Peyton Manning and Big Moments Do Not Mix

[Perky72]

He should be considered GOAT by the time he retires but yeah, I guess his playoff performance puts a stop on declaring him that right now. That said he played a good game in the SB, a couple catches by Garcon and they could've won for one example. The pick was bad but it's not like he lost the game all by himself. It was a team loss.

My current pick for GOAT is Steve Young, best all-around QB by far.

[darklight1216]

Mcpimpin, you will probably be able to appreciate this.

14.0

This is one number that, all by itself, refutes the notion of Manning as the G-O-A-T.

It’s the pathetic number of points the Colts have averaged in their nine Manning Era playoff losses. That’s bad, real bad, especially when you consider that the Colts routinely head to the playoffs with an elite regular-season offense.

Manning apologists can and will blame the defense for Indy’s playoff woes. Heck, 48 hours after the Super Bowl, Manning cultist Colin Cowherd was on his radio show already blaming the defense for Manning’s playoff woes.

But the 14.0 PPG figure says it all pretty clearly: the Colts lose playoff games because their quarterback and their offense go in the tank each and every postseason.

Super Bowl XLIV was a classic example. The Colts averaged a very good 26.1 PPG in 2009; they were up against one of the worst defenses in the league, a Saints unit that had surrendered 21.3 PPG (20th in the NFL).

Yet when push came to shove in the biggest game of the year, Manning and the habitually underachieving Indy offense produced just 17 points, including a meager seven points over the final three quarters.

Once again, Manning’s performances fell drastically when the games counted most.

19

That’s the number of interceptions Manning has thrown in 18 playoff games, including the back-breaking pick that was returned for a touchdown by Saints cornerback Tracy Porter in Super Bowl XLIV.

We’ve discussed the importance of playoff picks here and elsewhere over the past couple years. Quarterbacks who throw picks lose games. The math could not be simpler.

INTs=losses

And Manning throws picks in the playoffs, better than one per game.

Drew Brees, No. 2 all time in postseason passer rating, has thrown just two picks in six playoff games and 225 pass attempts (0.89 percent). That’s the lowest playoff INT rate in history.

Bart Starr, the greatest playoff quarterback in history, threw just three picks in 10 playoff games and 213 pass attempts (1.41 percent). That was the lowest playoff INT rate in history for four decades, until Brees broke the mark this year.

Manning, not even in the discussion of all-time postseason passer rating leaders, has thrown 19 picks in 18 playoff games and 692 attempts (2.75 percent). It’s actually fairly consistent with his INT rate in the regular season: He’s thrown 181 picks in 192 games and 6,531 attempts (2.77 percent).

But, once again, you’d expect the G-O-A-T to improve the playoffs. Once again, Manning does not improve in the playoffs.

[Ghost of]

Good work on those stats, darklight. It clearly shows Manning and the offense that he leads is what really comes up short against other teams in the playoffs, not the defense (at least not consistently.)

[doncherry]

He should be considered GOAT by the time he retires but yeah, I guess his playoff performance puts a stop on declaring him that right now. That said he played a good game in the SB, a couple catches by Garcon and they could've won for one example. The pick was bad but it's not like he lost the game all by himself. It was a team loss.

My current pick for GOAT is Steve Young, best all-around QB by far.

it's interesting that you bring up Steve Young in this thread, since he was choking in the playoffs way before Peyton Manning.

[Hitman21ST]

He should be considered GOAT by the time he retires but yeah, I guess his playoff performance puts a stop on declaring him that right now. That said he played a good game in the SB, a couple catches by Garcon and they could've won for one example. The pick was bad but it's not like he lost the game all by himself. It was a team loss.

My current pick for GOAT is Steve Young, best all-around QB by far.

Why Steve Young over Joe Montana? Not trying to use rings as an argument, because that's not a legit argument, but Young has one as a starter compared to Joe's three, with essentially the same team. I guess when comparing those two, it could be a legit argument.

[Perky72]

Why Steve Young over Joe Montana? Not trying to use rings as an argument, because that's not a legit argument, but Young has one as a starter compared to Joe's three, with essentially the same team. I guess when comparing those two, it could be a legit argument.

Mostly mobility and rushing for 4200 yards and 40+ TDs. They're very close in terms of passing skill, so that puts Young ahead as best all-around, imo.

I don't give as much importance on playoff performance as the average guy though. I ask myself--if I had the top pick for QB position in an all-time draft for a new team, who do I pick?

[boofMcboof]

Ouch. Lol, I'm not even that hard on him.

Well he has been able to outshoot the offensive juggernaut in Baltimore for the last 8 meetings. Baltimore is outdoors and sometimes cold. Does that count? Otherwise, not so many. He plays indoors, what do you expect?

If you re-watch the game, in the second half they show Manning lecturing the Colts OL on the sideline. All the lineman look like they want to tear his head off. That's the kind of respect and response his teammates have for Manning and his leadership. It's not the fact that he was trying to correct their mistakes but how he goes about it. This wasn't the first time either.

[darklight1216]

If you re-watch the game, in the second half they show Manning lecturing the Colts OL on the sideline. All the lineman look like they want to tear his head off. That's the kind of respect and response his teammates have for Manning and his leadership. It's not the fact that he was trying to correct their mistakes but how he goes about it. This wasn't the first time either.

Yeah I know it isn't the first time. Did you see the Manning goes insane video?

Deion Sanders criticized his demeanor during the SB too.

I'm starting to hear more and more people question whether he's really as good of a leader as the pundits would like for us to believe. I know that fans will talk about anything, but it's something to consider...

[adamyesme1111]

Manning will have won at least 3 superbowls by the end of his career. You can say he won't because you might have somthing against him or think someone else is better then him but he will have plenty of chances to get to the superbowl again and he won't let the opportunity for a superbowl get away again.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Manning will have won at least 3 superbowls by the end of his career. You can say he won't because you might have somthing against him or think someone else is better then him but he will have plenty of chances to get to the superbowl again and he won't let the opportunity for a superbowl get away again.

I'm not sure how we could say that so confidently at his point in his career. The Chargers and Steelers have strong teams that we know can compete. On top of it, the Jets and Ravens have strong teams that, as their QBs emerge, can certainly compete.

At the same time, the Colts Oline is falling apart and they still havent found a real running back. The superbowl isn't easy my friend.

[chipwhich]

And Manning throws picks in the playoffs

And Flacco has 1 TD and 6 picks in 5 playoff games.

Soooooooooo.....

Statistics don't tell much of a story. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The Patriots and Steelers Super Bowl teams fielded were much better than the Colts.

AND what were the Colts prior to Manning.

You can roll out meaningless statistics all day long.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

And Flacco has 1 TD and 6 picks in 5 playoff games.

Soooooooooo.....

Statistics don't tell much of a story. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The Patriots and Steelers Super Bowl teams fielded were much better than the Colts.

AND what were the Colts prior to Manning.

You can roll out meaningless statistics all day long.

But no one is crowning Flacco as the greatest of all time. This thread is about Manning's ability to be clutch. Saying that "a 2nd year QB is equally bad" is not high praise.

[chipwhich]

But no one is crowning Flacco as the greatest of all time. This thread is about Manning's ability to be clutch. Saying that "a 2nd year QB is equally bad" is not high praise.

Yeah but Peyton didn't take over a good team. He took over a bad team. And all he has done is win with one of the worst run franchises in recent history.

So if you are going to toss out statistics, then give credit where credit is due.

Ben R had a lot more to work with than Peyton.

Heck the ravens won the super bowl with a game manager.

Winning the big one is tough.

If you wanted to pick the GOAT, I would at least like to talk about the team before I laid it all on the QB. There are a LOT of great QB's to never win a super bowl who weren't as lucky to have teams like Ben R, Steve Young, Joe Montana.

Heck there are a few QB's that won who never would have won had they been on a bad team.

How many super bowls would Peyton have won were he a Pitt Steeler instead of Ben? A Patriot instead of Brady? Who knows.

I wouldn't call Ben R the GOAT given his TEAM. Would you take him in Indy over Peyton?

Statistics are meaningless.

[darklight1216]

And Flacco has 1 TD and 6 picks in 5 playoff games.

Soooooooooo.....

Statistics don't tell much of a story. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The Patriots and Steelers Super Bowl teams fielded were much better than the Colts.

AND what were the Colts prior to Manning.

You can roll out meaningless statistics all day long.

Dude, you need to give this whole stalker thing a rest.

No one is or ever will start talking about naming Joe Flacco the GOAT, so that is irrelevant.

Also, the Colts are not the same team that they were before Manning came around. It's been over a decade; that excuse does not apply anymore.

[Big Blue Joe]

The Patriots and Steelers Super Bowl teams fielded were much better than the Colts.

What are you basing this opinion on? The Colts are an extremely talented team.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Yeah but Peyton didn't take over a good team. He took over a bad team. And all he has done is win with one of the worst run franchises in recent history.

So if you are going to toss out statistics, then give credit where credit is due.

Ben R had a lot more to work with than Peyton.

Heck the ravens won the super bowl with a game manager.

Winning the big one is tough.

If you wanted to pick the GOAT, I would at least like to talk about the team before I laid it all on the QB. There are a LOT of great QB's to never win a super bowl who weren't as lucky to have teams like Ben R, Steve Young, Joe Montana.

Heck there are a few QB's that won who never would have won had they been on a bad team.

How many super bowls would Peyton have won were he a Pitt Steeler instead of Ben? A Patriot instead of Brady? Who knows.

I wouldn't call Ben R the GOAT given his TEAM. Would you take him in Indy over Peyton?

Statistics are meaningless.

I get what you're saying, it certainly does matter the kind of team a QB is on. But part of that IS why no one talks about Ben and Flacco as GOATS or even potential GOATS, because it's not them, it's the team.

Manning's TRUE competition as GOAT are guys like Elway, Favre, Montana, and Marino.

We ALL agree Marino never had the team to win the SP. Montana took over a terrible team, during Walsh's first meeting with his team he told them it would be a three year plan and that they wouldn't be good before then. Does anyone even remember what the Packers were like when Don Majokowski (sp?) was QB? Elway, I have no idea about the state of the Bronco's before his arrival.

All my point is, is that you can say "Manning did SO much more with a terrible team", but that is just as comparable to the other guys in the GOAT category. You can't just say Montana had one of the best teams of all time, because when he arrived that was not the case.

[Mikeoz]

That article I read about Manning being the GOAT before the SB was a joke, and his SB performance proves it. I think people get far too worked up over his regular season record. I agree, he most certainly is exceptional in the regular season, but the playoffs is ultimately what matters.

What people need to remember about Manning and the Colts is that they play in a dome for half of the year. This is a big plus for his passing and the Colts style of O. If you compare him to someone like Brady, Brady's 18-0 season was just as if not more impressive imo. The post-season Manning stats presented by folks in this thread say it all. People like to blame the Colts defense, but they're not nearly as bad as people would make you believe. When they have Bob Sanders playing in the backfield, I personally think they're a top defense, which is a big reason they won the SB that year.

Either way, perhaps Manning could end up being the GOAT, but as of now, he's SOLIDLY behind Brady imo. People seem to be overly impressed by Manning constantly gesturing and barking at the line, for whatever reason.. I'll never forget Manning looking so terrible against KC in their SB year (3 picks that game) a couple years back. Manning certainly has a history of choking in the playoffs.

[darklight1216]

That article I read about Manning being the GOAT before the SB was a joke, and his SB performance proves it. I think people get far too worked up over his regular season record. I agree, he most certainly is exceptional in the regular season, but the playoffs is ultimately what matters.

What people need to remember about Manning and the Colts is that they play in a dome for half of the year. This is a big plus for his passing and the Colts style of O. If you compare him to someone like Brady, Brady's 18-0 season was just as if not more impressive imo. The post-season Manning stats presented by folks in this thread say it all. People like to blame the Colts defense, but they're not nearly as bad as people would make you believe. When they have Bob Sanders playing in the backfield, I personally think they're a top defense, which is a big reason they won the SB that year.

Either way, perhaps Manning could end up being the GOAT, but as of now, he's SOLIDLY behind Brady imo. People seem to be overly impressed by Manning constantly gesturing and barking at the line, for whatever reason.. I'll never forget Manning looking so terrible against KC in their SB year (3 picks that game) a couple years back. Manning certainly has a history of choking in the playoffs.

Yeah, for some reason the 14 points that the Colts average during their playoff losses are somehow the defense's fault.

[21cents]

whats up with the tom brady hype?

As part of their probe into the allegations, the NFL required the Patriots to turn over all notes and tapes relating to the taping of opponents' defensive signals; the Patriots complied with the order and the NFL reviewed and then destroyed the materials.[4] This action was criticized on February 1, 2008—two days before Super Bowl XLII -- by U.S. Senator Arlen Specter, who requested to meet with Goodell. Specter requested the meeting despite the fact that Belichick had admitted to taping signals dating back to 2000 was reported by ESPN on September 14, 2007.[5] After meeting with Goodell on February 13, 2008, Specter said that Goodell told him that Belichick had been engaged in the practice since he became head coach of the Patriots in 2000.[6]

are we going to pretend they didnt cheat and steal defensive signals all of a sudden?