (26). In fact that was the fewest touchdowns he's ever thrown in a season.

Both great players, but I think Manning is a little better. I think he's the greatest of all time, and I think that's a fact.

[redskins55]

I tell ya..

Some Redskins fans are just plain ignorant when it comes to QB play. Manning is the best in the game but made a costly mistake and threw without looking first. It's the same reason Campbell hesitates sometimes when throwing throwing a quick slant because if the receiver doesn't fight for position its a sure pick 6! So you win some you lose some but in the end you cant just hang stuff like that on QBs. Our receivers cant get open and on that SB play Reggie Wayne ran a poor route.

[da#1skinsfan]

I have watched Brady, and as a Michigan fan, I've watched Brady probably about as much as you have. In fact I remember watching him shred Alabama's defense for what may still be a BCS game record in the 2000 orange bowl.

I also remember watching some of Marino and Elway's last games, and I've watched enough NFL films to understand how great they and Joe Montana were. Sure I wasn't aware of how Marino or Elway attacked to cover 2, and I didn't get to see Montana point out John Candy then drive his team the length of the field to win the Superbowl. I'm not trying to detract from what any of those guys did. Not at all. But to say that I can't say that Manning is the best ever because I didn't see them play, means that you can't say that Montana, or Elway, or Marino are the best ever, because you didn't see Johnny Unitas or Otto Graham play.

Brady is great, Brees is great, but if you're going to look at stats and say "he's better" or "he's not as good" then you have to look at the whole picture. the Colts had the worst running game in the league this year. The Saints were 7th. That's going to help the passing game. Sure you can say that the Saints were so good at running the ball because they had such a good passing game that everybody backed of, making it easier to run the ball, but the Colts had just as good a passing game.

I'm not denying that Brees is a great player, and I'm not denying that his team played the better game and deserved to win. I am saying that Peyton is better, and I'm saying that Peyton is a winner, and a leader. He's just as good a leader as Brees. You know the last time the colts lost 3 games in a row? 2002.

I think it's ridiculous to say that Brees is better because he threw for more yards and his team won last night. I think he's great, but I also think it's important to look at the body of work, and his body of work isn't nearly as impressive as Peyton's. Dude was looking like a mediocre at best NFL QB for his first few years in the league, and yeah Peyton threw a lot of picks his first season (28), but he also threw a lot of touchdowns (26). In fact that was the fewest touchdowns he's ever thrown in a season.

Both great players, but I think Manning is a little better. I think he's the greatest of all time, and I think that's a fact.

Anybody who has watched Peyton play, game in, game out, would probably agree. The guy is a robot. The way he throws perfect in the pocket, perfect on the run, the way he reads a defense, the way he avoids sacks...his ability to make each and every person on that field BETTER because of his knowledge and ability to execute on that knowledge is insane.

Im in agreement...Brees is a heck of a QB, but no one plays the game like Peyton.

[adam@section118]

But that's the thing: at the moment Peyton hasn't won any more SBs than Dilfer or Johnson.

I'd rather have Brady even if no one is undeservedly calling him the GOAT.

Like the MVP award, I think that if the Colts won the SB by a field goal, Manning would have solidified his place as the greatest qb ever in many people's minds.

Lol, better postseason qb than Brady; are you kidding? Tom Brady has won more postseason games (14-9) and lost only half as many (4-8). Not to mention that whole 3 SB rings thing...

Peyton's postseason stats aren't particularly impressive either. He only threw 3 tds passes in the year that he won the SB, and he threw more than twice as many picks (7). The Colts also average an embarrassing 13.4 ppg in their playoff losses. Despite the lackluster performance of their qb, the Colts defense is generally blamed for their defeats; while the Patriots qb is often discredited for their wins.

Also, its's kind of unfair to say that Tom Brady hasn't done anything four years. He did lead his team to an 18-1 record in the year of his only SB loss, which is more than Peyton did in the year of his SB loss.

I would glady allow Tom Brady to come and win 3 SB's for my team as well.

I personally like Manning more then Brady (personal preference) but I will gladly take either of them on my team.

[adam@section118]

I tell ya..

Some Redskins fans are just plain ignorant when it comes to QB play. Manning is the best in the game but made a costly mistake and threw without looking first. It's the same reason Campbell hesitates sometimes when throwing throwing a quick slant because if the receiver doesn't fight for position its a sure pick 6! So you win some you lose some but in the end you cant just hang stuff like that on QBs. Our receivers cant get open and on that SB play Reggie Wayne ran a poor route.

I agree.

That loss is on the Colts receivers just as much, if not more, then it is on Manning.

[Westbrook36]

Seeing a 22 year old kid say definitively that Peyton Manning is surely the greatest QB of all time is one of the funniest things I've read on the internet in weeks.

Guy is .500 in the playoffs. The end.

I'd take him on my team even though he is the most annoying football player in the history of the world to watch with all the gyrations and fake calls and robotic play. Maybe it's these things that makes it so fun to watch him fail. You almost sense that when he loses (which is often in big games) the apologists start concocting reasons why Peyton isn't as great as the media would like you to think.

[TheLongshot]

I agree.

That loss is on the Colts receivers just as much, if not more, then it is on Manning.

But... But... The team record is on the QB!

Maybe we can finally get away from "everything is on the QB" when it comes to wins and losses. It is a team game, guys, and it is up to everyone to do their part.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'd take him on my team even though he is the most annoying football player in the history of the world to watch with all the gyrations and fake calls and robotic play. Maybe it's these things that makes it so fun to watch him fail. You almost sense that when he loses (which is often in big games) the apologists start concocting reasons why Peyton isn't as great as the media would like you to think.

It's possible that he thinks too much for these big moments.

I'm partly convinced that during his gamewinning drive last year, Roethlisberger just told Santonio Holmes to "get open."

Manning reminds me an awful lot of Greg Maddux. On a humid night during August when everyone else is just trying to get the game over with, Maddux was deadly. Because he never let up and never stopped hitting the corners.

In the playoffs, when his opponents were very good and at their most focussed, he often became a guy who didn't top 90.

Manning's biggest "chokes" always came against really good teams who had coaches who were really creative. I don't think you can study Williams, Belichik, and Lebeau and figure them out. (At Tennessee, he was running Phil Fulmer's 1950s offense in games against Steve Spurrier's 21st Century stuff).

I don't think he is a choker. I just think that too much has to be perfect for him to succeed. And in "big games" where great coaches are putting their talent in new positions, he sometimes has issues.

Williams had two weeks to prepare. It looked like the Saints had four different defensive game plans. Every time Manning started to figure one out, they put in a new one.

[darklight1216]

I would glady allow Tom Brady to come and win 3 SB's for my team as well.

I personally like Manning more then Brady (personal preference) but I will gladly take either of them on my team.

Fair enough.

I'm still sticking with 3SBs. I don't care what anyone thinks of my qb, I'll take the championships.

But... But... The team record is on the QB!

Maybe we can finally get away from "everything is on the QB" when it comes to wins and losses. It is a team game, guys, and it is up to everyone to do their part.

No, sorry, that's not going to happen. Quarterbacks are the most scrutinized members of a team. They get too much credit for the wins and shoulder more than their share of blame in the losses.

That's just how it is, and with more and more rules being passed to favor the offenses, it isn't going to change any time soon.

[Meatheadskinsfan]

Seeing a 22 year old kid say definitively that Peyton Manning is surely the greatest QB of all time is one of the funniest things I've read on the internet in weeks.

Guy is .500 in the playoffs. The end.

I'd take him on my team even though he is the most annoying football player in the history of the world to watch with all the gyrations and fake calls and robotic play. Maybe it's these things that makes it so fun to watch him fail. You almost sense that when he loses (which is often in big games) the apologists start concocting reasons why Peyton isn't as great as the media would like you to think.

Those gyrations might be irritating, but according to Shaun Ellis, in the AFC championship game he was calling out exactly what the jets were doing on defense just about every play in the second half. They'd have safeties up in the box to disguise their coverage and manning would call it out anyway.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Drew Brees and the starters didn't play the final game which was against Carolina.

Yes, I acknowledged this in the very post you quoted :doh:

The Saints lost their final three games and I only credited Brees with starting two of them.

At some point' date=' you are all going to accept the fact that there are no such thing as "clutch" and join me in my bliss.[/quote']

Not a big fan of sports psychology are you?

Thought it was a bit ironic that Tracy Porter was born in Louisiana, went to college in Indiana, drafted by New Orleans and beat Indianapolis for the Super Bowl.

Maybe he is some sort of prophet.

Jabari Greer is the messiah and Tracy Porter is his disciple. All has been foretold by Hershey Pork.