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Peyton Manning and Big Moments Do Not Mix

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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Still though, he threw 3 picks to 6 ints during that postseason. The defense (they stepped up in the playoffs) is what got them that ring.

Indeed. Anyone who disputes his smallness in the big moments is delusional and misinformed (that's for you metskins.)

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Captain Wiggles

Captain Wiggles

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I was wondering when someonen would say that...

Still though, he threw 3 picks to 6 ints during that postseason. The defense (they stepped up in the playoffs) is what got them that ring.

I admit I don't know the stats. I doubt he threw even half those INT in the SB. My main point is no matter who you play the SB is still a big game. :silly:

EDIT: I see now the whole point of the thread is just to Hype up your precious Big Ten Ghost o' NM.

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Enter Apotheosis

Enter Apotheosis

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For ****'s sake. Was this thread really necessary? I don't even disagree with you that Manning's career in the postseason is extremely lacking when pitted against his regular season heroics but this just reeks of irrational hatred.

The argument for Peyton as one of the better QBs of all time has never been about championships. He's in the Fouts/Marino category of QBs, guys who are so prolific that they can't be overlooked despite not having the rings.

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darklight1216

darklight1216

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The argument for Peyton as one of the better QBs of all time has never been about championships. He's in the Fouts/Marino category of QBs, guys who are so prolific that they can't be overlooked despite not having the rings.

And yet neither of them is ever considered THE greatest ever. Why does Manning get called the GOAT when there are other qbs who also have excellent stats and more championship rings?

I've always maintained that Brady is better. Though clearly not since his knee injury.

......

To me that's like saying that Johnny U isn't a great player any more. NFL means Not For Long; greatness always ends at some point, but at the height of his career Brady was better.

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BigRedskinDaddy

BigRedskinDaddy

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For ****'s sake. Was this thread really necessary? I don't even disagree with you that Manning's career in the postseason is extremely lacking when pitted against his regular season heroics but this just reeks of irrational hatred.

The argument for Peyton as one of the better QBs of all time has never been about championships. He's in the Fouts/Marino category of QBs, guys who are so prolific that they can't be overlooked despite not having the rings.

Well spoken -- although he obviously has the one ring now and is much better situated than 3/4's of the other QB's in the league to add one or more of them to his collection before he hangs 'em up.

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Hunter_R

Hunter_R

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For ****'s sake. Was this thread really necessary? I don't even disagree with you that Manning's career in the postseason is extremely lacking when pitted against his regular season heroics but this just reeks of irrational hatred.

The argument for Peyton as one of the better QBs of all time has never been about championships. He's in the Fouts/Marino category of QBs, guys who are so prolific that they can't be overlooked despite not having the rings.

It's one thing to say Peyton was one of the best. It's something completely different to say he was the greatest of all time.

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Enter Apotheosis

Enter Apotheosis

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And yet neither of them is ever considered THE greatest ever. Why does Manning get called the GOAT when there are other qbs who also have excellent stats and more championship rings?

To me that's like saying that Johnny U isn't a great player any more. NFL means Not For Long; greatness always ends at some point, but at the height of his career Brady was better.

Marino is considered by some to be the greatest QB of all time. I strongly dislike people who feel compelled to strike down the opinions of others as incorrect in this debate because there's absolutely no standard measure for greatness. It's a completely subjective topic of discussion and different factors in the equation are weighed differently by different people.

It's one thing to say Peyton was one of the best. It's something completely different to say he was the greatest of all time.

True... but the only difference is that one categorization is harder to dispute than the other.

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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And yet neither of them is ever considered THE greatest ever. Why does Manning get called the GOAT when there are other qbs who also have excellent stats and more championship rings?

I concur. It's not about Manning not being a great QB in his own way, but that YES he is defined by his postseason foldings. And that is distinguishes him from the Unitases, Bradys and Montanas of the game.

There's nothing wrong with not being the GOAT. My issue is people who are enamored with the commercials and the gesturing at the line and the media love and the regular season stats and forget that there were some GREAT players who played this game and in times when you could touch the QB and wideouts with greater force and frequency.

I'm kind of stunned that people think there's a problem with this thread. It'll never be more relevant, esp. since Brees was his opponent.

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Bubble Screen

Bubble Screen

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AGAIN. From college onwards, he's been known far more for making the big error, the stupid mistake, or simply not even showing up than for winning games at the last minute (not counting regular season games.)

GOAT, my ass. You sports fans are way too quick to jump on a bandwagon of declaring someone the best ever. But most of the best ever don't throw the pick six that seals the game.

Big games and Manning aren't a couple. Get used to it, it's the way it's always been. If the Jets hadn't surprised the Chargers, he wouldn't have even been in the SB to begin with. :ols:

I agree. Had a guy come up to me at work claiming that Manning was the greatest QB of all time. I kinda rolled my eyes like "you can't be serious".

And let's not forget, his only SB win was with Rex Grossman as the opposing QB.

He can pile up all the stats he wants. But he will never go down as the GOAT.

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Eddie Cunningham

Eddie Cunningham

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Payton Manning is a great quarterback and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But even if the Colts had won tonight's game, I had a problem with people calling him the greatest quarterback of all time. I use titles to help sort out and rank great quarterbacks. Payton isn't anywhere near as good as the forgotten Otto Graham, who led his team to the equivalent of ten consecutive Super Bowl appearances. Since the Browns won the NFL championship immediately after joining the league, you could argue that the four AAFC titles were also world championships. But whether you count Graham as 3 for 6 or 7 for 10, that's still a damn good record and Payton Manning isn't even close.

I'll let somebody else make the case that Sammy Baugh, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady are also better than Manning.

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darklight1216

darklight1216

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Payton Manning is a great quarterback and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But even if the Colts had won tonight's game, I had a problem with people calling him the greatest quarterback of all time. I use titles to help sort out and rank great quarterbacks. Payton isn't anywhere near as good as the forgotten Otto Graham, who led his team to the equivalent of ten consecutive Super Bowl appearances. Since the Browns won the NFL championship immediately after joining the league, you could argue that the four AAFC titles were also world championships. But whether you count Graham as 3 for 6 or 7 for 10, that's still a damn good record and Payton Manning isn't even close.

I'll let somebody else make the case that Sammy Baugh, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady are also better than Manning.

Maybe it's just me, but I kind of feel like none of today's qbs can really measure up to the guys like Starr and Unitas. They didn't get a free down and extra yards if someone hit them too hard, and their receivers could actually be touched five yards past the line of scrimmage.

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Captain Wiggles

Captain Wiggles

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Payton Manning is a great quarterback and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But even if the Colts had won tonight's game, I had a problem with people calling him the greatest quarterback of all time. I use titles to help sort out and rank great quarterbacks. Payton isn't anywhere near as good as the forgotten Otto Graham, who led his team to the equivalent of ten consecutive Super Bowl appearances. Since the Browns won the NFL championship immediately after joining the league, you could argue that the four AAFC titles were also world championships. But whether you count Graham as 3 for 6 or 7 for 10, that's still a damn good record and Payton Manning isn't even close.

I'll let somebody else make the case that Sammy Baugh, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady are also better than Manning.

Bradshaw and Starr, Now its just getting redonkulous!:silly:

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Eddie Cunningham

Eddie Cunningham

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While we are on the subject, this has got me thinking. Sonny Jurgensen is probably the second most popular athlete in Washington history behind Walter Johnson. But I can't help wondering---is he the greatest quarterback in Redskins' history or is it the late Sammy Baugh who won more titles and brought the Redskins to more NFL championship games?

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Enter Apotheosis

Enter Apotheosis

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I concur. It's not about Manning not being a great QB in his own way, but that YES he is defined by his postseason foldings. And that is distinguishes him from the Unitases, Bradys and Montanas of the game.

The only people who define Manning solely by his postseason failures are the people who want to view him negatively.

There's nothing wrong with not being the GOAT. My issue is people who are enamored with the commercials and the gesturing at the line and the media love and the regular season stats and forget that there were some GREAT players who played this game and in times when you could touch the QB and wideouts with greater force and frequency.

I agree completely with you here, although I will point out that while regular season stats aren't the be-all, end-all they still have an important place in the debate.

I'm kind of stunned that people think there's a problem with this thread. It'll never be more relevant, esp. since Brees was his opponent.

That's only if you assume that Peyton won't choke again, which is somewhat incongruous with everything else you've said. :drooley:

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Commander Chaaarmnder

Commander Chaaarmnder

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I'd still take Peyton Manning over any other quarterback in the game today. And I could count on one hand without using the thumb all the quarterbacks in history I'd take over him. Pick six or no.

thank you, took the words out of my mouth.

good thread though.

the colts fell apart 2nd half, plain and simple. especially since the onside kick to open it up, which i believe was the turning point in the game.

love peyton manning. go colts.

congrats saints.

hail to the redskins.

love. chaaarmndr

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dsciambi

dsciambi

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While we are on the subject, this has got me thinking. Sonny Jurgensen is probably the second most popular athlete in Washington history behind Walter Johnson. But I can't help wondering---is he the greatest quarterback in Redskins' history or is it the late Sammy Baugh who won more titles and brought the Redskins to more NFL championship games?

Seriously? Baugh by a mile.

Wow you a fellow Crimson Tide fan? Alot of hate for a guy who just lost the Super Bowl. :evilg: Also their is one GOAT. He has a whole state named after him.:silly:

Tebowisota?

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21cents

21cents

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Manning is destined to come up short to alums of a team that's not even a rival of Tennessee's.

No Heisman. DENIED due to Peyton's inability to deliver in a big game vs. Florida (as much as it was due to Woodson's huge plays on a national title team.)

One lame SB against a terribly weak squad, mostly due to Reche Caldwell's drops two weeks prior.

Brady, three rings while Manning is still hoping to deliver a clutch performance when it matters most. Meanwhile Brady has, what, THREE game-winning/sealing drives in three SBs? And it was his D that gave up the TD to the Giants in 2007.

Manning has made his name off of big regular seasons but still doesn't get held to the fire for his annual postseason collapses when it counts. I guess he's progressing, now he's making the big error in the SB rather than a divisional game vs. an inferior opponent.

dude brady won all 3 superbowls before he was in his prime. His game winners were dumpoffs for a FG attempt not much impressive.

I would say peyton is a better playoff qb then tom brady is. Brady hasnt done crap since his first 4 years. His last 4 years his playoff stats are pretty damn average or bad.

Your those guys who just looks at rings and hops in their bandwagon. Rings is a team sport not one player.

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