Is this the worst DC Sports have been?

[Kosher Ham]

They really need to be the Bullets again, (trying very hard not to make an Arenas joke haha).

It would be easy to go to a red and white color scheme and we could maintain an identity instead of going with something completely different again.

I only call them the Wizards out of respect for the Wizards fans. They will always be the Bullets to me. However, they will never change the name back especially after this latest incident.

[Dan T.]

It's interesting that the original Baltimore Bullets were named after a shoe, the Bata Bullets athletic shoes, which were made in nearby Harford County, and not ammo.

[hockeysc23]

Put it on an equal playing field. The Redskins injuries may have been the worst in all of football this season. I can't say that they would not have won 10+ games if healthy.

Winning does and certainly there would be bandwagon Caps fans and it would be the hot ticket. But if the Redskins were in the playoffs right now the Caps would take a back seat.

Everyone loves a winner, but you have to remember that DC is a transplant city. The Wiz games that sell out are against the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs, etc., nobody cares if they are playing the Nets, or Bobcats. All the Redskins games sell out.

Then you also need to put it on a level playing field. Skins have been using their past success 3 trophies to spur their sellouts. Also selling out 8 games a year is a lot easier then selling out 41 hockey games or what 58 basketball games?

Caps are also on record for 30 something sellouts this year.

I have no doubt if Skins were in playoffs Caps would take a back seat during their regular season. That is not the question. But Caps can easily become the #1 team if they win some championships. The key being they need to be dominate when it matters.

Skins can only keep coasting on the next big FA name, head coach or past super bowl trophies. Fans my age and younger have never seen the Skins be dominate. We know them as a team that won in 91-92, and Danny boy keeps ruining things.

I am a fan of both but if the Caps are dominate in my generation with the #1 athlete in all of the NHL they will have their chance to be top dog if only for a little bit. Past success only works for so long, I think the Skins are running out.

[Sticksboi05]

I'm not taking anything away from the Caps, but DC has never been a big hockey town. It seems like the Caps was more like a cult following. But now they are the big ticket in DC. Lots of Redskin players have been seen at Caps games recently. If the Skins, Nats, and Wiz don't get things turned around, DC could very well be a hockey town.

The Cap Centre was one of the biggest home ice advantages in the late 70's and 80's. It's never been a cult it's just now, they're creating an even bigger fan base because the rest of the city's teams blow.

[Old Bay]

It's interesting that the original Baltimore Bullets were named after a shoe, the Bata Bullets athletic shoes, which were made in nearby Harford County, and not ammo.

Origins mean nothing to some people. Twist it around to give it a meaning that they think it should be as opposed to what it is. I had a conversation with a friend last week over the Redskins name that went down that path.

[Sticksboi05]

The Caps and Wizards have sucked pretty much every year since I was a toddler. We never had a baseball team.

So...any year that the Skins were down has generally been an awful DC sports year.

Yeah that's right, a team that makes the playoffs 14 times in a row with a Stanley Cup appearance sucks...:doh:

And we had a few appearances in the 2000's...sadly we blew the 3-0 lead vs. the Lightning...

[hockeysc23]

The Cap Centre was one of the biggest home ice advantages in the late 70's and 80's. It's never been a cult it's just now, they're creating an even bigger fan base because the rest of the city's teams blow.

Um 70s and 80s caps team generally blew hard. How would you know about the Cap Centre? Been there? I know I never saw a game there.

Hockey in general is a cult following. The fans are super passionate and follow even though the head commish is a moron, their are lockouts, and it is usually a 2nd tier sport anywhere in US besides Boston, Minnesota, etc.

Caps are building a bigger fanbase due to winning and having the best player in the NHL. It helps that Skins are doing worse but most hockey fans are not basketball fans and vice versa.

[Kosher Ham]

Then you also need to put it on a level playing field. Skins have been using their past success 3 trophies to spur their sellouts. Also selling out 8 games a year is a lot easier then selling out 41 hockey games or what 58 basketball games?

Caps are also on record for 30 something sellouts this year.

I have no doubt if Skins were in playoffs Caps would take a back seat during their regular season. That is not the question. But Caps can easily become the #1 team if they win some championships. The key being they need to be dominate when it matters.

Skins can only keep coasting on the next big FA name, head coach or past super bowl trophies. Fans my age and younger have never seen the Skins be dominate. We know them as a team that won in 91-92, and Danny boy keeps ruining things.

I am a fan of both but if the Caps are dominate in my generation with the #1 athlete in all of the NHL they will have their chance to be top dog if only for a little bit. Past success only works for so long, I think the Skins are running out.

It's 41 home games in the NBA also, 10 in the NFL.

And that may be true. I think there will be many bandwagon fans that start to claim the Caps that may or may not right now. Thing is you love your team whether they are winning or losing. I have endured many years of pitiful play from both the Caps, Redskins, and the Orioles. But those are still and always will be my teams.

Here is an example. I lived in Boston and the Celtics games were the easiest in town to get. The Pats win a SB and it was next to impossible to get a ticket, but they were everywhere before that, the Celts sign Garnett and it was harder than getting Pats tickets. But the Sox who had not won in over 80 years was STILL and is still the most die-hard group of fans you ever want to see. Boston loves the Red Sox. The other teams are just filler.

[Sticksboi05]

If the Skins were in the playoffs and the Wizards were winning the Caps would definitely be on the backburner.

This will always be a football town...Fed Ex still sells out no matter how crappy the Skins are. The Caps would never be able to say the same. 5 years ago the Verizon Center was a ghost town when it came to hockey.

Part of that is selling off legacy. If the Caps win a couple Stanley Cups they will have the legacy to sell out the rest of the decade.

[hockeysc23]

It's 41 home games in the NBA also, 10 in the NFL.

And that may be true. I think there will be many bandwagon fans that start to claim the Caps that may or may not right now. Thing is you love your team whether they are winning or losing. I have endured many years of pitiful play from both the Caps, Redskins, and the Orioles. But those are still and always will be my teams.

Here is an example. I lived in Boston and the Celtics games were the easiest in town to get. The Pats win a SB and it was next to impossible to get a ticket, but they were everywhere before that, the Celts sign Garnett and it was harder than getting Pats tickets. But the Sox who had not won in over 80 years was STILL and is still the most die-hard group of fans you ever want to see. Boston loves the Red Sox. The other teams are just filler.

Great points. I think DC will be a Skins town first as long as they win but I think the allure i a little different from Fenway that kept fans going back and back. Boston got close. Skins are a ways off.

I hope they become competitive. But if we don't have multiple playoff births and a legit chance in the next 5 years then it is going to be really hard for people of my generation to keep supporting the Skins. We have nothing to hang our hat on.

I think the Skins have a lot of diehard fans (as evidenced by this board alone) but a ton of the city is Skins fans when they are winning. Maybe it's just because football appeals to more people.

[Forehead]

I think the earlier part of this decade was much worse. Let's look at it like this. The Skins came off their division championship in 1999, then didn't go back to the playoffs until 2005. So let's look at 2002-2004 timeframe.

Not only did the Caps suck (I'm sorry, making the playoffs and getting beat in the 1st round by Pittsburgh, or not making it at all, starts to suck after awhile), but hockey players were making too much money and would be locked out 1 year later. Not to mention they actually missed the playoffs two of those three years.

We had no baseball team. I'll take having a crappy team over not having one at all.

Michael Jordan came to play for the Wizards, albeit older, but even he couldn't make the team better than .500. Plus the Kwame Brown debacle.

I'm sorry, but those years, 2002-2004 were far worse than we're experiencing now. Hell, we HAVE a baseball team, and one of our four teams is legitimately good.

Back then, we had nothing, unless you count soccer, which I don't, and even they had bad years in '02 and '03. Thank God I was in college and had a supply of booze and women to help me forget.

[ixcuincle]

Michael Jordan playing for the Wizards was one of the best memories of that timeframe. A lot of people say he was washed up, but you tell me some 40 year old putting up 40 points nearly every night was washed up. Man he could ball even at his age. No other 40 year old put up as many 40 point games as MJ.

He was a horrible GM but on the court he balled well. Too bad those teams never made the playoffs lol

Who puts up 40 points at age 39?

[China]

This seems like the dark period for DC sports. With the exception of the Caps, the other teams are going through horrible times.

The Redskins just went through their worst season since 1994 when they were 3-13. The last two seasons have been tough on Redskin fans. After a great 6-2 start for Jim Zorn, he finished his Redskin career on a 6-18 tailspin. From the horrible Monday Nighter against Pittsburgh last year, to losing to the Lions who hadn't won in over a year, going 0-6 in the division, the horrible fake FG against the Giants, it was bad for the Redskins.

Then there are the Wizards. A team that many thought would be competitive this year and be a top team in the NBA. Well, they got off to a poor start and now it appears this are only getting worse. Arguably losing their best player, Gilbert Arenas, because he thinks its ok to store guns in the locker room and then pull them out in a joke on a teammate. The Wizards are stuck at the bottom of the East and it doesn't look like things will be getting any better this year. Maybe releasing Gilbert would be the best thing that could happen to them.

Finally, there are the Nationals. The Nats are coming off back-to-back 100 loss seasons. We all remember the "Natinals" moment and how bad that looked. Their play on the field wasn't much better. They did string together a big winning streak in the 2nd half, but that was about it. A lineup that doesn't have many stars might have gotten their biggest in the draft this year, Strausburg. The Nats have been through alot the last few years, the whole GM debacle wasn't what they needed. Things can only go up for them it seems.

The Nats and Redskins appear to have some hope in the future. Maybe if the Wizards start making some moves before the deadline to get rid of some of their bigger salaries. These certainly seem like tough times for DC sports fans, thank God for the Capitals!

Well you mention 1994. The Redskins were worse, 3-13. The Caps weren't as good as they are now and blew a 3-1 series lead to the Penguins in the playoffs. The Wizards (then Bullets) were horrible and went 21-61. There was no baseball team to root for unless you were an Orioles fan, and even then the baseball season was cancelled, so nothing there. So while it seems bad, it could be and has been worse.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Die-hard hockey fans are like fans of a semi-popular indie band.

They want you to acknowledge the greatness of their sport, damn it.

Tennis fans never yell at anyone.

[Sticksboi05]

Um 70s and 80s caps team generally blew hard. How would you know about the Cap Centre? Been there? I know I never saw a game there.

Hockey in general is a cult following. The fans are super passionate and follow even though the head commish is a moron, their are lockouts, and it is usually a 2nd tier sport anywhere in US besides Boston, Minnesota, etc.

Caps are building a bigger fanbase due to winning and having the best player in the NHL. It helps that Skins are doing worse but most hockey fans are not basketball fans and vice versa.

So making the playoffs 14 seasons in a row from 1983 on is "blowing hard"?....Ok. Granted there were alot of Penguin choke jobs in there but still, better than the Wizards/Bullets could ever do.

How do I know? From the stories of people who actually went there, seeing old video footage of playoff games, interviews with former players...

Did I not state specifically that the Caps were getting a new fan generation because they are winning and because every other D.C. team sucks?

[skinstzar]

I'm not taking anything away from the Caps, but DC has never been a big hockey town. It seems like the Caps was more like a cult following. But now they are the big ticket in DC. Lots of Redskin players have been seen at Caps games recently. If the Skins, Nats, and Wiz don't get things turned around, DC could very well be a hockey town.

I think this statement is false, Of course football and basketball are the top two sports as far as number of fans in this town. This town however has almost always supported it's hockey team. I've been going to games since 1984 and the Capital Centre/Verizon Center has always been a great place to watch a game. Those who are hockey fans are knowledgeable, loud and proud. There was the time period around the turn of the century when hockey lost a lot of support. That was a Hockey thing partially. The strike effected the NHL and it's fan levels across the continent.

This is a hockey town, it has been for a while and will be for a long time to come. The pure volume of fans though will never overcome the NFL, MLB or NBA. Show me one place in the US outside of Minnesota where that is the case.

As for the overall state of sports in this town, it's cloudy with a chance of sunlight. The Caps and Nationals will be making waves for years to come.

[hockeysc23]

So making the playoffs 14 seasons in a row from 1983 on is "blowing hard"?....Ok. Granted there were alot of Penguin choke jobs in there but still, better than the Wizards/Bullets could ever do.

How do I know? From the stories of people who actually went there, seeing old video footage of playoff games, interviews with former players...

Did I not state specifically that the Caps were getting a new fan generation because they are winning and because every other D.C. team sucks?

I think you have my confused with someone else because I didn't say blowing hard.

Stories are great but you or I never stepped foot in that arena so its a little hard to tell. And given the "success" the Caps had in the arena I wouldn't say it was a great home ice advantage.

Playoffs are a little easier to get into with hockey anyways. And at the end of the day you are measured by championships you win. All of the early exits and bad playoff series didn't help grow the Caps. 1998 did but unfortunately they couldn't capitalize on it.

Hopefully this is a new leaf with the Caps. As long as I don't get priced out of the arena .. bring on more Cap fans.

[RedskinsNation]

If the Skins were in the playoffs and the Wizards were winning the Caps would definitely be on the backburner.

This will always be a football town...Fed Ex still sells out no matter how crappy the Skins are. The Caps would never be able to say the same. 5 years ago the Verizon Center was a ghost town when it came to hockey.

So true. And people forget the Caps went to the playoffs FOURTEEN STRAIGHT YEARS in the 80's/90's.....the fan base should be huge regardless of Ovie or not. I just fear if the Caps falter in the playoffs people will start trashing them and will act like they dont give a damm like they are some bandwagon fans.

It helped that the Caps struck gold with Ovie. The Caps have evolved into the Cavs of the NBA. Once proud franchises that went dormant for long stretches and were nothings. The Caps have capitilized on some great draft picks in addition to OVIE and that has what has put them in position to win the whole thing.

[ceviker]

Anyone who says Washington is not a hockey town now clearly has never been on F street on game nights. The Caps sell out every game. They had the second highest attendence in the entire NHL (including Canada, only 2nd to Chicago) last year. I don't think there is a stadium that gets louder than Verizon in the entire NHL (commentators have made that point before as well). There is a sea of red during every home game. Just because a person doesn't watch hockey doesn't mean that the city is not a hockey town.

Is it a football town first, foremost and historically? Yes. Would it have been a football town if the Redskins never won the Super Bowl and the Caps had won 3 stanley cups? I'm pretty sure the roles would have been reversed.

This was the first year for as long as I can remember (possibly ever) that Redskins tickets were selling WAY below face for every game and Caps tickets are above face for just about every game.

Chances are, the Caps will win AT LEAST one Cup before the Skins win a Super Bowl. If the Caps bring home the cup, its going to be Caps fever for the next decade. If the Caps win 2 or more cups... one can only imagine.

People forget that the Caps have historically had a great fan base. Its only after the Jagr debacle (coupled with the looming NHL lock-out) that there were a couple seasons of empty seats all over the place.

[afkidd]

This is a hockey town, it has been for a while and will be for a long time to come. The pure volume of fans though will never overcome the NFL, MLB or NBA. Show me one place in the US outside of Minnesota where that is the case.

i don't have any stats to back me up, but basically every person i've met from michigan has been a red wing fan (military, was stationed with like 15 of them last year), and while they root for the pistons, lions, and tigers, it's sacrilege when you talk bad about the wings, the others they don't care about.

and the verizon center is packed on game nights for the caps...for the wizards, the upper deck is maybe half full. MAYBE. The MONDAY nighter against the Giants at fed ex, the upper deck was maybe half full. The skins and wizards suck. the caps are the only good thing here.

[hockeysc23]

i don't have any stats to back me up, but basically every person i've met from michigan has been a red wing fan (military, was stationed with like 15 of them last year).

and the verizon center is packed on game nights for the caps...for the wizards, the upper deck is maybe half full. MAYBE. The MONDAY nighter against the Giants at fed ex, the upper deck was maybe half full. The skins and wizards suck. the caps are the only good thing here.

Winning multiple stanley cups, and the tradition of the Wings have kept virtually everyone being a Red Wings fan.

Yes the Caps had 14 straight seasons but unless progress is made fans lose interest.

NFL is setup to be the dominate sports league in most cities as long as they can win occasionally. The scarce amount of product (8 actual home games that matter) makes everyone rare and is something that most casual fans can follow.

Sports like hockey need to be seen live, although HD is helping. Football might actually be more enjoyable on TV save for the tailgating fun so its easier for the casual fan to chime in once a week for 16 weeks.

[afkidd]

Winning multiple stanley cups, and the tradition of the Wings have kept virtually everyone being a Red Wings fan.

Yes the Caps had 14 straight seasons but unless progress is made fans lose interest.

im just saying that hockey is bigger then most people think. and it's definately better then both the bballs. plus, who else throws a squid onto the playing surface.

[hockeysc23]

im just saying that hockey is bigger then most people think. and it's definately better then both the bballs. plus, who else throws a squid onto the playing surface.

I love having to explain that tradition to people. I wish they would still let them do it on a consistent basis. Although the plastic rats in Florida was awesome.

I've take several football only type fans to Caps games this year and now they all want to talk Caps all the time. I remember when getting a jersey for xmas of the Caps was close to impossible. My grandmother had to drive to MD to find one.

Is this a bandwagon effect? Mostly, but that's how you attract fans that don't grow up skating on ponds during the winter. Hockey's high cost keeps most people from playing the sport and appreciating it.

Hopefully the Caps can become the go to team in DC. I'd rather hear Ovie is captain, and our prospect scored the GWG vs. Canada as the first news story rather than the next HC.

[Sticksboi05]

I think you have my confused with someone else because I didn't say blowing hard.

Stories are great but you or I never stepped foot in that arena so its a little hard to tell. And given the "success" the Caps had in the arena I wouldn't say it was a great home ice advantage.

Playoffs are a little easier to get into with hockey anyways. And at the end of the day you are measured by championships you win. All of the early exits and bad playoff series didn't help grow the Caps. 1998 did but unfortunately they couldn't capitalize on it.

Hopefully this is a new leaf with the Caps. As long as I don't get priced out of the arena .. bring on more Cap fans.

1) You did indeed say "70's and 80's Caps teams blew hard"

2) So I guess I also cannot say the Boston Garden was a big advantage since I've never been and now can't.

3) Yes they are but I was comparing them to the just as easy to get into the playoffs NBA team.

4) Exactly. Like I said, when the Caps bring home a couple Cups they'll have the legacy to sell out for the rest of the decade if it happens.

5) And they did have "success". Alot of the best teams we've fielded were 80's teams. The 70's we weren't good but we were an expansion team.

6) And yes, the more fans the merrier, as long as they don't back out on the team.

[hockeysc23]

1) You did indeed say "70's and 80's Caps teams blew hard"

You are correct. Sorry about that. Don't even remember writing that. Long day.

I don't have the stats but was the home winning percentage for the Caps Centre? That would give statistical evidence to someone that never attended games there rather than just 2nd hand someone said we had great home ice advantage.

When your 19-25 and havent witnessed games at a particular location .. speaking as a expert in the field doesn't come off well.